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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/8/2006 8:35:42 PM EDT
Was there some talk while back about someone planning to make a rotating diopter sight for an M4 like the ones on the MP5? Even if you could obtain the one from the HK416, it looks like the hieght of the 416 receiver is not the same as a Colt flat top.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:48:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 10:19:29 AM EDT by patrick8654]
I saw the pictures of the HK 416 and would love to know where to get a BUIS in that style.

-Edidted to reflect my thought that when I said "BUIS" what I meant was, front and rear rail mounted sights...
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 8:45:18 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 8:57:08 AM EDT
Alright, I will continue my search for these sights. I read on one thread that someone got some from HK Pro. I myself couldn't find anything on that sight. So I will continue to post this question.
Does anyone know where to get these sights?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 12:24:53 PM EDT
My hope was that someone would be making them without the being the hieght of the HK416 which would require a new front sight as well, I think. That height increase I have heard is 3/8 inch which will affect cheekweld with the sights being higher, then affect the optic mount to keep the iron sights in the lower third. Oh well....
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 2:42:23 PM EDT
noone will be making a rear diopter sight for you that will work with a standard AR FSB. That's just plain gay.

If you want to copy the 416, get a railed forend over your low profile gas block. Get a front and rear SET of H&K style sights.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:31:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 2:33:02 AM EDT by patrick8654]
That's what I'm looking for. Sooooo back to my original question, where do I get these sights?

-It's not a matter of I want to copy the 416, it's a matter of in past experience I really liked these sights.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:35:49 AM EDT
There were some pictures and a post about this some time ago. Apparently the poster got a set in some "special deal" but stated that they were not available in the US.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:06:18 AM EDT
These folks did a prototype and were doing a pre-order deal on something they called the "RS120", which was basically a HK416 style of rear BUIS.

Of course, that was a year ago, and nothing seems to have come from it.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:32:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:
noone will be making a rear diopter sight for you that will work with a standard AR FSB. That's just plain gay.

If you want to copy the 416, get a railed forend over your low profile gas block. Get a front and rear SET of H&K style sights.



First off, demand is what drives what is manufactured, not opinion. And there is much offered in the HK style rear sight, especially when the turret from the 53/33 rifle is added.

this has nothing to do with copying a 416 and saying I have a clone. For a work gun I know what I would want. Thanks for you input, as worthless as it was.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:02:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mike240:
And there is much offered in the HK style rear sight, especially when the turret from the 53/33 rifle is added.



Not defending JR, but the HK diopter rear would be a screen-door-on-a-submarine propisition without the HK front sight. The HK concept is basically a "ring within a ring", so the sight picture utilizing a standard AR FSB can be accomplished using exsisting BUIS rears.

That said, I'd love a true HK sight set for the AR, as I find it much easier to line everything up quickly.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:58:16 AM EDT
I wonder if any manufacturers are willing to undertake making the hk sights, would they be infringing on copyright laws?

Maybe something like an ar15.com group buy, but who would make them?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:07:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By johndoexu:
I wonder if any manufacturers are willing to undertake making the hk sights, would they be infringing on copyright laws?



More likely on Patent laws, but I'd suspect the patent for their diopter type sights expired a long time ago.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:15:08 AM EDT
Brilliant! I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person with these thoughts. Yes, a sight SET, that would be the ticket. Now who will it be that steps forward to meet this challenge?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:15:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 10:24:49 AM EDT by JosephR]
Thanks for helping to elaborate on what I was saying.

Please read fully what I say so you don't get offended when you misunderstand what I say.

You need a SET of front and rear for it to work like it's supposed to. You can't just get a rear diopter to have a rear diopter. I said it would be silly to get a rear without a front because it would be just that- plain silly. It wouldn't work as it was intended to.

I felt safe in assuming you didn't know how they work because you need that front ring for it to work correctly. Therefore, if you don't know how they work and just want a rear diopter, there was no reason I couldn't assume you were just doing it to be different.

As far as me saying to get a railed foreend to match the 416, that's not because I'm suggesting you copy or try to clone the H&K. I'm saying that because the SETS that were offered came as such and need to be used on a continuous-height rail to work.

So to answer your original question


Was there some talk while back about someone planning to make a rotating diopter sight for an M4 like the ones on the MP5? they did make them as a set. Even if you could obtain the one from the HK416, it looks like the hieght of the 416 receiver is not the same as a Colt flat top. Correct. The heights are different and that is why you need a full set with a long continuous height rail and NOT the standard AR15 FSB.


ETA: POF USA makes some goofy looking front sight for their raised piston forends and it's fully hooded. It might work with an H&K "style" rear diopter.

I'm getting the impression those of you that want the rear diopter don't really understand how the size of the holes and sight picture with the front ring actually works, but I'm not an expert and I can't remember the link to the place that fully explains it.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:16:04 PM EDT
Tag, very interested
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:29:59 PM EDT
Effectively called "the halo of light" from some HK instructors. The beauty of the diopter system is using concentric circles - which in theory are faster for your eye to align. Not a complete explanation of the sights, but a start:

www.hkpro.com/sights.htm
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:52:02 PM EDT
From the link above (hopefully HKPro doesn't mind).



As you can see, without the HK style front sight, the "ring within a ring" or "halo of light" effect is pretty much lost.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:08:24 PM EDT
Ok let me clariy. I have spent much time behind and training others on the MP5 and am famiiar with how the HK sight system is designed to work. But front ring aside, it is a ghost ring and a front post which shoudl sound familiar to all the AR15 folks. Yes the dog ears will be visible as they are with the current AR15 rear sight. the point that I would like to determine for myself, is that given the distances that most will ever use the rifle in an urban setting is likely to be 100 yards or less. The four different size aperture openings are all on the same plane which means no difference in POI/POA. What the choice of apertures does give is varying degrees in accuracy versus speed under varying light conditions with easy change of aperture size in a timely fashion.

I alrady have run Ashley same plane apertures in Ar sights and wanted to see what two additional ones had to offer shooters with different eye sight (older shooters). It was for experimentation purposes mainly and from an instructors point of view you should experiment to determine varying methods that will aid shooters of all types to getting the task done.

And personally, I found that when shooting MP5s, 53s and 33s, that I centered the post and did nt worry about the 'ring in the ring' thing anyways. the check for equal light on the entire circumstance of the rings took more time than focusing on the post which is the what people are trained to do with handguns. What ever the system, the KISS on is best. and in my world most spend years with a handgun before going to a shoulder weapon. The less you have to retrain the better.

Link Posted: 2/25/2006 5:11:22 AM EDT
http://www.hkpro.com/sights5.jpg
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 5:12:10 AM EDT
sorry about that, unintentional post ^
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:30:53 AM EDT
Sorry Mike, you know where I was going with this.

You basically want an H&K style rear sight so you can flip through 4 different sized rear apertures as opposed to two.

I understand.

Sorry for grouping you in with the rash of guys that were running around looking for them just to make an H&K Clone.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 12:19:15 PM EDT
off topic, but why are all these non-team members tagging this? Lemming effect?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 12:25:06 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 12:30:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
off topic, but why are all these non-team members tagging this? Lemming effect?



Maybe in preparation for their upgrades to team member?
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:22:21 PM EDT
Thanks JoesphR. I know there are many out there who want to build clones of things to add to a collection. For me, add ons are to meet a purpose under the conditions that I must work. I also like to find solutions to problems that others have that work with me.

I hope this reply does not have the spelling errors that the first post had!
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:31:52 PM EDT
Why? HK sights look cool but the AR peep sight is so much better. Plus there's all that backwards engineering to make the HK style sights compatable.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 5:25:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
Why? HK sights look cool but the AR peep sight is so much better...



Actually, as a cross-eye dominant person, the only AR sights I can use without closing one eye is the Ashley SP "large" diopter (it's huge).

No such issues with the HK. The eye naturally aligns things. For someone such as me, the HK style front and rear sights would be a godsend.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 5:49:31 PM EDT
Bought an HK416 front and rear sight set last April from HKPro.com.

The dealer had rear diopter sights and front rail-mount sights as well as flip-ups for the proprietary HK416 front gas block. There was little interest at the time so he sold a few rear sets and one or two front sets and sent the rest back to HK.









They take some getting used to as the AR receiver is 3/8" shorter than the HK receiver, so even if you had an HK manufactured rear diopter it will not cowitness with a standard fixed front sight base.

However, they are great on an SBR.

Link Posted: 3/17/2006 6:58:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2006 7:02:14 PM EDT by humzai]
There was that dude that was planning on manufacturing them soon and I think Grenadier precision is working on a diopter sight.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 8:01:19 PM EDT
Found the thread.
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