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Posted: 10/29/2006 6:06:02 AM EST

I am going to buy my first upper and have been reading through the posts here for months off and on. Found one that references another forum that has some pretty bad things to say about RRA. My lower is RRA and I was going get their upper. So I read some more and I am not sure what to beleive. Could folks with experience give me what they would get with the criteria below and I will just order the damn thing.

I want a 16'' mid length flat top - complete upper. Best option under $500?

I want a railed forend. Should I get this from factory or buy aftermarket? I would like to pay under $250 (if possible).

Was thinking RRA now thinking LMT what about fit and finish? Looked at Ranierarms site. Will the non-RRA upper fit on my RRA lower without a ballpeen hammer?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 6:42:56 AM EST
I put a RRA 16" mid-length flat top on a wilson tactical lower. The fit and finish of both products was great and the finish of the upper and lower macthed perfectly. The fit between the upper and lower was tight but after working the pins in and out a few times it got much better. The RRA upper has operated great with the first four hundred rounds. I have been very satisfied with RRA when I called a few times and asked questions. Adco seemed to have some of the best prices at the time. I am very happy with thie rupper and am now considering their varmint upper for my next build.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 8:26:40 AM EST
I picked up a RRA Mid length and Midwest Industries FF handguard from GDS Enterprises, (on the EE here) recently and couldn't be happier! Fit and finish on my RRA lower is pretty close to perfect. Quality upper and quality service from GDS.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 8:39:50 AM EST
My only beef with RRA is their ridiculous bull barrels they put on everything. If you want your rifle to weigh roughly a pound more than it needs to in a carbine then by all means, get RRA. I'll say that their quality is fine, and their fit and finish is as good as most any.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 8:57:06 AM EST
I have two RRA uppers. Both are excellent. RRA is one of the good ones. Without hesitation, I'd say buy one.

What did you read about them that was bad?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 9:21:52 AM EST
Ditto all of the above. I have a RRA middy, and couldn't be happier. I have considered having it lightened but haven't as yet.

Link Posted: 10/29/2006 10:01:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 10:34:15 AM EST
Love my RRA rifle ...but has the other gentlemen said RR needs to drop the bull barrel.

I would really like to see RRA make a SPR rifle ( 18in S.S Match barrel )
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 10:49:00 AM EST
Nothing wrong with RRA uppers, good stuff, what forum are you refering to?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 11:24:05 AM EST
Thanks for the replys.

The other forum has a lot of gun ranch trainers and operators on it. Some of the posters post the flaws with RRA. Basically they are not mil-spec, quality can be hit and miss. Specifically, dremel tooling the feed ramp, rail and buffer not mil spec, carrier key not pegged, even going auto, etc... Granted these guys are actually shooting these rifles a lot and teaching people in groups - they are seeing quantity at one time, not just pesonal weapons. So they are are, consequently, a little more critical of shortcomings that may not matter to the casual shooter.


I wonder about a LMT or BCM upper on my RRA lower.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 11:31:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 11:43:50 AM EST by RRA-A2]

Link Posted: 10/29/2006 12:04:54 PM EST
the out of spec buffer tube is a problem if you want to put a fancy stock on it later, like a magpul, becaues they are made to fit on the military size stocks. If youare not oging to change the stock I dont think it matters.

The ARs Pat Rogers mentions all have, I think MPI tested bolts, which supposed to cuts down on the chance of them failing. He has mentioned this in SWAT magazine before. CoLT, LMT, Bravo Co have them Ithink.

I dont know why RRA went to 2 stage tiggewrs, regular triggers are supopsedly more reilable, though I think you can order a RRA with the regular trigger.

The barrel steel is different in RRA v. those mentioned (bushmaster supposedly has the same steel). I don't know the technical differences and how it would affect most people
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 1:41:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Variable00:

Good info from people who see more Carbines in use in a month than most of us see in a lifetime.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 4:12:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 4:14:54 AM EST
its Ok.

I have one it works great

but the HBar sucks.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 11:48:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2006 11:49:10 AM EST by Mike_Mills]
My RRA carrier keys are staked correctly.

My bolts and cams are totally fine (so far).

Fit and finish was excellent.

I've never had a failure-to-feed.

Are these problems derived from experience with hard-use, full-auto weapons or from semi-auto ony weapons in the hands of civilians?

P.S. - are "M4 cuts" even necessary? I thought they were not. I think this is a red herring.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 12:12:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
Are these problems derived from experience with hard-use, full-auto weapons or from semi-auto ony weapons in the hands of civilians?

Depends on your definition of hard use. 1200rnds in three days in LE/Govt carbine classes.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 12:25:53 PM EST
That's not too bad unless it's that rate (400 rds/day) every day for a year or more. 1200 rounds in 3 days isn't too bad, all by itself.

Unstaked carrier keys is a problem with their assemblers and a QC problem (both missed it). It's easy to fix, even for the novice but should have never happened.

Are the "M4 cuts" really important? I've heard they are not.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 12:35:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:

Are the "M4 cuts" really important? I've heard they are not.

The conventional wisdom is they are only need on SBR's, full auto, and rifles used with JSP ammo.

However i have noticed that with the lackluster QC of currrent magazine manufacturing you will often get a bad mag that has a right feed bias. This is when feeding from the right side of the mag the bullet nose hits the wall of the upper receiver right below the brl extention instead of being fed into the chamber. With a non M4 upper this results in a stoppage, and the bullet being set back into the case next in the case of ammo with no crimp or a weak crimp. However with an M$ upper the bullet tip hits the feedramp and is guided into the chamber.

So one benifit of M4 brl extenisions/uppers is a mag that will cause stoppages in a non M4 upper will still run in an M4 upper.

For and explanation of why this right feed bias occurs see Larry's comments in this thread.


Anyone who carries a AR pattern Carbine in harms way would be well served to take an armorers course to learn how to diagnose these problems and correct them the first time.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 5:10:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2006 5:13:20 PM EST by LongRange762]
I have a complete RRA and couldn't be happier with anything else escept maybe a Noveske but that's neither here nor there, yeah the barrel's a little heavy but this is a man's game, if you can't handle the weight start playing golf. You can buy a Rock River upper and feel confident that you are getting good quality weapon that will work when you tell it to. You can get Surefire rails from RRA but I recommend the Midwest Industries rails if you want something of great quality and price, cheaper than a Surefire unit no less, you shouldn't have a problem finding some around here.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 10:35:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2006 10:37:54 PM EST by Gimme_A_Carbine]
RRA makes good stuff. It's not my fav, however.

As stated, the HBARs are about as cool as a kick in the balls.

As stated, the steel used is 4140, as opposed to 4150.

Also, unless I've missed out on something, RRA barrels are only availible in 1/9, unless you get stainless, in which case you have 1/8. To plenty of people it's a moot point, but conversely, plenty of people desire a twist rate of 1/7.

My favorite M4gery uppers are the LMT 14.5" with perm Phantom or Vortex. They are of very high quality in terms of fit and finish. They gov't profile under the handguards, which creates a much more balanced firearm than an HBAR. They are chromelined with a 1/7 twist, and made of 4150 steel. On full auto, they run like a junky towards a sign reading "Free Crack Giveaway."

Without going Colt, they're my favorite-compared to RRA, BM, Armalite, etc.

I'd say that since you're already considering LMT, you're ready to pony up the extra cash, which makes it a no brainer. That's just me though.

Where are you in NC. Shoot me and IM, and depending on where you are, you can maybe play with my LMT.

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