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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/14/2006 12:37:24 AM EDT
I heard from one of my range officers today that HK announced at SHOT that the 416 will be available to individual officers, not JUST to departments. I have no idea how much they are going to charge me for this "privilege" to own a legal rifle, but I thought it was noteworthy.

I'm not looking to get one, as it is (a) an HK, (b) much heavier than it needs to be, and (c) it will be overpriced.

Regarding my first reason, I USED to be a HUGE H&K fan, and I once stated I didn't see the need to own ANY firearm NOT made by H&K. All I have left of my collection is a P7M8, and that's because it's my wife's!

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 12:40:13 AM EDT
well you can always guarentee that rumors are abundant around the shot show time of year.....

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:29:14 AM EDT
I thought an individual LEO could already get one.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 1:02:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BeachPatrol:
I thought an individual LEO could already get one.




Where, When and How Much?
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 1:06:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 1:47:06 PM EDT
Maybe one day we will see them available.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 1:56:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 3:19:53 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]
I have also heard that individual LEO sales are coming this year.


Originally Posted By jwise:
(b) much heavier than it needs to be



Maybe you should actually handle one for yourself before you make such big bold claims. Try to remember that it's only slightly heavier than any other AR, and most of that is from the end user specified heavy barrel. I'm told HK is working on a lighter barrel profile; this will eliminate most of the Internet complaints about its weight. I have never heard a single end user complain about it and the one I handled and shot did not feel “Heavy” in any way, shape, or form. This complaint only seems to come from competitors (At least they think so) and from guys with absolutely no experience with it themselves.



Originally Posted By jwise:
(c) it will be overpriced.



I was told a few months ago that LEO price would be in the $1100-$1300 price range. I do not consider this to be outrageous considering it's quality and proven performance.

Link Posted: 2/16/2006 2:12:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 2:12:19 PM EDT by STG77]

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Maybe you should actually handle one for yourself before you make such big bold claims. Try to remember that it's only slightly heavier than any other AR, and most of that is from the end user specified heavy barrel. I'm told HK is working a lighter barrel profile; this will eliminate most of the Internet complaints about its weight. I have never heard a single end user complain about it and the one I handled and shot did not feel “Heavy” in any way, shape, or form. This complaint only seems to come from competitors (At least they think so) and from guys with absolutely no experience with it themselves.




Is the heavier bbl profile like the M4A1 barrels, or is it heavier than that? The M4A1 profile isn't exactly "heavy", much less excessive.

In any case, the added 416 barrel weight is under the handguards, behind the gas block, right? Where it should be, and where it doesn't compromise handling?
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 2:30:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 2:31:53 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By STG77:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Maybe you should actually handle one for yourself before you make such big bold claims. Try to remember that it's only slightly heavier than any other AR, and most of that is from the end user specified heavy barrel. I'm told HK is working a lighter barrel profile; this will eliminate most of the Internet complaints about its weight. I have never heard a single end user complain about it and the one I handled and shot did not feel “Heavy” in any way, shape, or form. This complaint only seems to come from competitors (At least they think so) and from guys with absolutely no experience with it themselves.




Is the heavier bbl profile like the M4A1 barrels, or is it heavier than that? The M4A1 profile isn't exactly "heavy", much less excessive.

In any case, the added 416 barrel weight is under the handguards, behind the gas block, right? Where it should be, and where it doesn't compromise handling?



The current barrel profile can be seen on page two of the Janes article:
www.hkdefense.us/corporate/media/pdf/JanesIDR416_Oct05.pdf

Personally, I think it handles like a dream.

Link Posted: 2/16/2006 2:33:38 PM EDT
Thats good news

Hopefully they will filter down before they become passé and replaced by the next must-have weapon.


They do represent the pinnacle of AR design to date
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 2:38:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 2:39:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
The current barrel profile can be seen on page two of the Janes article:
www.hkdefense.us/corporate/media/pdf/JanesIDR416_Oct05.pdf

Personally, I think it handles like a dream.





Doesn't look too heavy to me.

Thanks for the link.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 2:39:26 PM EDT
I know the HK fanatics would shit bricks on me for saying this, but I really hope the lower receivers are made in America. Seeing as HK is already pumping them out from Germany, we may not get a complete 416, just the upper. That's still fine with me though.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 2:46:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
I have also heard that individual LEO sales are coming this year.


Originally Posted By jwise:
(b) much heavier than it needs to be



Maybe you should actually handle one for yourself before you make such big bold claims. Try to remember that it's only slightly heavier than any other AR, and most of that is from the end user specified heavy barrel. I'm told HK is working a lighter barrel profile; this will eliminate most of the Internet complaints about its weight. I have never heard a single end user complain about it and the one I handled and shot did not feel “Heavy” in any way, shape, or form. This complaint only seems to come from competitors (At least they think so) and from guys with absolutely no experience with it themselves.



Originally Posted By jwise:
(c) it will be overpriced.



I was told a few months ago that LEO price would be in the $1100-$1300 price range. I do not consider this to be outrageous considering it's quality and proven performance.




Ok, I admit I'm jaded by H&K.

I looked at the spec sheet for the weight. You're right, the barrel profile is one factor that added to the weight.

$1100-$1300 doesn't sound TOO overpriced. I stand corrected if you are right about the price. Hey, I am a FIRM believer that I can't be disappointed if I don't expect much!

Link Posted: 2/16/2006 3:27:40 PM EDT
Thursday, February 16, 2006

Hi Guys:

Well, this is interesting news to me! When I was at the SHOT show this last weekend, at the HK Both, I spoke at length with two HK representatives. These representatives stated to me that at this time, they had been informed by HK that they do not plan to release any 416 or 417 type rifles or upper receivers to anyone, including civilians, law enforcement, and military!

Apparently the government and law enforcement reception has been rather cool to the HK 416 (no doubt aided by the lack of availability), and in short, HK is just holding on the 416 rifles and really does not know what they are going to do with them.

The representatives also stated that HK was experiencing conflicting in-house legal and ATF advice on the legality of importing these rifles and upper receivers. (Now that I can believe!).

I first saw the HK 416 rifles and carbine at the 2004 SHOT Show. In the past two years all I have seen of this rifle is wonderful press reviews by very special and privileged gun writers; and, wild rumors abound! I do understand the confusion, one sees and hears about the HK 416 all the time, but yet the product is not available after two years.

I am not holding my breath about the HK 416. It is a concept rifle / carbine system only and it will be a very, very, very cold day in hell before anyone in this country, especially civilians, sees one.

Take Care…

MP5 Machinenpistole

Link Posted: 2/16/2006 3:36:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 3:38:02 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By MP5MachinenPistole:
Thursday, February 16, 2006

Hi Guys:

Well, this is interesting news to me! When I was at the SHOT show this last weekend, at the HK Both, I spoke at length with two HK representatives. These representatives stated to me that at this time, they had been informed by HK that they do not plan to release any 416 or 417 type rifles or upper receivers to anyone, including civilians, law enforcement, and military!

Apparently the government and law enforcement reception has been rather cool to the HK 416 (no doubt aided by the lack of availability), and in short, HK is just holding on the 416 rifles and really does not know what they are going to do with them.

The representatives also stated that HK was experiencing conflicting in-house legal and ATF advice on the legality of importing these rifles and upper receivers. (Now that I can believe!).

I first saw the HK 416 rifles and carbine at the 2004 SHOT Show. In the past two years all I have seen of this rifle is wonderful press reviews by very special and privileged gun writers; and, wild rumors abound! I do understand the confusion, one sees and hears about the HK 416 all the time, but yet the product is not available after two years.

I am not holding my breath about the HK 416. It is a concept rifle / carbine system only and it will be a very, very, very cold day in hell before anyone in this country, especially civilians, sees one.

Take Care…

MP5 Machinenpistole




I call BS.

This is just a heads up, but thousands of HK416's are already in service with several elite U.S. military units & Federal government agencies. Plus a few lucky individuals got to buy some six months ago.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 4:29:08 PM EDT
Don't forget the very first announcement on HK Defense USA's website.


THE HK416 IS HERE!
For Military and Federal LE purchase only



HK is not just sitting on the gun, they're just looking for big time contracts.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 4:48:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Personally, I think it handles like a dream.



Dude, I'm telling your wife. You're definitely lusting after another.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 4:50:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By MP5MachinenPistole:
Thursday, February 16, 2006

Hi Guys:

Well, this is interesting news to me! When I was at the SHOT show this last weekend, at the HK Both, I spoke at length with two HK representatives. These representatives stated to me that at this time, they had been informed by HK that they do not plan to release any 416 or 417 type rifles or upper receivers to anyone, including civilians, law enforcement, and military!

Apparently the government and law enforcement reception has been rather cool to the HK 416 (no doubt aided by the lack of availability), and in short, HK is just holding on the 416 rifles and really does not know what they are going to do with them.

The representatives also stated that HK was experiencing conflicting in-house legal and ATF advice on the legality of importing these rifles and upper receivers. (Now that I can believe!).

I first saw the HK 416 rifles and carbine at the 2004 SHOT Show. In the past two years all I have seen of this rifle is wonderful press reviews by very special and privileged gun writers; and, wild rumors abound! I do understand the confusion, one sees and hears about the HK 416 all the time, but yet the product is not available after two years.

I am not holding my breath about the HK 416. It is a concept rifle / carbine system only and it will be a very, very, very cold day in hell before anyone in this country, especially civilians, sees one.

Take Care…

MP5 Machinenpistole




I call BS.

This is just a heads up, but thousands of HK416's are already in service with several elite U.S. military units & Federal government agencies. Plus a few lucky individuals got to buy some six months ago.


Weren't they made to give the uppers back?
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:06:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:16:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By MP5MachinenPistole:
Thursday, February 16, 2006

Hi Guys:

Well, this is interesting news to me! When I was at the SHOT show this last weekend, at the HK Both, I spoke at length with two HK representatives. These representatives stated to me that at this time, they had been informed by HK that they do not plan to release any 416 or 417 type rifles or upper receivers to anyone, including civilians, law enforcement, and military!

Apparently the government and law enforcement reception has been rather cool to the HK 416 (no doubt aided by the lack of availability), and in short, HK is just holding on the 416 rifles and really does not know what they are going to do with them.

The representatives also stated that HK was experiencing conflicting in-house legal and ATF advice on the legality of importing these rifles and upper receivers. (Now that I can believe!).

I first saw the HK 416 rifles and carbine at the 2004 SHOT Show. In the past two years all I have seen of this rifle is wonderful press reviews by very special and privileged gun writers; and, wild rumors abound! I do understand the confusion, one sees and hears about the HK 416 all the time, but yet the product is not available after two years.

I am not holding my breath about the HK 416. It is a concept rifle / carbine system only and it will be a very, very, very cold day in hell before anyone in this country, especially civilians, sees one.

Take Care…

MP5 Machinenpistole




I call BS.

This is just a heads up, but thousands of HK416's are already in service with several elite U.S. military units & Federal government agencies. Plus a few lucky individuals got to buy some six months ago.


Weren't they made to give the uppers back?

No.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:19:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kc3:

Originally Posted By dport:

Weren't they made to give the uppers back?

No.


Really, I seem to remember a big fuss about a dealer who had to track them down and was sending threatening correspondance. So they never were made to? Didn't some give them up anyway?
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:26:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By kc3:

Originally Posted By dport:

Weren't they made to give the uppers back?

No.


Really, I seem to remember a big fuss about a dealer who had to track them down and was sending threatening correspondance. So they never were made to? Didn't some give them up anyway?



Lots of smoke, but no fire.

The ATF deemed the uppers perfectly legal, but I'm sure a few buyers got scared and turned them in before they knew the truth. Plus the moronic "National Enquirer" style threads all over the Internet did not help the situation. 99.9% of what was speculated about in those threads turned out to be completely wrong.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:27:36 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:42:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By kc3:

Originally Posted By dport:

Weren't they made to give the uppers back?

No.


Really, I seem to remember a big fuss about a dealer who had to track them down and was sending threatening correspondance. So they never were made to? Didn't some give them up anyway?



Lots of smoke, but no fire.

The ATF deemed the uppers perfectly legal, but I'm sure a few buyers got scared and turned them in before they knew the truth. Plus the moronic "National Enquirer" style threads all over the Internet did not help the situation. 99.9% of what was speculated about in those threads turned out to be completely wrong.


Good on 'em for keeping them.

Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:45:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By kc3:

Originally Posted By dport:

Weren't they made to give the uppers back?

No.


Really, I seem to remember a big fuss about a dealer who had to track them down and was sending threatening correspondance. So they never were made to? Didn't some give them up anyway?



Lots of smoke, but no fire.

The ATF deemed the uppers perfectly legal, but I'm sure a few buyers got scared and turned them in before they knew the truth. Plus the moronic "National Enquirer" style threads all over the Internet did not help the situation. 99.9% of what was speculated about in those threads turned out to be completely wrong.


Good on 'em for keeping them.




Anyone who kept one of these obviously illegal and immoral items needs to forward it to me ASAP or I will send them a stern letter
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 6:07:25 PM EDT
I asked about selling the 416 outside of the current Fed/MIL and was told no individual sales to anyone, but they were going to expand the approved list to include state & local PDs....
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