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Posted: 4/6/2017 3:25:56 PM EST
I've got a 10" 416D rifle, full factory rifle not just the upper. It has a mini4 AAC can on it and a PRI CH in it. I initially started getting rounds jamming into the feed ramp and jamming the bullet back into the casings, as well as, rounds being slammed into the feed ramps sideways creating dents on the sides of the cases after about 600-700 rounds. I replaced the factory HK buffer with a standard weight AR buffer and it seemed to fix the malfunctions for another 400 rounds or so. Now same problem is occurring again. Rifle is meticulously cleaned and oiled after each range trip. I tried different ammo, mags and lube with no marked improvement. It seems to perform well without the suppressor. Anybody have an idea what could improve reliability with the suppressor installed?
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 3:36:43 PM EST
In my experience, these guns just don't like to run suppressed (wish most suppressors). It makes them very over-gassed, and I have had them outrun magazine springs (with bolt over base malfunctions).
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 11:09:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By quest84:
I've got a 10" 416D rifle, full factory rifle not just the upper. It has a mini4 AAC can on it and a PRI CH in it. I initially started getting rounds jamming into the feed ramp and jamming the bullet back into the casings, as well as, rounds being slammed into the feed ramps sideways creating dents on the sides of the cases after about 600-700 rounds. I replaced the factory HK buffer with a standard weight AR buffer and it seemed to fix the malfunctions for another 400 rounds or so. Now same problem is occurring again. Rifle is meticulously cleaned and oiled after each range trip. I tried different ammo, mags and lube with no marked improvement. It seems to perform well without the suppressor. Anybody have an idea what could improve reliability with the suppressor installed?
View Quote


The 416's I fired were suppressed with B&T suppressors. One thing I noticed was that the chamber got as dirty as a DI gun, and after a few hundred rounds they would have FTE just like yours.
Link Posted: 4/6/2017 11:36:02 PM EST
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Originally Posted By veeklog:


The 416's I fired were suppressed with B&T suppressors. One thing I noticed was that the chamber got as dirty as a DI gun, and after a few hundred rounds they would have FTE just like yours.
View Quote
A few hundred? When I got my 10.75" dedicated suppressed gun done on a Colt I lived it and put 700 rounds through it in two days. Then a cleaned and lubed it and put it next to the bed. You telling me that it's better than an HK?
Link Posted: 4/7/2017 9:55:47 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


A few hundred? When I got my 10.75" dedicated suppressed gun done on a Colt I lived it and put 700 rounds through it in two days. Then a cleaned and lubed it and put it next to the bed. You telling me that it's better than an HK?
View Quote
Based on the anecdotal evidence in this thread, maybe? Probably?

There is a bit more to the 416 than a piston system. The rear of the chamber is less oblique which provides more case head support, and the protrusion in the barrel extension puts more pressure on the extractor (presumably for OTB capabilities?). The chamber design certainly could be the issue.
Link Posted: 4/7/2017 10:02:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/7/2017 10:02:33 AM EST by SSeric02]
I thought the primary/advertised advantage of the 416 was with the short barreled/suppressed weapons? Just another example of "don't buy the hype" I guess.
Link Posted: 4/7/2017 2:01:31 PM EST
we all know suppressors will increase the cycle rate, i would say a heavier buffer is in order. maybe you are getting carrier bounce off the back of the buffer and its increasing the forward travel speed and causing the issue? just a guess.

maybe try a vltor A5 buffer tube/buffer. i use one in my LWCR IC rifle because its an over gassed mo-fo. i use an a5h3 or 4 buffer in it. tamed it down alot, although i never had cycling issues. i use them with any barrel that is over gassed and running a carbine stock.
Link Posted: 4/7/2017 2:02:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SSeric02:
I thought the primary/advertised advantage of the 416 was with the short barreled/suppressed weapons? Just another example of "don't buy the hype" I guess.
View Quote
The original Surefire K cans choked the HK so they've reduced backpressure with each generation from the 212 to the RC2. JSOC reportedly ports gas blocks to relieve pressure. Suppressed 416s can have 1100rpm cyclic rates and that will reveal magazine problems too.
Link Posted: 4/7/2017 2:16:42 PM EST
I thought about trying out one of the Griffin Suppressor Optimized Buffers. Anybody had any experience with those?
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XHPARSOB&name=Griffin+Armament++AR-SOB+(Suppressor+Optimized+Buffer)&search=griffin
Link Posted: 4/7/2017 4:24:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/7/2017 4:34:19 PM EST by mr_h]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


The original Surefire K cans choked the HK so they've reduced backpressure with each generation from the 212 to the RC2. JSOC reportedly ports gas blocks to relieve pressure. Suppressed 416s can have 1100rpm cyclic rates and that will reveal magazine problems too.
View Quote
i think LWRC over gasses their shit too. why do these companies insist on doing this...ya i know...

especially HK, its not like those military issue weapons are going to be shooting weak 223 preassure ammo like pmc or something.

i had a 16" LW that i chopped to 12" and it cycled perfectly with m193 ammo, a 3 o'clock pattern. that tells ya something about just how over gassed it was.
Link Posted: 4/7/2017 7:42:05 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


A few hundred? When I got my 10.75" dedicated suppressed gun done on a Colt I lived it and put 700 rounds through it in two days. Then a cleaned and lubed it and put it next to the bed. You telling me that it's better than an HK?
View Quote
All I pointed out was the HK got as dirty as a DI suppressed, and that was after one range session.
Link Posted: 4/7/2017 7:53:18 PM EST
I'm going to "assume" that your gas block is not the newer, vented style for the 10.5 inch guns.

I would ask how many rounds are through the gun at this point and perhaps suggest replacing the action spring and placing the HK buffer back in the gun. Did you start seeing this issue after 600 to 700 rounds total through the gun or a 600 to 700 round range session?

Action springs are expendable and need to be replaced on occasion and are one of the major causes of guns acting "overgassed".

In this scenario, you've got multiple variables stacking up. Most likely a non vented block, suppressor, and possibly a worn/weakened action spring. If you're not using anti-tilt follower type magazines the problem will be exacerbated.

Look at the most obvious issue first if the gun ran fine for awhile and then started experiencing issues. That means look to replacing the action spring first and switching back to the heavier HK buffer.

After that, look to replacing the gas block with a newer vented model for 10.5 inch guns.

Personally, when I cut my MR556, I modified the barrel gas port to work with the stock vented gas block rather then switch to a non-vented block. Slow adjustment with test fires between each size allowed me to tune the system to run fine both suppressed and unsuppressed without modification of the gas block, which has the added benefit of keeping the system fully gassed with the heavier action spring and buffer so system reliability doesn't take a hit, and I get to throw the suppressor on whenever I want without concern of it not working either way.

For what it's worth, I also changed out my ejector springs to stock M4/M16 ejector springs on all my HK bolts due to the fact that the HK ejector spring is weaker by over half a pound of tension (according to my unscientific measurements) and that effects ejection pattern. Since I am a holdout and still use ejection pattern for gross function diagnosis, the milspec ejector springs help with that.

For what it's worth, any gun can experience these issues, DI or piston. Parts wear is parts wear, and I've seen a lot of parts wear before.
Link Posted: 4/7/2017 8:10:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2017 3:06:45 PM EST by mr_h]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By veeklog:
All I pointed out was the HK got as dirty as a DI suppressed, and that was after one range session.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By veeklog:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


A few hundred? When I got my 10.75" dedicated suppressed gun done on a Colt I lived it and put 700 rounds through it in two days. Then a cleaned and lubed it and put it next to the bed. You telling me that it's better than an HK?
All I pointed out was the HK got as dirty as a DI suppressed, and that was after one range session.
cleaner chambers on piston uppers with suppressor use is a common misconception. the blow back down the barrel is what causes it to get dirty, nothing is going to stop that.

take the can off and shoot a thousand rounds and tell us which you think is cleaner.
Link Posted: 4/10/2017 8:56:12 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By APSArmament:
I'm going to "assume" that your gas block is not the newer, vented style for the 10.5 inch guns.

I would ask how many rounds are through the gun at this point and perhaps suggest replacing the action spring and placing the HK buffer back in the gun. Did you start seeing this issue after 600 to 700 rounds total through the gun or a 600 to 700 round range session? Started seeing the issues at 600-700 rounds total through the gun.

Action springs are expendable and need to be replaced on occasion and are one of the major causes of guns acting "overgassed".

In this scenario, you've got multiple variables stacking up. Most likely a non vented block, suppressor, and possibly a worn/weakened action spring. If you're not using anti-tilt follower type magazines the problem will be exacerbated. Yes it is non-vented. I've tried the factory mags, USGI mags and Magpul M3 mags.

Look at the most obvious issue first if the gun ran fine for awhile and then started experiencing issues. That means look to replacing the action spring first and switching back to the heavier HK buffer.

After that, look to replacing the gas block with a newer vented model for 10.5 inch guns. Is this possible? I read somewhere that the vented gas blocks are a different diameter and cannot be directly replaced.

Personally, when I cut my MR556, I modified the barrel gas port to work with the stock vented gas block rather then switch to a non-vented block. Slow adjustment with test fires between each size allowed me to tune the system to run fine both suppressed and unsuppressed without modification of the gas block, which has the added benefit of keeping the system fully gassed with the heavier action spring and buffer so system reliability doesn't take a hit, and I get to throw the suppressor on whenever I want without concern of it not working either way. This is a factory 10" gun

For what it's worth, I also changed out my ejector springs to stock M4/M16 ejector springs on all my HK bolts due to the fact that the HK ejector spring is weaker by over half a pound of tension (according to my unscientific measurements) and that effects ejection pattern. Since I am a holdout and still use ejection pattern for gross function diagnosis, the milspec ejector springs help with that.

For what it's worth, any gun can experience these issues, DI or piston. Parts wear is parts wear, and I've seen a lot of parts wear before.
View Quote
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 12:03:04 AM EST
The barrel diameter is the same and all gas blocks will fit.

The change is in the vent itself.

For longer barrels with more dwell time, the vent is larger. For shorter barrels with less dwell time, the vent is smaller.

Current use gas block for 10.4 inch barrels.

Like I said, for mine, I just made the gas port in the barrel large enough to run with the stock 14.5 vented gas block.

Point being is that the non vented guns trap too much gas in the system, especially suppressed, and cause strange failures. Slow the bolt just a little and you should see an improvement.

Lastly, when shooting suppressed, remember to clean your mags regularly as well. The fouling that blows into the receiver also blows into the magazines and mags can foul just like the guns can. Regardless of manufacture.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 9:04:38 AM EST
@joglee
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 9:19:56 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
@joglee
View Quote
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 11:17:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2017 11:20:41 AM EST by joglee]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
@joglee
View Quote
The questions have been asked.

Is he running the non ported gas block or ported?

It makes a difference.

I would also ask how did he get this? HK factory 416ds havent been available since like 2005 and those were just police take off uppers, not complete rifles.

It could possibly be a civilian lower and old police take off upper.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:27:30 PM EST
He said in the first line it was a complete rifle.

HK has had six or seven generations so far maybe they will help him out under warranty.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 1:41:09 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
@joglee
View Quote
beat.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 2:07:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2017 2:07:37 PM EST by joglee]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
He said in the first line it was a complete rifle.

HK has had six or seven generations so far maybe they will help him out under warranty.
View Quote
That doesn't mean it's new, and it doesn't mean it's not a 2004-2005 police take off slapped on a civvy MR556 lower.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 2:14:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joglee:


That doesn't mean it's new, and it doesn't mean it's not a 2004-2005 police take off slapped on a civvy MR556 lower.
View Quote
Full. Factory. Rifle.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 2:22:58 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


Full. Factory. Rifle.
View Quote
but was it shot by a SEAL?

Or at least blown by a SEAL?

Only real operators can handle the throbbing rod of teutonic perfection.

Maybe he needs a big fucking rope.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 2:49:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2017 2:50:46 PM EST by joglee]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


Full. Factory. Rifle.
View Quote
I would like to see pictures of the markings.

Also would be curious to see how he got a factory original 416D made in recent times?

416Ds have never been for sale, all you could get was the upper late 2004 early 2005 as police take offs(which was also quickly stopped), which is why a 416D upper runs $5,000-$6,000 each.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 2:59:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sylvan:


but was it shot by a SEAL?

Or at least blown by a SEAL?

Only real operators can handle the throbbing rod of teutonic perfection.

Maybe he needs a big fucking rope.
View Quote
Maybe all of the above?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 3:04:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joglee:


I would like to see pictures of the markings.

Also would be curious to see how he got a factory original 416D made in recent times?

416Ds have never been for sale, all you could get was the upper late 2004 early 2005 as police take offs(which was also quickly stopped), which is why a 416D upper runs $5,000-$6,000 each.
View Quote
Well my guess is he is a policeman.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 3:05:38 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sylvan:


but was it shot by a SEAL?

Or at least blown by a SEAL?

Only real operators can handle the throbbing rod of teutonic perfection.

Maybe he needs a big fucking rope.
View Quote
Involuntary user name change for joglee?

All in favor?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 3:29:30 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


Well my guess is he is a policeman.
View Quote
That's why I'd like more info. Also the manufacturer. Year as well.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 3:40:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2017 3:41:47 PM EST by Skg_Mre_Lght]
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 4:23:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 4:25:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 5:11:06 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
Piston rifles by necessity are overgassed because they're inefficient.

I'm pretty positive that the Mini-4 created a lot of back pressure as well (like the SF cans)
View Quote
SF cans produce less backpressure than most. And shorter cans produce less backpressure than longer cans.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 6:44:53 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joglee:


I would like to see pictures of the markings.

Also would be curious to see how he got a factory original 416D made in recent times?

416Ds have never been for sale, all you could get was the upper late 2004 early 2005 as police take offs(which was also quickly stopped), which is why a 416D upper runs $5,000-$6,000 each.
View Quote
Yea I had a soldier buy one after deployment.

$5k for a upper, At least he didn't blow it on fat Fayetteville chicks.

Not sure if it was a 416D but  it had the 10.5 inch barrel.
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 7:40:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By feudist:
Involuntary user name change for joglee?

All in favor?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By feudist:
Originally Posted By Sylvan:


but was it shot by a SEAL?

Or at least blown by a SEAL?

Only real operators can handle the throbbing rod of teutonic perfection.

Maybe he needs a big fucking rope.
Involuntary user name change for joglee?

All in favor?
Aye
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 8:15:59 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rooster-Cogburn:
Aye
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rooster-Cogburn:
Originally Posted By feudist:
Originally Posted By Sylvan:


but was it shot by a SEAL?

Or at least blown by a SEAL?

Only real operators can handle the throbbing rod of teutonic perfection.

Maybe he needs a big fucking rope.
Involuntary user name change for joglee?

All in favor?
Aye
Aye

what will his new name be?
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 8:23:47 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rooster-Cogburn:
Aye
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rooster-Cogburn:
Originally Posted By feudist:
Originally Posted By Sylvan:


but was it shot by a SEAL?

Or at least blown by a SEAL?

Only real operators can handle the throbbing rod of teutonic perfection.

Maybe he needs a big fucking rope.
Involuntary user name change for joglee?

All in favor?
Aye
Hell yes.
I mean AYE
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 10:51:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
Aye

what will his new name be?
View Quote
Link Posted: 4/13/2017 11:10:10 PM EST
I have some of these on the way. I guess we'll see how it works out.

Link Posted: 4/13/2017 11:35:52 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
Yea I had a soldier buy one after deployment.

$5k for a upper, At least he didn't blow it on fat Fayetteville chicks.

Not sure if it was a 416D but  it had the 10.5 inch barrel.
View Quote
I once counseled a Soldier, in writing, that he was not authorized to trade his Ford Ranger for a Barrett M107.

The order may have been dubious, but it kept the fucking thing out of my arms room.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 1:49:11 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
I have some of these on the way. I guess we'll see how it works out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/ermey/2017-04-13%2023.08.43_zpsdlrxa0vi.jpg
View Quote
Is that the old or new one? The original Norwegian gas block had a ton of issues.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 1:56:52 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


I once counseled a Soldier, in writing, that he was not authorized to trade his Ford Ranger for a Barrett M107.

The order may have been dubious, but it kept the fucking thing out of my arms room.
View Quote
Lol I see you point.

I have a Barrett M-82 BTW
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 3:02:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2017 3:02:49 AM EST by dangerdan]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joglee:
Is that the old or new one? The original Norwegian gas block had a ton of issues.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joglee:
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
I have some of these on the way. I guess we'll see how it works out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/ermey/2017-04-13%2023.08.43_zpsdlrxa0vi.jpg
Is that the old or new one? The original Norwegian gas block had a ton of issues.
Its also not -87 degrees in these parts.

Seems it worked fine in comfortable temperatures. 
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 6:41:35 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
I have some of these on the way. I guess we'll see how it works out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/ermey/2017-04-13%2023.08.43_zpsdlrxa0vi.jpg
View Quote
what in the fuck am I looking at?
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 6:42:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 6:44:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2017 6:46:28 AM EST by RustedAce]
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 6:56:23 AM EST
I thought it was the new MRAP.

You have to have an awesome gun to need something like that to move divert gas.

Belgiums ain't that fancy

Link Posted: 4/14/2017 9:57:01 AM EST
I'm just a DI guy over here they work fine without adjustable gas blocks if you sell them up right.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 10:14:10 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I'm just a DI guy over here they work fine without adjustable gas blocks if you sell them up right.
View Quote
Gas buster and heavier buffer I believe does the trick. And the former only if you are doing a lot of shooting.

I did a rapid fire on a suppressed AR w/o gas buster and it was some gas bukake.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 10:16:51 AM EST
Low backpressure cans, small gas port.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 11:20:08 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


Well my guess is he is a policeman.
View Quote
Ding, ding, ding! It's got an 88 prefix, not sure on the year. I've been in contact with with HK customer service but we'll see how that works out.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 11:30:01 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Low backpressure cans, small gas port.
View Quote
How do they design that?
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