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Posted: 5/5/2004 1:13:45 AM EST
I am trying to figure out which barrel to purchase. I want a 24" stainless steel barrel but don't know whch maker makes the best and why. Please note the pros and cons for each. Some of the names may have been misspelled. Are there any other barrel makers who should be on the list?
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 2:38:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 2:41:15 AM EST by mr_wilson]
This is a somewhat subjective question.

I like Krieger barrels they are double cryo'd and I have never seen one that wouldn't shoot.

One not mentioned on your list which I consider just a good, although I have only had experience w/ them thru others who shoot them is Pac-Nor.

I have seen good barrels and results with almost all ya named, as to which is best, that's a tough question, I'll stick w/ my Kreigers and be satisfied that it's one of the best, but no doubt about it, the others ain't that bad either and most will shoot tighter than most of us can hold. High Masters excluded from that last statement.

Mike

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 3:42:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 3:43:38 AM EST by 223Rem]
How much do you want to spend, which chamber would you prefer, how quickly do you want it and what level of accuracy are you looking for?

Wilson barrels can be found on RRA Varminter with a 1/8 twist and Wylde chambers. A production barrel, but none the less very accurate from the reports of the owners. Cheapest and fastest route, so look up ADCO Firearms on this board for the best price and service. About $220 tops!

If you want a Douglas barrel, contact Frank White @ Compass Lake. Nothing but excellent work comes from Frank, in which he uses CLE chambering on his barrels. Runs a bit over $300. Other have reported bad experiences with Douglas Barrels (non Frank White work) but I do not see that as barrel blank problem, but rather a barrel finishing problem. Frank also uses Kreiger Barrels with the same chambering but this adds a little more than $100 to the price.

Last time I talked to John Holliger of White Oaks fame, he was reccommending Shilen barrels. Price will be a bit over $300. Chambering will be up to you, but I would really go with what John reccommend for your intents and purpose.

I have 2 Pac-Nor barrels finished by John Noveske. Excellent work and fantastic shooters. Priced @ $300, but well worth. Longest I waited for a barrel was three weeks. I got rid of my Lothar barrel on my AR10 and replaced it with a 24" Pac-Nor in .243. Vermon beware!

Not too much to say on the Shaw or Lothar barrels.


Link Posted: 5/5/2004 5:42:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 5:51:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 5:52:46 AM EST by Ghostface]
Originally posted by 223Rem:

I have 2 Pac-Nor barrels finished by John Noveske. Excellent work and fantastic shooters. Priced @ $300, but well worth. Longest I waited for a barrel was three weeks. I got rid of my Lothar barrel on my AR10 and replaced it with a 24" Pac-Nor in .243. Vermon beware!




What type of groups are shooting with this barrel? Also what chambering method does he use? How far out of you shot with this barrel? I asked about barrel choices for the AR-10 a few days ago and SniperX recomended him and I am trying to get as much feed back on this barrel that I can. Thanks!
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 6:59:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By newone2:
I am trying to figure out which barrel to purchase. I want a 24" stainless steel barrel but don't know whch maker makes the best and why. Please note the pros and cons for each. Some of the names may have been misspelled. Are there any other barrel makers who should be on the list?




Asking which is the "best" barrel is just like asking what is the "best" car, what is the "best" tire, what is the "best" beer, you get the picture. There are many factors which make up the total equation of what may be the "best" barrel for YOU and your intentions. Also, buying the "best" barrel may be all for naught if you have some half assed gunsmith chamber it and install it.

The questions I would ask are:

1. What type of shooting do you plan on doing, benchrest, varminting, competition, etc.?
2. At what distance(s) do you plan on doing most of your shooting?
3. What type of ammo are you going to put through it? Milsurp, reloads, factory match, etc.
4. What bullet weights will you be shooting?
5. Are you prepared to do the things that will bring out the utmost in accuracy for this rifle? I.E., are you using a top of the line scope, are you wanting to shoot FMJ bullets, etc.

All of this adds up to the answer that will best fit your needs. Just because you spend a lot of money does not necessarily mean you are going to get a sub MOA rifle. Just about all barrels will shoot with each other, but again, some won't. With a custom upper tier barrel your odds are much better to get a sub MOA rifle than say a low cost production grade barrel but that is not to say that there are not good, accurate production barrels out there.

I would suggest you contact a competent AR smith and see what he recommends. In fact, contact more than one.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:17:38 PM EST
BEST? Krieger NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

They are cut rifled, double cryoed and hand lapped.

Cut rifleing is better than broached. It is only done by a few firms (HS precision, Les Baer, and Walther, other than Krieger.)

Cryo-accurizing isn't BS, it does help quite a bit.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 2:25:29 PM EST
Almost every High-Power shooter I know around here uses the Pac-Nor barrels. They all say they feel the Pac-Nor is superior to the Kreiger.

CMOS
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 3:57:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 6:02:39 PM EST
the only experiance i have is with my new varmint model, it has a lothar walther and i couldnt ask for better performance. i shot sever groups under one moa with cheapo winchester white box. so just think what good ammo could prolly do.Bently
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 6:54:16 PM EST
Comparing a Wilson, Shaw, Lothar-Walther barrel to a Krieger, Pac-Nor, Hart, Shilen barrel is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. The former are production grade barrel makers. They make good barrels by the truckload for many large firearm manufacturers. The latter are custom barrel makers that make a relatively small number of barrels and spend a lot of time making sure each one is as good as they can make it. This is not to say that a Wilson or Lothar-Walther barrel is not going to shoot, but your odds of getting a great shooter are much better with the custom barrel makers, and your odds of getting a poor shooting barrel is greatly reduced.

I have used barrels from most of the major US barrel makers. I have settled on using Krieger, Shilen, and Pac-Nor for my custom uppers and barrels. While there are many more that can make a good barrel, finding one that will stand behind there product and deliver on schedule is sometimes hard.

John
www.whiteoakprecision.com
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 9:56:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 10:00:59 PM EST by Green0]
The guys I know who have Kriegers are shooting groups that measure .125in center to center at 100yds.

That's 1/8MOA. Granted they aren't hi-power iron-sighted shooters but 24inch varmint/spacegun rigs, but that is what this guy is talking about, unless I miss-understood him.

When you get down to groups that measure smaller than bullet diameter center to center, it's hard to tell which barrel is better, I don't have experience with other makers, Krieger is a local brand (Germantown WI), and it outshoots everything I have experience with so I assume it is the best. It has a loyal following around here, and most of the German/Polish benchrest guys use them.

My brother had a remington custom shop 40XC with a Hart barrel, but I didn't shoot it, he was getting 1/2MOA with .308 GM match, I wasn't impressed, but maybe that was him and not the barrel. (Obviously that is not an Ar-15, but it is my only experience with custom barrels, other than Krieger.)

MOA and even sub MOA is not what I'ld call a good return on investment with these barrels, my RRA DCM upper would shoot under 1/2MOA with a SS RRA/Wilson barrel, When $400+ is spent on the barrel alone, I wouldn't be happy with anything worse than 1/4MOA.


By the way if you buy a top rack barrel don't use shit factory ammo. At a minimum use BlackHills, and a better choice is to load your own ammo; only you can put ammo together with enough consistency to ring maximum accuracy out of a true match grade barrel.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 1:59:47 AM EST
I want to thank all who left me such helpful info/ for 400+ yard varmit shooting using Black Hill v-max bullets / ???1/8 or 1/9???? also note some shoot .243cal out of AR's - ??use same mags.??
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 7:21:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Green0:
BEST? Krieger NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

They are cut rifled, double cryoed and hand lapped.

Cut rifleing is better than broached. It is only done by a few firms (HS precision, Les Baer, and Walther, other than Krieger.)

Cryo-accurizing isn't BS, it does help quite a bit.



I 2nd this...Krieger, They shoot!
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 2:25:55 AM EST
Me love the Krieger! Krieger rocks!
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:12:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By newone2:
I want to thank all who left me such helpful info/ for 400+ yard varmit shooting using Black Hill v-max bullets / ???1/8 or 1/9???? also note some shoot .243cal out of AR's - ??use same mags.??



For long range AR shooting, suggest the faster 1/8, 1/7 twist barrels will do better as they will shoot a wider weight range of rounds, 45-90s.

FWIW, they don't shoot 243 caliber rounds outta an AR15, that's an AR10 rifle which is based on the NATO 7.62/308 rounds. You cannot fit a 243 round, (which uses the same brass as a 308) in an AR15 magazine you'll need an AR10 magazine and rifle for this caliber.

Mike
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 11:57:45 PM EST
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