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Posted: 8/19/2004 4:27:02 AM EST
I have a slab-side and was just wondering
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 4:35:46 AM EST
yeah
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 4:38:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 4:39:12 AM EST by Yojimbo]
I've never used the forward assist because I needed to but I've used it out of habit when doing certain administrative functions such as loading the weapon or when doing the S.P.O.R.T.S. IAD.

I also find that as work to optimize my gun handling skills that I'm moving away from using the forward assist... These days the IAD of choice is the T.R.R.S(Tap, Roll, Rack, Shoot) or better yet a transition to the secondary weapon.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 4:49:55 AM EST
all the time for chamber checks.

Now I'll wait for the usual MORONS to come into the thread with the "Why would I want to Jam a bad round in even further" argument.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 5:23:46 AM EST
I use it mainly to close the bolt when I load the weapon and don't want the bolt to drop forcefully. You can load the gun very quietly by easing the bolt home then using the FA to push it forward and lock it into place. I wouldn't own an AR without one.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 5:30:53 AM EST
Yes, If you have ever been in the Military then you have had to do S.P.O.R.T.S. I find it very usefull, especially if your over in the snadbox.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 5:32:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By markm:
all the time for chamber checks.

Now I'll wait for the usual MORONS to come into the thread with the "Why would I want to Jam a bad round in even further" argument.



PRESENT, SIR!!!

There's a slight difference between a "tap" to ensure a fully seated a bolt and "hammering" a balky cartridge into place.

Since all my shooting has been "recreational," I prefer to extract a reluctant round, examine it and the weapon, to figure out why the malfunction happened. Those that use their rifles for serious purposes, and train accordingly, will use different methods, I'm sure.



Lonny
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 5:32:42 AM EST
Yes when doing a press cheack.
NoKarma
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:11:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 9:09:34 AM EST by JHaines]
In the Marine Corps I used the FA all the time for immediate action drills.
If I remember correctly: Tap, Wrack, Bang.

Tap - the forward assist (the magazine ?)
Wrack - the charging handle.
Bang - fire the weapon.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:18:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 6:19:01 AM EST by M4Guru]
Don't you wanna Tap again before Bang?

I use mine all the time, like they said, for chamber checks or SPORTapSqueeze
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:18:47 AM EST
Yes...
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:28:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 6:29:26 AM EST by mongo001]
I noticed that my bro-in-law, an ex-Marine, always taps the FA after he actuates the bolt release on a new mag. Is this trained or something he developed on his own - I don't know.

Sometimes I get sick of repeating this story, but I never really do. Pfc Miller, one of the soldiers in the infamous Jessica Lynch ambush, was fighting off Iraqis with his M16, which was so gummed up with sand and grit, that he had to chamber each round with his FA, effectively turning his M16 into a single shot rifle. He reportedly killed 7-9 Iraqis who were trying to mortar his position before he was captured.

Armchair commandos, with their pristine safe queens, shooting in sterile range conditions will rarely find a need for the FA. Step into the real world of combat and you will find it is a different story. I don't know from experience, I know from reading real combat stories and talking to combat veterans - my step-bro and my bro-in-law, both who served in the sandbox.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:34:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 9:08:54 AM EST by JHaines]

Originally Posted By M4Guru:
Don't you wanna Tap again before Bang?



It's been over a decade....pardon the cobwebas.
Maybe that was:
Tap: - the Magazine
Wrack: - the Charging Handle
Bang: - fire the rifle.
<shrug>

Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:42:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By xcpd69:

Originally Posted By markm:
all the time for chamber checks.

Now I'll wait for the usual MORONS to come into the thread with the "Why would I want to Jam a bad round in even further" argument.



PRESENT, SIR!!!

There's a slight difference between a "tap" to ensure a fully seated a bolt and "hammering" a balky cartridge into place.

Since all my shooting has been "recreational," I prefer to extract a reluctant round, examine it and the weapon, to figure out why the malfunction happened. Those that use their rifles for serious purposes, and train accordingly, will use different methods, I'm sure.



Lonny



The point is that there are lots of uses for the FA that don't involve "hammering" a round into place. I had a Lo-Pro without a FA, and I hated it. No chamber checks, no riding the bolt home (it sucks when charging the weapon is louder than shooting with a can!), etc.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:42:56 AM EST
Slap the bottom of the magazine.
Pull the charging handle.
Observe the open chamber area.
Release the charging handle.
Tap the forward assist.
Shoot.



Lonny
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:46:58 AM EST
I stilll find myself hitting the forward assist sometimes. (Old habits are hard to break) If you are getting at the need for a FA, I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Also there are all those other generic reasons about quiet chambering and what not. (SPORTS is good)hug.gif
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:49:55 AM EST
I tried hitting the FA after installing a double sided single point sling plate on my rifle and found it dont work too good gonna have to get out the dremmel and do some work to get it right now...
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:50:34 AM EST
S.P.O.R.T.S!?! God, what terrible memories that brings back. I give my FA a good tap every time out of beaten-in-to-the-brain habit. If its second nature then you won't forget it in desperate times. Why the question though? Its the way the weapon was designed to be operated. When was the last time someone questioned why you have to press the brake to shift out of park?
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:55:52 AM EST
All the time. It's a ingrained habit from immeadiate action drills.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:04:48 AM EST

I'm thinking about putting a 9mm forward assist, or an AR-10 forward assist on my slabside.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:05:19 AM EST
I can remember having to use it in basic training to get the weapon to chamber a round, but haven't used it since. I suppose that I don't put enough ammo through my ARs during my range sessions to need it. I better start shooting more and cleaning less.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:06:29 AM EST
Yes.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 9:12:59 AM EST
I've never "needed" to use the FA, but I "thumb" it constantly.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 9:31:06 AM EST
I have a bunch of times...the last one I did took a perfect circle of skin off to the flesh where I slaped it forward on my palm.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 9:34:52 AM EST
Yes, it's a habit.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:02:50 AM EST
well, I'v got a slabside - what do i do? Should I worry?
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:02:01 AM EST
Yes.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:10:08 AM EST
Well, don't roll around in the sand or dirt. Otherwise you're SOL. Seriously, I would not get worked up for a rifle you shoot for recreation.

Me personally, I want the FA just in case. I have had a few rounds that needed just a nudge to get 'em locked in and I've been beating it into my own head to give the FA a tap when I load. I'd look kinda funny now if I were to use a slab side.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 1:37:28 PM EST
Yup, a few times. Sometimes I even do it without thinking. Whenever I am hunting and realize the first shot is a must I do it just to make sure. Then I look at the bolt and tap again. Hmm.. maybe I am a bit compulsive eh?
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 3:25:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:
well, I'v got a slabside - what do i do? Should I worry?



It isn't an issue on the 9mm AR's, and it isn't an issue on the .308 (AR-10 type) AR's. Why worry about it with a 5.56mm AR? Healthy clean rifle and healthy clean ammo.







One of my friends and I both have slabside/ slick sides. They are ultra sweet, and have had no problems. In thousands and thousands of rounds fired over the past nine years with this rifle type I've never had a problem where the solution was the forward assist.

I find it very unlikely that I can generate enough energy with the forward assist to compare with the buffer action spring.

I do use the Forward assist for brass checks on other AR rifles, but on my slabside/slickside I can still do brass checks without it. So the forward assist is nice feature to have, but is never an excuse for clean and healthy rifle/ ammo.


Link Posted: 8/19/2004 4:24:45 PM EST
Yes, I have had to use the forward assist n my rifle in combat. If it wasn't there I could have been in some really deep shit.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:22:32 PM EST
Another vote for yes - needed it/used it/worked. Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:31:13 PM EST
Yes.

And... S.P.O.R.T.S. is still drilled into my head.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:33:35 PM EST
Hehehe... I never really thought about it, but after I release the bolt on a magazine of rounds, I always tap the FA without even thinking about it.

Yes, they taught us that in the Marines.

Link Posted: 8/20/2004 2:11:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 2:42:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By tfod:

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:
well, I'v got a slabside - what do i do? Should I worry?



It isn't an issue on the 9mm AR's, and it isn't an issue on the .308 (AR-10 type) AR's. Why worry about it with a 5.56mm AR? Healthy clean rifle and healthy clean ammo.

www.rockriverarms.com/images/9ua2.gif

www.armalite.com/shared/images/10a2_topend.gif

www.knightarmco.com/images/62003/SR-25_RAS_Lightweight_Match_Rifle.jpg

One of my friends and I both have slabside/ slick sides. They are ultra sweet, and have had no problems. In thousands and thousands of rounds fired over the past nine years with this rifle type I've never had a problem where the solution was the forward assist.

I find it very unlikely that I can generate enough energy with the forward assist to compare with the buffer action spring.

I do use the Forward assist for brass checks on other AR rifles, but on my slabside/slickside I can still do brass checks without it. So the forward assist is nice feature to have, but is never an excuse for clean and healthy rifle/ ammo.





Use of the buffer spring requires you to pull the bolt carrier rearward, and let it slam forward - you don't always want to feed a round that loud, or force a double feed (unless you remove your mag) in the even that you ride it forward and it does not lock into battery.

Those rifles you mention do not have forward assists because ot makes them cost less to build, period. They are not weapons - anyone who would use them as such is putting themselves at a disadvantage.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:45:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 7:00:26 AM EST by tfod]

Originally Posted By Adam_White:


Use of the buffer spring requires you to pull the bolt carrier rearward, and let it slam forward - you don't always want to feed a round that loud, or force a double feed (unless you remove your mag) in the even that you ride it forward and it does not lock into battery.

Those rifles you mention do not have forward assists because ot makes them cost less to build, period. They are not weapons - anyone who would use them as such is putting themselves at a disadvantage.



The thought never occured to me that KAC was interested in cost control. Cost for an AR-15 forward assist from Rock River arms is about $12 dollars.

I feed a round with full force letting the bolt go home by pressing the bolt catch. always have, always will. Going into a hostile situation with an unloaded weapon is either Hollywood tactics or an oops. Do you keep your pistols unloaded so that you can chamber a cartridge when you need to fire the weapon?

I don't know where you come off with the idea a functioning AR-type isn't a weapon? That is an ignorant comment.

Link Posted: 8/20/2004 7:27:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 8:18:44 AM EST by Leisure_Shoot]

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:
well, I'v got a slabside - what do i do? Should I worry?



If it bothers you, or if you just want to do something "gunsmith-like"
buy a new A2 for $140 or Flat Top for $90 (ADCO price) from RRA and a barrel wrench for $35.

Unless you are having problems, or plan on going on some commando missions, it should be OK the way it is.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 7:44:10 AM EST
yup....several times on several diff. weapons......now its just habbit.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:59:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By joker581:
Yes, I have had to use the forward assist n my rifle in combat. If it wasn't there I could have been in some really deep shit.



And there you go folks.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 1:40:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By tfod:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:


Use of the buffer spring requires you to pull the bolt carrier rearward, and let it slam forward - you don't always want to feed a round that loud, or force a double feed (unless you remove your mag) in the even that you ride it forward and it does not lock into battery.

Those rifles you mention do not have forward assists because ot makes them cost less to build, period. They are not weapons - anyone who would use them as such is putting themselves at a disadvantage.



The thought never occured to me that KAC was interested in cost control. Cost for an AR-15 forward assist from Rock River arms is about $12 dollars.

I feed a round with full force letting the bolt go home by pressing the bolt catch. always have, always will. Going into a hostile situation with an unloaded weapon is either Hollywood tactics or an oops. Do you keep your pistols unloaded so that you can chamber a cartridge when you need to fire the weapon?

I don't know where you come off with the idea a functioning AR-type isn't a weapon? That is an ignorant comment.




You speak like a man who has never met Murphy. This tells me that you either have never ZERO military or law enforcement experience - or are VERY lucky. FWIW, I would press check all of my pistols befor an op as well - but with the slide exposed, it is easy to make sure it return to batter. an AR bolt carrier can only be pulled backward by the charging handle - not pushed forward - thus common sense dictates another means to insure complete chambering.

Do you never pull your bolt back to insure a round chambered? Would you rather wait until you need to shoot to live? It aint Hollywood - get a clue.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 3:24:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 3:25:20 PM EST by tfod]

Originally Posted By Adam_White:


You speak like a man who has never met Murphy. This tells me that you either have never ZERO military or law enforcement experience - or are VERY lucky. FWIW, I would press check all of my pistols befor an op as well - but with the slide exposed, it is easy to make sure it return to batter. an AR bolt carrier can only be pulled backward by the charging handle - not pushed forward - thus common sense dictates another means to insure complete chambering.

Do you never pull your bolt back to insure a round chambered? Would you rather wait until you need to shoot to live? It aint Hollywood - get a clue.



I guess I'm just lucky then? I can live with lucky. I'm not fighting a war here. The question was asked if anyone ever HAD to use their forward assist, I have never HAD to use my forward assist. I have never HAD to use the forward assist to clear a jam in my rifle. On a healthy rifle with healthy ammunition (healthy=good quality, in-spec, maintained, reasonably clean) I have never seen a problem solved by the forward assist.

I have a rifle with a forward assist. I have never had to use the forward assist. I am honestly citing my experience with the rifle. I have found that in my experience all the problems I have seen were extraction problems including poorly cycling. I had to nock out a stuck (unfired) cartridge out of another’s rifle (with a cleaning rod) because it was too dirty to extract(unhealthy rifle). I have had to nock fired brass out of another’s chamber with a cleaning rod because the chamber was out of spec.

If I am ever unfortunate enough to be required to use the AR-15 as a weapon it will be coming from a clean environment (car, truck, house, hiking…) into use. I’m not seeping in fighting holes or humping in mud.

You do what you need to do stay alive, and do your job. Just remember slick-sided AR-types are rifles and if you have difficulty with that, let someone else search the prisoners/ detainees/ suspects/. Even shitty handguns like Lorcin’s, Jennings… Ravens are still weapons; even if you wouldn’t personally field something into a hostile situation it can still kill you.


BeetleBailey-
F.Y.I. you can heck to see if a cartridge has fed from the magazine on a slick-side if you want to, before you head out. It is a staggered magazine.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:41:05 PM EST
Yes.

This one time we had a case of German beer and no bottle opener.

Forward assist really paid off that night.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 6:11:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Halfcocked:
Yes.

This one time we had a case of German beer and no bottle opener.

Forward assist really paid off that night.



No one ever mentioned it could be used to open beer. I'm sold on the forward assist. Which is better for opening beer, the teardrop or the round forward assist?

Now that I'm sold on the forward assist , which is better, the tear drop, or the round?
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