Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Member Login

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Posted: 9/24/2012 9:32:04 AM EDT
I live in the crappiest state with gun laws (New Jersey) I dont have paperwork from years ago for having a muzzle brake put on my AR15.....Law Enforcement is trying to call it a flash suppressor when I know that its a muzzle brake. I need to try and identify the maker and model of this. If you have any info please help or I may lose this weapon. I know the pic doesnt help much but the guy at gun shop told me the gunsmith was big into mid evil and calymore products. The inside of the brake is kind of V shaped like a funnel. The top has 3 rows of small pin holes. Probably about 6 or so in each row. If I can identify this style brake  or compensator and prove that it is not a flash hider I should be able to get it back. This isnt a Joke I know i dont post here alot but seriously help me figure out what this is so I can get my black gun home.
http://i50.tinypic.com/33286it.jpg
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 9:42:18 AM EDT
Would a letter from the gunsmith be enough to please the LEO?  It sucks they aren't educated enough to see that it is a comp given your description.
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 9:49:38 AM EDT
The gunsmith isnt there anymore but the shop owner remembered what favor of brakes he favored....I think when I had it installed he told me it was a Y compensator.....The problem is trying to identify the make/model of this compenator or brake...and I doubt they will let me go down there and snap some pics...its just more word against some guy who works the property room for the prosecutors office :\  I know the inside was funneled like a V shape but the edges weren jagged....I need to find some information that proves what a muzzle brake is, a flash suppressor and a Y compensator....the flash hider is all that isnt legal in NJ but without finding out what make/model is on my rifle I wont have a leg to stand on if i go in there. This state BLOWS! I even told them to keep my upper and give me the rest of the weapon just take the scope and lower off... "thats not how it works, if its considered an assualt rifle in this state it will be destroyed"
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 9:54:27 AM EDT
Levang Linear compensator?





Link Posted: 9/24/2012 10:34:31 AM EDT
Get better pictures.
or
Get a lawyer.

If the inside is v-shaped, it will be hard to classify it as a muzzle brake.
Most brakes are closed off on the ends. Flash hiders are usually v-shaped on the inside.


Link Posted: 9/24/2012 11:35:05 AM EDT
Sorry that isnt the brake/compensator I have.

I have a lawyer but he isnt a weapons expert. Is there compensators or breaks that are V shaped on the inside....the most distinguising facotr is the top of it going long ways with the barell is the 6 or 8 small holes in 3 seperate rows to shoot the gasses up.....how can I try and find this specific model online other than searching "muzzle brake" or "compensator"
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 11:43:54 AM EDT
Quoted:
Sorry that isnt the brake/compensator I have.

I have a lawyer but he isnt a weapons expert. Is there compensators or breaks that are V shaped on the inside....the most distinguising facotr is the top of it going long ways with the barell is the 6 or 8 small holes in 3 seperate rows to shoot the gasses up.....how can I try and find this specific model online other than searching "muzzle brake" or "compensator"


I've never seen a muzzle brake with a cone shaped interior. The cone shape prevents the device from acting as a brake. Flash hiders can have holes to direct gas upward, just like muzzle brakes. Take a look at an M249 flash hider.


Do a google image search for "muzzle brake"
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 12:08:34 PM EDT
pretty much identical to this one....cant find a brand...UAG maybe? mine is .223 not 308

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/308-5-8x24-Competition-Muzzle-Brake-308-Crush-Washer-/00/$(KGrHqMOKn!E5-fnv)tvBOg7+PRFEQ~~_35.JPG
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 12:14:30 PM EDT
That is a Fabian Bros.  DTA mil-brake.

Link Posted: 9/24/2012 12:21:01 PM EDT
Interested in hearing the story of where you were and what brought about the confiscation.
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 12:25:13 PM EDT
does this thing look like this




look towards the bottom / page 2

Bushmaster

the Y Comp from Bushmaster
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 12:30:02 PM EDT
Thanks that looks exactly like it except I remember it having a more cone/funnel shape on the inside....like you wouldnt be able to fit your pinky in it....do they make any that are similiar to what im describing? perhaps an NJ legal version? Is this one you have showed me consider a flash hider or muzzle brake/compensator...I need something that i can print out that shows the picture of what I have as well as it saying it is a muzzle brake or compensator NOT a flash hider....if its a flash hider (based off of their review of it) my bushmaster will be destroyed
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 12:36:55 PM EDT
Quoted:
Thanks that looks exactly like it except I remember it having a more cone/funnel shape on the inside....like you wouldnt be able to fit your pinky in it....do they make any that are similiar to what im describing? perhaps an NJ legal version? Is this one you have showed me consider a flash hider or muzzle brake/compensator...I need something that i can print out that shows the picture of what I have as well as it saying it is a muzzle brake or compensator NOT a flash hider....if its a flash hider (based off of their review of it) my bushmaster will be destroyed


if you are referring to my post this is from Bushmaster I had a NJ Compliant Rifle once that had this thing on it and it is considered a Muzzle Break

read the info I posted above in the PDF form from Bushmaster. Also you can get the info from Bushmaster

I am very sure that this is legal in your State if it is this Y-Comp.

I still have the one that is cut of if it would help you in getting back your rifle let me know and I send it to you it is pretty much worthless since it is cut of but perhaps for comparison sake.

Link Posted: 9/24/2012 12:50:11 PM EDT
fantom no sorry not your brake the guy who said Fabain DTA
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 12:56:29 PM EDT
Sorry if I missed it, but if you'll repost this in the general AR discussion subforum you'll get more hits than you're finding with it in the A2 forum...especially since its not an A2 anyway.
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 1:45:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 1:46:01 PM EDT
Topic Moved
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 2:44:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 2:56:52 PM EDT
Those DTA's look like a hybrid between a brake and a flash hider.  The ports on the top look like a brake and I expect that if you looked down the muzzle the device would have a small opening past those holes.  The large opening up front looks like a A2 flash hider.

I also would love to hear about how/why the weapon was confiscated.  The laws are absolutely bananas.  In no way does a flash hider make a weapon any more of an "assault weapon" except by definition.
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 3:35:05 PM EDT
I know it's not GD, but.... In for backstory.

Good luck OP
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 3:47:49 PM EDT
Get a lawyer that is a weapons expert.
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 3:59:23 PM EDT
troy claymore maybe? i dont know u need a better pic. any markings on the device?
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 4:05:39 PM EDT
I am no help what so ever but good luck with it and move out of that crazy state!!!
Would also like to hear the actual reason why the took it and how they found out you have it!
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 4:06:54 PM EDT
I know it's easier said than done and doesn't help the situation at hand, but why put up with this shit instead of just moving someplace else?

I'd help you try to figure it out but a better picture would be ideal. If it is the Fabian Bros. DTA mil brake, the only info I could find is that they were for sale in the 80's and 90's. I've been trying but I can't seem to find any specific product pages on the internet (kinda expected since the internet in the 80's/90's wasn't big on e-commerce)

I'll keep trying.

Good luck in getting your rifle back.

EDIT:

Here's a link of the brake for an HK93 in 5.56:
http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?20267-WTS-Fabian-Bros-HK93-brake

Here's a link of one for the Ruger Mini-14 with good shot at the instructions:
http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/ruger-mini-14-mini-30/80987-fabian-brothers-mini-14-muzzle-brake.html

DPMS makes a similar one:
http://dpmsinc.3dcartstores.com/Fabio-Muzzle-Stabilizer_p_1813.html
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 4:08:15 PM EDT
Ugh.  Thank God I live in Texas!
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 6:00:54 PM EDT
Quoted:
Ugh.  Thank God I live in Texas!


Talk about the lesser of two evils!
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 7:02:18 PM EDT
Quoted:
Would a letter from the gunsmith be enough to please the LEO? It sucks they aren't educated enough to see that it is a comp given your description.


96% of our local LEOs couldn't pick out the AR15 in a lineup of 12 uzis and 1 AR One of them that I know fairly well was telling me about the AK47 he was issued....it was an early 90s 16" A2 Bushmaster patrol carbine I corrected him of course.

I wish that was a closer picture OP, 98% sure it's not a midevil or clay-more....listen to Stick.

Link Posted: 9/24/2012 7:07:02 PM EDT
Why don't you just get it removed and have a gunsmith install a modern compensator/brake?

Would prob help avoid issues down to road too.
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 7:26:29 PM EDT
Quoted:
Why don't you just get it removed and have a gunsmith install a modern compensator/brake?

Would prob help avoid issues down to road too.


RIF
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 7:28:54 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would a letter from the gunsmith be enough to please the LEO? It sucks they aren't educated enough to see that it is a comp given your description.


96% of our local LEOs couldn't pick out the AR15 in a lineup of 12 uzis and 1 AR One of them that I know fairly well was telling me about the AK47 he was issued....it was an early 90s 16" A2 Bushmaster patrol carbine I corrected him of course.

I wish that was a closer picture OP, 98% sure it's not a midevil or clay-more....listen to Stick.



They also call bolt action rifle assault rifles heard it before and I just slapped my forehead and shook my head.
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 7:53:35 PM EDT
Quoted:
That is a Fabian Bros.  DTA mil-brake.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2i75l6q.jpg


Yes it is had one on an SR9

Red Dog Target Supplies out of Cave Creek,AZ sold them and attached one for me many yrs ago

Fabian Bros DTA Milbrake is what that is
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 8:13:39 PM EDT
Quoted:
Ugh.  Thank God I live in Texas!


I'm with BadHairDay on this one. The only exception being that I'm live in Missouri though. No communist gun laws here
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 9:16:05 PM EDT
I have nothing to offer as far as identification. I would however look for a weapons expert attorney. Maybe contract your local friends of the NRA for help or your local 2a group.
Link Posted: 9/24/2012 10:23:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 3:22:25 AM EDT
Guys listen I know NJ sucks. I have my family here I cant just move...the weapon was taken for safekeeping and all other minor charges were dropped..thats all im going to say regarding that...I have a return for my other weapons but this is being looked at by them and they are considering it as having a "flash hider"


It looks to me also to be a Fabian Bros DTA Muzzle Brake. You can have a muzzle brake in this state but not a flash hider. I need some kind of company information or a way to find a weapons expert that can tell the LE that this is in fact legal....if it is...otherwise my nice black rifle isnt going to be mine anymore. Finding an attorney whos a weapons expert doesnt sound easy, if i Had info to print and bring with me it might be easier.
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 3:45:41 AM EDT
You need an attorney.
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 3:57:02 AM EDT



Quoted:


You need an attorney.


THIS!!!!



This dealing with jerkoff LEO is damn near useless.



Just sue the shit out of them for seizing a weapon w/o any justification beside their own stupidity. A lawyer will do that for you.



 
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 4:08:27 AM EDT
Why dont you go to your hometown forum and ask for a gun friendly attorney there?
I'm sure someone there to give you some advice or suggestions.
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 4:22:00 AM EDT
Quoted:
Why dont you go to your hometown forum and ask for a gun friendly attorney there?
I'm sure someone there to give you some advice or suggestions.


this is good advice.  Your hometown forum will probably be more useful from this point on since you now know what type of muzzle device you have. You're going to just get a bunch of anti-NJ rhetoric here.
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 5:03:04 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would a letter from the gunsmith be enough to please the LEO? It sucks they aren't educated enough to see that it is a comp given your description.


96% of our local LEOs couldn't pick out the AR15 in a lineup of 12 uzis and 1 AR One of them that I know fairly well was telling me about the AK47 he was issued....it was an early 90s 16" A2 Bushmaster patrol carbine I corrected him of course.

I wish that was a closer picture OP, 98% sure it's not a midevil or clay-more....listen to Stick.



this^^^^^^  I don't know about other states but our police are by and large lacking in knowledge about firearms, firearm laws, and basic modicums of societal respect.  I would also add that as a group, only people that have never touched a firearm before are worse shots.....perhaps
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 5:08:20 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
....listen to Stick.




Its almost like I'm a gun friendly cop who has been on the job a long time.

However, the OP hasn't answered the original question I asked.  Saying he found "documentation" on an internet forum isn't going to help him at all.  It would be nice to get the other parts of the story regarding how and why the weapon was seized.  NJ gun laws are bad, no question about it and I've spent plenty of time with LE in that state so I know that many if not most could care less about what components are on the weapon, especially when it comes to something like a comp vs FS.  I can see them more concerned if they have to respond to a call  and see a weapon which has multiple features which are illegal like the adjustable stock, FS and lug along with a bag full of high cap mags and a guy flipping them crap.  

There are cops who have attitudes, rookies who want to make a name or impress their SGT, and cops who are anti-gun.  I do understand that, but they are the minority, which still doesn't help you if you are caught by them with a violation.  I was wearing a badge before the last AWB went into place, and never made an arrest or seized a weapon based off a BS AWB violation, and I won't do it off the next one.  



I wish more police in NJ were as competent and respectful of their profession and the law as you are.  I have 4 cousins that are cops and oh my.....

be safe
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 6:28:22 AM EDT
I found some acrhived info about it  in here about that particular product and it claimed it was a muzzle brake / flash hider combo so Im not sure how your going to approach it. Fabian Bros did make one that was just a brake but it didnt have the bird cage on the end . Get a damn good lawyer and when you get it back get it changed .
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 6:46:15 AM EDT
Did some research;

DTA made 2 different versions. One is a comp only, the other is a comp/flash hider. California law allows the comp only version, the other is considered a FH since the final stage is a flash hider. Not sure NJ has that extensive a definition.

Edits will follow as I continue the search...
EDIT 1 I don't find any specific definition for Flash Suppressor in the law. This puts your DTA Comp/FH into a gray area. If you can show that the item functions as a comp, and the FH appearance is for cosmetic purposes, you have a chance.

EDIT 2 This is the section of the law that effect your situation.
TITLE 13. LAW AND PUBLIC SAFETY
CHAPTER 54. FIREARMS AND WEAPONS


"Assault firearms" means:
1. Any of the following firearms: (snipped down to ARs)
Bushmaster Assault Rifle
Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 series

2. Any firearm manufactured under any designation, which is substantially identical to any of the
firearms listed in paragraph 1 above. As used in this definition, the term "substantial" means
pertaining to the substance, matter, material or essence of a thing and the term "identical" means
exactly the same. Hence, a firearm is substantially identical to another only if it is identical in all
material, essential respects. A firearm is not substantially identical to a listed assault firearm unless
it is identical except for differences that do not alter the essential nature of the firearm.
The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the
firearm: the name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make
the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material used to make a pistol grip; and a modification of a
pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list. A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be
"substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it
meets the below listed criteria:
i. A semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least
two of the following:
(1) A folding or telescoping stock;
(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(3) A bayonet mount;
(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash
suppressor; and
(5) A grenade launcher;

Link Posted: 9/25/2012 6:52:33 AM EDT
I hate to say it OP, but the device in question is a combination compensator/flashhider. In a legal respect, the fact that it has flash hider slots makes it a flash hider. It doesn't matter if the device lightens the recoil to that of a .22lr, it is still a flash hider. In all probability, your local LEO's aren't going to budge on this one.

I'm very sorry to hear of your predicament. I hope you can find a way around this so you can get your rifle back, it's a damn shame that the same rifle, with the same firepower, would be legal without 6 little slots on the muzzle. Doesn't make any sense, but that is the state of things in NJ.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 6:58:25 AM EDT
The thing with NJ is that you need to be very careful and make sure your rifles are within the confines of the law.  I removed a PRS stock because the ATF said it was collapsible stock and as such, illegal in NJ.  I just didn't want to take the chance.....
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 7:52:37 AM EDT
Why do I get the feeling there is more to the story?  ie. What led to L.E. attention and what are they charging you with if it is proven to be a FH? I am in no way, shape, or form calling the O.P. a liar.  I just get a nagging feeling there is more to the story.
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 8:05:50 AM EDT




Quoted:

Why do I get the feeling there is more to the story? ie. What led to L.E. attention and what are they charging you with if it is proven to be a FH? I am in no way, shape, or form calling the O.P. a liar. I just get a nagging feeling there is more to the story.




yeah, like how did all this unfold or was the leo making  FS/MB checks in the area
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 8:17:21 AM EDT
Quoted:
Why do I get the feeling there is more to the story?  ie. What led to L.E. attention and what are they charging you with if it is proven to be a FH? I am in no way, shape, or form calling the O.P. a liar.  I just get a nagging feeling there is more to the story.


Exactly. When the OP says the his rifle was taken ".....for safe keeping...", and that "....all other minor charges were dropped....", kind of indicates to me that LE was involved probably due to some type of 'domestic disturbance' situation at his residence. The firearm(s) on the premises were more than likely taken at that time (or at a later time due to a court order, conditional bond, etc.), and during that time the AR was deemed to be illegal due to the muzzle device. If that's that case (and my 'spidy senses'  tell me that it's something along those lines), your local PD/local prosecutor/court, more than likely will not return your firearm not only due to the alleged ambiguity of the muzzle device, but more likely to cover their asses, and err on the side of officer/public safety, should some type of future DV incident occur at the OP's residence (or AO).
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 8:21:57 AM EDT
Looks to me like the OP is screwed. Only real chance is lack of proof that it is flash suppressor. They need to prove it is suppressor, and the only way to do that would be to remove, fire, reattach, fire and see if suppresses or not. If no charges against OP, I'd suggest letting it go. Legal fees will probably be way more than it's worth. Fighting corrupt  legal systems, while noble, just isn't worth the price in slave states.
Pray For Rain.
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 8:28:34 AM EDT
It's not our place to pejudge the OP. He wants the legal issues he had to remain private, and that is his right. We can't demand his story. If his biggest problem is the Comp/FH then it isn't a "Domestic Disturbance/ Violence" issue. So, let's cut him a break.
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 8:42:09 AM EDT
NJ gun friendly lawyer is what you need.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Top Top