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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/22/2005 10:56:03 PM EDT
Hello All,

Google has been no help in this matter. Here's the short,-short version: Does anyone know if H&K originally attempted the High Reliability magazine w/ an aluminum body? For the longer explanation, see below...

In September of '04, I had a friend who sells surplus @ gun shows give me what appeared to me the HK High Reliability Magazine. All black body, steel chrome follower, longer body than standard USGI and the floor plate mounts via an "ear less" mag body via two tabs one front & one back. Anyhow, he gave me this mag and I figured it to be a steel mag body. The magazine had been used- but for free I'll take anything. I took it home and it was a few days later I noticed the body was cracked in two places. Both feed lips were cracked high up at the back of the mag feed lips. Basically it had horizontal cracks a 1/4" long about in line with the bolt hold open tab on the back of the follower. (Hope that paints a clear picture) The easiest way to describe it is that the original Colt 20 round magazine feed lips are "open" at the back whereas this magazine is closed at the back just like the "for sure" H&K steel mags & it is at this point the mag cracked.

I told my buddy at the next gun show that while I appreciated the free mag, I noticed it was broken. He said he was going to get some more and he'd give me another. We met up at a gun show earlier this month and he gave me 1 to replace the broken freebie and sold me 4 more of the HK High Reliability Magazines. It was then, holding these genuine HK marked High Reliability Magazines that I realized the mag he originally gave me was not what it appeared...

The magazine he originally gave me had no H&K or LE/MIL markings. (Note, he gave me the magazine the weekend after the ban ended. It was obviously made during the ban) The only markings on it appear vertically on the left side of the mag towards the bottom and read:

5.56MM
IF

Here's the part that baffles me- the body is aluminum. Compared to a an H&K LE/Mil marked High Reliability Magazine it's nearly identical. The follower, floor plate, spring are all the same. The only difference is Aluminum body and a tad bit more of the body is bent in an overhang at the top of the mag in front of the feed lips. (Probably clear as mud as well)

So my question is... Does anyone know if H&K originally attempted to use an aluminum body for the High Reliability magazine and then abandoned this design opting instead to go w/ steel

I'm thinking of grinding the back of the feed lips of this suspected H&K mag to be identical to the original Colt 20rd so I can use it, but I understand that some folks w/ the BRD are also hard core collectors of magazine and if there is value in this magazine, I do not wish to commit sacrilege.

Any imput is appreciated.

Sly
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 12:57:26 PM EDT
Are you interested in selling it?
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 3:04:20 PM EDT
I know the ones I have run across could not be described as such. They worked great, and were "pimp tight" but for the price of 1 I can get 4 USGI...

My advice is "when in doubt..." hang on to it if you have any doubts.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 3:07:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By humzai:
Are you interested in selling it?



Maybe...

Basically by it's appearance I'm fairly certain it's H&K, but I have no knowledge of it's existence beyond the one in my possession. While I do have a large "collection" of magazines, I don't collect for the sake of it. They all will be used hence my limited array only includes Circle K, Colt and H&K mags. Since this mag is A) odd & B) Perhaps desirable by someone who would want one just as a specimen, I'm in a bit of limbo here. As I own mags to use em' I'm tempted to WESCOG the mag to working order, but on the other hand this site is all about sharing information and I've seen some awesome pics & read of AR magazines I'd never heard of before. It's in recognition of those folks who possess and share informtaion on rare and odd magazines that I don't wish to alter this mag if someone has interest as a specimen.

The intent of my post is to ascertain what the mag is. It's disposition can be determined after the identity has been confirmed. My brother should be back from Iraq next month and he's got a digi camera. If no one comes along w/ definitive information, I'll post a pic later. (Like in the next few weeks) I'm just assuming there's folks out there with more knowledge on HK gear than myself and perhaps they know of this variation.

So in regards to selling the magazine- that's a possibility but not my focus at this time.

Sly
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:46:40 AM EDT
Two things:
One, Okay industries did, at least briefly, make a "high reliability" magazine that was aluminium- but I think the dimensions/shape were basically identical to a USGI mag- so this probably isn't that.

Two, I'll bet what you have is an old H&K HK41 mag- they produced thier own mag for the H&K41 waay back in the day which, as I understand it, is basically identical to the "new" high reliability mags.. I don't know what they were made from but aluminium wouldn't be a crazy idea. SMGLee had at least one of these mags and could probably tell you for sure.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 10:49:29 AM EDT
IF is an HK date code. I'm not sure what it reads out to, but somebody at HKpro.com probably knows. It's probably a little older than you think, and I wouldnt be too surprised if its an HK41 mag like someone said.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 2:42:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 2:51:48 PM EDT by I-M-A-WMD]
Ahab & littleguy-

I think you're steering me on the right track. I just visted HKpro and under the "special topics" section they have a "numbering system" chart for date codes. I'll see if I can remember how to post a link... hkpro.com/symbols.htm (Scroll down)

The date code "IF" would mean 85 for 1985. Apparently the chart is accurate for HK firearms but doesn't necessarily relate to magazines. So it seems right, but could be wrong.

There are two other characteristics that may help narrow down the identity of this magazine. One is that the indentations on the sides of the magazine that run vertically from the top of the mag to the bottom, (Just as any USGI magazine) are squared off at the top such as... [ Whereas the definite steel HK high reliability magazine is rounded at the top where the indentation begins such as... (

The last difference, which is probably a big clue, is that the two halves of the magazine body are micro-welded. It has tiny beads which run veritically down the center of the spine and face of the magazine like this cccccccccc which is in comparison to the steel HK mags which run straight down the middle of the spine such as ---------------. (As a former welder, this makes sense to me but perhaps is lost on others)

In this URL hkpro.com/g41.htm there are pictures of the HK41 which show the rifle with what appears to be a similar magazine as the one in question as well as a USGI M16 magazine inserted. (2nd pic and 7th pic appear to be the magazine in question. Other pictures appear to be USGI dry moly finish w/ eared floor plate retaining bodies) With the magazine inserted it just looks like an HK Steel High Reliability mag. There are no pictures of the magazine only which if I could see the form of the vertical indentations would be a big help.

Thanks for giving me some direction... It's starting to look like it's just an old broken mag.

Sly

Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:44:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ahab:
Two, I'll bet what you have is an old H&K HK41 mag- they produced thier own mag for the H&K41 waay back in the day which, as I understand it, is basically identical to the "new" high reliability mags.. I don't know what they were made from but aluminium wouldn't be a crazy idea. SMGLee had at least one of these mags and could probably tell you for sure.



Just a bit of a nitpick here... there are 2 rifles with the "41" designation from HK. One is the HK41, an early version of the rifle that became the HK91, and the other is the G41, which I believe you are referring to in this discussion.

The difference is subtle... The HK41 is part of the HK numbering system that indicates type of rifle and caliber. The G41 is a German military designation, with the "G" much like the US "M" nomenclature (M16, M203, etc).

Chances are if this is a G41 mag you have, it's here by accident. Somewhere along the way someone probably needed an M16 mag for something, and found some left over from the G41 trials and snagged it (a mag is a mag is a mag, you know). It eventually ended up mixed in with inventory of the newer steel mags. Just my theory, and worth every penny you paid for it....
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 10:21:32 AM EDT

By MP5_guy: Just a bit of a nitpick here... there are 2 rifles with the "41" designation from HK. One is the HK41, an early version of the rifle that became the HK91, and the other is the G41, which I believe you are referring to in this discussion.


Thanks for the lesson in terminology. As I'm not up to spec on HK firearms, it did cause a bit of head scratching when I was on HKPRO. By Googling "HK41", I came up w/ an article on the "HK41 Precursor to the HK91" on HKPRO. ("A Disctintly American Import") I was looking at the pics and they were all of 308 weapons... Then I saw a link to the G41 but didn't notice the "G" in place of the "HK" which took me to a picture of what appears the correct 5.56 weapon and magazine... Learning something new each day. You won't be accused of nitpicking from me, this is a discussion. Your input is appreciated MP5_guy.

Thanks again.

Sly
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 10:28:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 10:29:24 AM EDT by I-M-A-WMD]
Here's is another good URL remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/g41/g41.htm

It would appear HK made an aluminum magazine w/ STANAG specs for the G41.

Sly
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