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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/19/2005 11:35:54 AM EDT
If so, what type of ammo and rifle?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:37:18 AM EDT
HECK NO!

My buddy had one with his DR200 just as I was returning to the firing line from down range! Talk about a thriller!
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:39:58 AM EDT
thankfully, no.

I only use factory ammo.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:40:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 11:45:18 AM EDT by graywolf]
yes,,, I put a jewell trigger in my bushmaster, set it to light and it will slam fire...not a good thing
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:44:11 AM EDT
I used to get slamfires with my model 63 but I retired the gun so it doesn't happen any more. I think slamfire would be a definate sign that the shooter needs to go to gun cleaning school. I'm crazy about gun safety much more so than most people I go with and if someone slamfired in my presence it would be the last round through that gun before it gets inspected and cleaned. If I see a slamfire at the local range I go home.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:53:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By graywolf:
yes,,, I put a jewell trigger in my bushmaster, set it to light and it will slam fire...




that's not a slam fire, a slam fire is when the fireing pin sets off a round by either haveing a soft primer of the pin is gooked up and protruding. this is a link to fulton armory and what they had to say

A "Slam Fire" is simply the condition when a round is discharged without the normal firing mechanism being employed. Slam Fires may be caused by a broken/protruding firing pin, foreign matter on the bolt face, firing pin intertia, or other means. A Slam Fire may occur *in* or *out of* battery. In the first case, we have a truly Accidental (in contrast to a Negligent) Discharge with little or no potential harm to the shooter. In the latter, the breech is unlocked and *very* bad things can happen.
To be truly pendantic, there are those firearms that depend on "slam fire" for functioning, typically subguns such as the M1A1 Thompson. The firing pin is a bump on the bolt face.
In conclusion, where M1s, M14s and M16s are concerned, lighter firing pins are better, and use Mil-Spec primers. link

Slam Fire: a Parable...
During the development of the M16, field testing revealed an unexpected tendency to slam fire, that is, for the cartridge being chambered to discharge without the trigger having been pulled. Needless to say, this created much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the Technical Coordinating Committee. Since Secretary McNamara had been led to believe that the M16 was a fully developed weapon system, the fault had to lie with the ammunition.
Thus the Remington executive was brought forth and mightly chastised for the high crime and misdemeanor, "high primers." When the Remington man revealed that examination of tens of thousands of cartridges revealed no high primers, and that were the fault to be with the primer height one would expect out-of-battery fires rather than slam fires, he was told, "never mind."
Then Springfield Armory did a kinetic analysis and Lo! The firing pin inertial energy was 10 inch pounds! And the specified "no fire" energy level for the primer was 6 inch pounds! And the multitude stood in wonder, wondering why the d*mn thing didn't slam fire every time!
But, the M16 was a fully developed weapon system, so the primer, it must be changed! Only after a yield analysis revealed a potential 90% scrap rate with the new spec, was that avenue abandoned.
And in the end, Colt lightened the firing pin, and all was well again. Until Ball Powder, but that is another story.
Oh, and in 1941 Springfield Armory lightened the M1 Rifle firing pin. That couldn't have been to reduce slam fires, could it? link

I've shot semi and fullauto's, never have I had a slam fire useing wolf or q3131, and q3131a

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:11:27 PM EDT
I had one slamfire a couple of weekends ago. This occurred in a Bushmaster CMP model that had maybe 20 rounds through it since its last thorough cleaning. The rifle has a Jewell trigger set to roughly 4 1/2 pounds. I think this rifle has a titanium firing pin from the factory.
I was shooting offhand and single loading by holding the rifle at a 45 degree angle downward, dropping a round into the chamber and then hitting the bolt release. Several rounds into the string and BAM... the bullet went into the ground several feet in front of me. An empty 20 rd magazine was in the rifle during the incident.
Ammunition consisted of handloads with CCI commercial primers. Cases were full length resized and were checked for high primers at time of loading. Rounds stripped from the mag into the chamber and then ejected without firing exhibit a small dimple in the primer.
The rifle was not on SAFE at the time of the slamfire, however I feel sure that I did not touch the trigger since I try to go through the exact same motions every time I fire and the rifle did go off as soon as I touched the bolt release. (The rifle will not fire if the bolt is released while the trigger is pulled.)
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:20:25 PM EDT
Never with my ARs , a couple of times with my SKS though.

Always pointed down range so no danger in a range environment.


GM
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:43:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dangasaur:
definate



Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:46:21 PM EDT
Nope, but I've seen one happen due to a *shattered* firing pin. Too much dry firing, I suppose.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 8:17:52 PM EDT
Never had one, but I assume one will happen every time I close the bolt. Better safe and really friggin' sorry.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 3:13:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By magneto:
I had one slamfire a couple of weekends ago. This occurred in a Bushmaster CMP model that had maybe 20 rounds through it since its last thorough cleaning. The rifle has a Jewell trigger set to roughly 4 1/2 pounds. I think this rifle has a titanium firing pin from the factory.
I was shooting offhand and single loading by holding the rifle at a 45 degree angle downward, dropping a round into the chamber and then hitting the bolt release. Several rounds into the string and BAM... the bullet went into the ground several feet in front of me. An empty 20 rd magazine was in the rifle during the incident.
Ammunition consisted of handloads with CCI commercial primers. Cases were full length resized and were checked for high primers at time of loading. Rounds stripped from the mag into the chamber and then ejected without firing exhibit a small dimple in the primer.
The rifle was not on SAFE at the time of the slamfire, however I feel sure that I did not touch the trigger since I try to go through the exact same motions every time I fire and the rifle did go off as soon as I touched the bolt release. (The rifle will not fire if the bolt is released while the trigger is pulled.)



We have a similar setup, only I have a WOA upper and WOA 2 stage trigger. I have had this happen twice in the last 2K rounds. Both times were with CCI primers. Both times were within 50 rounds of a thorough bolt cleaning.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 3:44:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By magneto:
Ammunition consisted of handloads with CCI commercial primers. Cases were full length resized and were checked for high primers at time of loading. Rounds stripped from the mag into the chamber and then ejected without firing exhibit a small dimple in the primer.



Be aware when reloading that although your rounds are all checked for "high" primers depending on the condition of your brass this "seated" primer condition can change while shooting.

A "loose" primer pocket (which is not uncommon, especially in my once fired Remington & LC brass, purchased commercially) can be a result of that piece of brass being fired as a factory "proof" load.

I have on occassions found that the recoil of previous rounds in the magazine has caused a primer to fall completely out of the brass, dumping powder ever-where, (in the magazine, down into the trigger area, you name it). This same condition has on rare occassions, I believe, lead to the condition you have experienced, (save rifle was benched at the time, pointed safely downrange), in that although I too check for "high-primers", which can always lead to the incidental slam-fire, it does happen.

One of the best reasons to "Always make certain rfle is pointed in a safe direction".

I would not neccessarily blame the CCI primer, as it could be ya just got a piece of brass with a "loose" pocket, which allowed the primer to shift it's position.

Although we try to be diligent when reloading and I am always paying attention to the "pressure" involved at the "priming" stage when reloading, (tossing any suspect piece of brass should it not feel right), shit does happen and a round w/ a loose primer pocket can get by even the most vigilant of reloaders.

Other than "broken" parts issues mentioned above these are probably the most common 2 reasons slam-fires can occur and generally happen to those who reload, "high primer" or a "loose primer pocket" resulting in it's shifting.

Mike
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 4:12:18 AM EDT

Although we try to be diligent when reloading and I am always paying attention to the "pressure" involved at the "priming" stage when reloading, (tossing any suspect piece of brass should it not feel right), shit does happen and a round w/ a loose primer pocket can get by even the most vigilant of reloaders.



Excellent advice and something that I really haven't considered. I have noticed that the insertion force in some pieces of my Winchester .223 brass is much lower than normal. I will discard these cases in the future. I haven't noticed any loose primer pockets in my .308 IMI brass.

I have shot thousands of rounds through my M1As without a slamfire however I always let the bolt strip the round from the magazine instead of dropping the round directly into the chamber with these rifles. The stripping action slows the bolt down enough to minimize the potential for slamfire.

Is it standard practice when single loading an AR to drop the round directly into the chamber and then drop the bolt? It doesn't affect the slamfire potential however do you flip the safety on when loading in this manner?
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 4:14:29 AM EDT
Oh . . . you meant in my RIFLE . . . . .
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 4:35:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By magneto:
Is it standard practice when single loading an AR to drop the round directly into the chamber and then drop the bolt? It doesn't affect the slamfire potential however do you flip the safety on when loading in this manner?



I use a "sled", (USGI 20 rounder w/ Sinclar single loading follower), drop the round onto the sled and hit the bolt release. Bolt pushes round into the chamber.

No, my safety is not normally "ON".

Mike
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 11:19:27 AM EDT
My friend DPMS LR .308 had a slam fire problem. His gun was serial number in the 20's so it had to be because it was a new gun/new DPMS .308 product.

However, I helped him sight in the .308 with a Leupold scope. The safety was on, and I loaded 2 rounds into the mag. I inserted the mag, press the bolt release and the gun fired.
It happened too more times that day.

My friend took the gun back to the gun shop where he bought it, the owner called DPMS to report the problem. DPMS was going to send a guy to the shop to pick up the rifle, but the owner shipped it to DPMS.

A week later the rifle was shipped back, with a new upper and four extra mags. The has never been another problem with the rifle. And I was glad to see DPMS stand behind their products.


I had another slamfire with my uncle's HK 940 30'06 hunting rifle. Same kind of deal. It can be scary...and that it is a good reminder why we always need to keep the muzzle pointed down range.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 11:49:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
HECK NO!

My buddy had one with his DR200 just as I was returning to the firing line from down range! Talk about a thriller!




No one should be touching firearms while the line is cold! That is just not smart. When the line is cold mags out bolts open and no touching!
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 11:55:10 AM EDT
I had a soldier in Iraq slam his M16 on the ground and it went off right next to my foot. I almost shot the asshat.
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