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Posted: 9/18/2005 3:56:53 PM EDT
[#1]
I think everyone's realizing that now. I bought into the HBAR hype too, but now all my barrels are A2 profile.
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Posted: 9/18/2005 4:03:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Different strokes dude. I'll take the HBAR. Gubmint profile is stupid if you aren't mounting m203s I think.
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Posted: 9/18/2005 4:06:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Yeah, the gov't was pretty stupid for going to the heavier barrel profile on the M4.
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Posted: 9/18/2005 4:11:14 PM EDT
[#4]
I think HBARs are just fine on carbines, hardly any weight difference and they have some added advantages. On a 20" though, I think I would rather have the govt. profile.
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Posted: 9/18/2005 4:13:37 PM EDT
[#5]
They make sense for target or precision guns, but for something you want to carry alot, I'd rather have something skinny.
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Posted: 9/18/2005 4:16:30 PM EDT
[#6]
I have signed for 24 new from Colt M4s, they all have the standard profile. I believe only a very limited number of M4A1s are going to a modified H-bar, but all those are going to SOCOM type units. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 4:19:18 PM EDT
[#7]
didn't we just had this HBAR vs Gov't profile debate last week
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Posted: 9/18/2005 4:30:33 PM EDT
[#8]
one man's opinion |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 4:35:28 PM EDT
[#9]
My next AR is going to be a 20" government profile, but I do have a 14.5" HBAR.
In the 14.5" length, I'm not a fan of the M4 profile, the grenade launcher cutout seems inefficient (unless you really have the launcher) and it's only 1/2 lb more under the handguards. And a fluted 14.5" HBAR is only 2 tenths of a pound more than the M4 profile, and that's probably what I'd do if I wanted to lighten up my carbine. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 4:36:18 PM EDT
[#10]
I prefer HBAR carbines, personally. It'll stay accurate for a lot longer, won't burn your hand as quickly, it it really isn't very heavy at all. I can see either side's opinion on 20" rifles, though.
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Posted: 9/18/2005 4:49:16 PM EDT
[#11]
I got an HBAR 20", just cause I did not know any different when I bought my Ar. But, I carry it for 4-5 hours at a time while hog hunting and I don't have any problems. Get a good 3 point sling and have fun is the way I see it.
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Posted: 9/18/2005 4:52:27 PM EDT
[#12]
+1 Whatever works for you. That's the beauty of the AR. They can be had in so many configurations. 
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Posted: 9/18/2005 5:04:13 PM EDT
[#13]
I hate it when people say what Im going to say without a Refference or proof,
But I know I read somewhere that SOCOM was wanting the HBARs for Carbines because of the excess heat buildup in recent firefights and the ability of the Standard carbine profile to hold zero under extreme conditions of prolonged engagements. That may not have been the only reason but Im sure I read it somewhere, AND NO it was not from Gary Paul Johnson  . I am not a Big fan however of Goverment Profile 20" rifles either. I know from experiance there is a noticable shift in zero in Prolonged engagements. I prefer to have Steve at ADCO flute a 20" under the Tube. This does a Number of things including increasing surface area for cooling, stiffens the barrel to reduce warpage, and lighens to close enough to the same weight as a Givenment profile. Or at least my issue Colt M16A4 is damn close to my ADCO DMR, WHhixh I just decided to keep .Just my $.02 chuck |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 5:19:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Those are the barrels STLRN was referring to above. They come up for sale here and there, so we know what you're talking about. I think HBARs are fine for precision weapons, and medium contour barrels are a nice idea if you're free floating a carbine. But for a regular rifle you're going to be carrying, that isn't free floated, and that you're using with irons or a red dot, a gov't profile barrel is a really nice thing to have. You don't need an HBAR to shoot minute of badguy to 300m, so there's not much point carrying around all that extra weight. Bottom line, I think that just like the chrome vs. non-chrome issue, many people who got an HBAR previously when they were more common either didn't know or were too lazy to get anything else and now don't want to get new barrels, and many people who have yet to buy their AR's and needlessly buy HBARs either don't know the difference or are too lazy to take the extra 5 minutes to get a gov't or light profile. Look at the nice new uppers Bravo Co. is coming out with. Cost isn't an excuse anymore for the consumer. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 5:28:02 PM EDT
[#15]
+1 well said, This is true, for standard issue weapons, weight is a huge factor. cp |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 5:39:09 PM EDT
[#16]
I had a few HBARs, both carbine and rifle. They are ALL gone now. I love the light profile. If I was shooting a lot of FA or worried about bending my barrel while using my bayonet then maybe I'd go and get an HBAR.
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Posted: 9/18/2005 5:39:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Does anyone know the weight difference between the two?
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Posted: 9/18/2005 5:43:45 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 9/18/2005 5:52:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Would anybody be willing to tell me (AR newb) the differences of the Hbar and gov't profile barrels?
I think I have an idea, but I just want to be sure because I'm still in the market for my first AR and would like to know about what I'm getting into. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 6:01:04 PM EDT
[#20]
HBAR  Gov't profile 
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Posted: 9/18/2005 6:02:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Only HBAR I have is an 11.5". My M4 upper is government profile, and so is my 20". All run FA just fine.
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Posted: 9/18/2005 6:04:15 PM EDT
[#22]
Anybody know how the HBAR barrels and the RECCE barrels are similar or different?
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Posted: 9/18/2005 6:06:21 PM EDT
[#23]
When I got my first AR, I thought A2 profile WAS the HBAR. And no one told me any different, as when I went shopping, I saw rifles marked "A2" and they all had the HBAR. So I got a 20 inch heavy.
The first time I held an A1-type rifle, I was shocked at how light and well balanced it was. I eventually got a slabside SP-1 mixmaster. Of course, the AR addiction being what it is, I wasn't done there. I became obsessed with the true A2 Government Profile barrels and the fact that not one gun shop I went to, nor many AR manufacturers themselves, even offer it! I found that Bushy does sell them so I got an upper with A2 sights and a Government barrel. In many ways, this rifle is perfect; lighter and more balanced than my 20 inch HBAR but easier to shoot than my shorty and I know that extra velocity is there too. But even after 50 or 60 rounds, fired in less than an hour, I notice a very slight opening up on the target that isn't there with my HBAR. I guess the bottom line is, if I could only have one AR15, for target shooting, home defense, SHTF and everything, it would be my Gov. Profile. But thank goodness I can own more than one because my 20-inch HBAR is the most accurate rifle I've ever owned. I recently had the honor of advising a buddy in getting his very first AR. I thought long and hard about all the variations I could fill his head with. I finally decided all these choices would confuse him this early on. So, I urged him to go with a 20-inch and since HBARs were all they had at the gunshop, that's what he got. I figure once he gets to know that rifle, and sees how well he can shoot it, I can introduce him to my A1 and Gov. Profile rifles and see what he thinks. Enjoy your rifles, whatever "flavors" they are!  |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 6:12:06 PM EDT
[#24]
The difference between a 20-inch HBAR and a 20-inch Gov. Profile is ONE POUND.
I believe the difference between a 14.5 inch HBAR and 14.5 inch light barrel is half a pound- less length, less metal. That's not much when it's in your hand but it is noticable when it's hanging off the front end of your rifle. To put it another way, my fully loaded (30 round mag) Gov. Profile rifle weighs the same as an unloaded HBAR.  |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 6:22:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Gimme the ol' A1 any day!!!
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Posted: 9/18/2005 6:26:59 PM EDT
[#26]
You apparently do not shoot in any competition. Precision shooters that regularly shoot at 300, 500, & 600yds with the AR-15 A2 HBAR with the issue peep sights. The slightly heavier( about 1lb.) barrel makes a big difference in helping steadying the weapon and is generally more accurate, dampening vibrations. My HBAR has proven to me that the extra wieght was worth it. In 1995 at a CMP match in IL
my HBAR outshot 92 other competitors winning me first place. It has done that several other times befor and since. 
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Posted: 9/18/2005 6:27:20 PM EDT
[#27]
I like the HBAR.
I have both gov't profile 1/7, which will shift zero after prolonged firing; and the HBAR which does not, at least in any significant way. The extra weight does not bother me, since I also have FALs, which are a lot heavier. I suspect the HBAR is probably less prone to barrel whip. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 6:43:05 PM EDT
[#28]
I don't doubt it, but there are plenty of people here who are uninterested in competition shooting. There are pros and cons of each, and it is up to the individual to decide what works best for them. There are enough people being issued weapons and getting no choice, that those of us who aren't should be thankful for the options we have. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 6:47:57 PM EDT
[#29]
10-15 years ago HBAR's were very popular and and the govt profile was considered less desirable.
...funny how times change.
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Posted: 9/18/2005 7:00:23 PM EDT
[#30]
I don't care what's popular. What is this, High School?
I have 1 HBAR because it was a complete RRA upper and they don't have a LW option. My other 3 are Gov't profile(A2 20", M4 16", Mid 16"). I like that they swing from side to side much better. Competition is one thing, but I don't compete with my rifles. I have fun. Besides, your average 20" A2 HBAR balances WAY too forward, IMO. 20" Gov't profile is almost perfect. WIZZO |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 7:25:10 PM EDT
[#31]
IMO, all casual use ARs should have A1/SP1 profile barrels. I think the Govt. profile is stupid. Why turn it down in the middle then leave that fat barrel section out on the end? That can't be good for the harmonics of the barrel.
However, I do have a couple govt. profiles because it was a cost effective way to save weight and they don't make 20" or midlength 16" A1/SP1 profile barrels with 1/9 or 1/7 twist(if they do, they are very rare). I also have a free floated HBAR midlength carbine. I wouldn't want to haul it around all day, but it's very accurate. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 7:34:14 PM EDT
[#32]
The SOCOM M4A1 Hbar profile is NOT really an H-Bar the way we think of it.
It is really a mid weight profile; a bit heavier/thicker than a government profile but lighter/thinner than a "real H-Bar" |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 7:48:56 PM EDT
[#33]
"Pencil" thickness or superlight barrels for 16" rifles, as well as real M4 profile M4's and Govt profile 20" barrels are SUPERIOR to Hbars.
Hbars are totally bullshit. Of course, the useless-extra-weight apologists will always point to the special SOCOM barrels on M4's that are slightly thicker. These are "carbines" being used like SAW's by special forces. No one on this site (unless they own full auto) will blow or melt a govt/pencil barrel. The consumer market is slowly turning around and moving towards the proper barrel profile. This is because the market has grown tremendously, and there are more choices out there. Hbars are a creation of the commercial manufacturing sector to save machining costs. The demand for these will evaporate as people start getting clued into the real profile barrels. |
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Posted: 9/18/2005 7:51:31 PM EDT
[#34]
HBAR all the way. The little extra weight adds muzzle control while aiming. I have even added lead to other rifles forearms (non-AR) to add that little extra weight to steady the muzzle.
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Posted: 9/18/2005 8:17:29 PM EDT
[#35]
Someone wants H-Bar, more power to them. I dont like them, but thats MY money Im spending.
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Posted: 9/19/2005 4:29:24 AM EDT
[#36]
the weight of my HBAR remind me I have a real gun and not an Airsoft one
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Posted: 9/19/2005 5:03:20 AM EDT
[#37]
build some muscle and you wont notice the difference
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Posted: 9/19/2005 5:26:01 AM EDT
[#38]
Hope you don't apply the philosophy to your women 
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Posted: 9/19/2005 5:59:05 AM EDT
[#39]
 dont worry...only with guns |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 6:02:05 AM EDT
[#40]
And please don't think that I think that the HBAR is the only choice for everyone. My next 6.8SPC is going to have a govt. profile even if I have to turn it down myself. a true arfcommer has one or more of each!!
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Posted: 9/19/2005 6:05:41 AM EDT
[#41]
You'd think there's an 87 pound difference the way these fat bodies are carrying on and crying!
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Posted: 9/19/2005 6:07:46 AM EDT
[#42]
I love my 2 Colt green label HBAR's, they're a dream to shoot
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Posted: 9/19/2005 6:12:58 AM EDT
[#43]
Not me though, I like mine 10% lighter so you don't suffocate when having your pie!
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Posted: 9/19/2005 6:26:41 AM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 9/19/2005 6:39:56 AM EDT
[#45]
--HBARs are just fine on carbines--
I personal do not like the thin Gov profile barrels |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 6:43:53 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 9/19/2005 6:45:53 AM EDT
[#47]
1st time hearing that. |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 7:00:27 AM EDT
[#48]
No offense Capt, cause I am sure that the gun is quite accurate, but I am SURE that YOU had something to do with it also Heck, I could shoot for years and never beat 20 people at a match, much less 92. Good job! Doc |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 9:26:54 AM EDT
[#49]
Was'nt trying to brag on myself, just trying to point out the the HBAR can make a difference in accuracy. If acurracy is not imporatnt then we might as well be shooting AK's. And as I stated before the Govt. profile is usefull and my next build will be one. But to say that HBAR's are stupid is, well, STUPID!
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Posted: 9/19/2005 9:45:08 AM EDT
[#50]
Absolutely. I'd recommend an HBAR for anyone looking to do CMP style shooting, or (as I said before) anyone putting glass on it or making a precision rifle. As a basic weapon though, using the rounds most of us shoot (55gr ball), if you're planning to make 300 to 600 yard shots, you probably brought the wrong tool for the job. It's always funny when friends who own HBARs -- who don't shoot well enough to see any difference, and who don't shoot in competitions -- heft my A2. It's sort of a "WTF!" kind of moment. IIRC, a 16" HBAR is a little heavier than a 20" gov't profile. |
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