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Posted: 9/14/2009 3:09:34 AM EST
knowing this has probably been beat to the ground, i wanted to inquire in overall price comparison and accuracy to 1KM. I am building an SPR for my wife and I am having a hard time deciding on the caliber. I love all the paper behind the grendel and the fact that it works on an AR-15 platform, but it seems like to "new" of a round and such doesnt have a big support group. On the other hand we have the .308, trusted and trued, but with a nasty kick of extra weight. The proposed build is currently being speced to be 24" on a bipod with enidine buffer and a Magpul PRS stock. Should I stick with the grendel and do it ar-15 style or would the .308 be better? I reload so either would require the dies and setup incurred with that. most of our shooting will be 200-500 yards but I want to hit some 1k ranges with it too.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 3:21:45 AM EST

You reload. Buy the Grendel.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 4:38:29 AM EST
that simple eh? :D like i said, it does look impressive, and the fact its AR-15 platform means I can REALLY make a custom rifle, i'm limited in options if I go .308, i'd really liek to hear from some grendel owners, hear how they like it and how they group on paper
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 6:57:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By cyberhedz:
that simple eh? :D like i said, it does look impressive, and the fact its AR-15 platform means I can REALLY make a custom rifle, i'm limited in options if I go .308, i'd really liek to hear from some grendel owners, hear how they like it and how they group on paper


The 6.5 bullets are the key part, they are very efficient. But you are not limited to Grendel. If you are interested in the larger 308 sized rifle, the 260 remington or newer 6.5 creedmoor worth a look. They are dominating many practical long range matches. They have a few hundred fps over the grendel. You could probably get better performace in a 20" 260 than from a 24" grendel. The weight issue becomes more relative at that point.

I just like the 308 cause everything is easier to find and cheaper: brass, bullets, etc.


Link Posted: 9/14/2009 7:08:25 AM EST
If your wife intends to be seriously competitive at 1000 yards on a tournament level, she'd be better served with one of the bigger 6.5s, such as .260 Rem., 6.5 Creedmoor, or 6.5x47 Lapua.

But if she wants to have damn good ballistic performance with relatively mild recoil in a smaller and handier AR15 package, in other words, FUN, the 6.5 Grendel is a no-brainer.

And the "support group" for the 6.5 Grendel cartridge is steadily growing, now that an as-yet-unannounced major U.S. ammo manufacturer has inked a deal to produce 6.5 Grendel.

John

| 6.5 Grendel: The Tier One AR Cartridge. |

www.65grendel.com
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 7:15:56 AM EST
far from tournaments, we just like to have fun hitting zombies at teh range. i think you guys are all just reaffirming my first choice of teh grendel
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 7:21:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 4:02:32 AM EST by Cold]
edited, off topic, stay on point or refrain from posting, IM SENT ~Cold
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 8:05:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 4:02:25 AM EST by Cold]
edited, off topic, stay on point or refrain from posting, IM SENT ~Cold
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 8:29:42 AM EST
I did not mention teh 6.8 because I was not impressed with it, its exactly in the middle of the performance ladder, slightly better than 5.56 but not as good as 7.62. The grendel however, from what I have seen is vastly better than a 5.56 and nipping on the heels if not outperforming some factory loaded 7.62.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 9:33:18 AM EST
I went through the same issues over the past few years. I like the 308 and I have several rifles in that caliber. I also reload. Anyway, I opted for a STAG model 5 (?) upper in 6.8 and it was a nice weight and balance with a lot more power over the 5.56, BUT I was not impressed at all with the accuracy out of that rifle. After messing with this upper for about a year I sold it off and bought a DPMS LR-308B. This is a well made rifle and a lot more accurate in my case than the 6.8 SPC, but this thing is quite heavy and the recoil impulse was more than what I wanted to do to myself for the sake of having fun. So I sold that off right after the election and I ordered an Alexander Arms "Hunter" upper and I built the lower while I was waiting on the upper. I finally got the upper the last week of July. I have only had it out to the range once so far, but it shoots great (accuracy) and is easy on the shoulder. The down side is that the magazines seem to be a weak spot and ammo is expensive and not too easy to find (for now). I am still trying to debug my build and I hope to go to the range soon to see if I got everything fixed.

As for the 260 rem and creedmore, I had thought about those as well. But with the larger size of the guns and increased weight v/s the lighter weight of the AR-15 platform and the ballistics of the Grendel round made my choice easier. Go for the Grendel.

My .02

Indy
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 9:33:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 4:05:51 AM EST by Cold]
Originally Posted By Grendelizor:
Originally Posted By TACKDRIVER68:edited, off topic, stay on point or refrain from posting, IM SENT ~Cold.


edited, off topic, stay on point or refrain from posting, IM SENT ~Cold


Well, you did mention the .260 and the 6.5 Creedmore. Oh wait, we're talking about 1000-yard cartridges...

(BTW - I just got my backordered AA ammo today - 123gr. Lapua Scenar HP) WOOHOOOO!!!! Can't wait for the 'as-yet-unamed' big ammo maker to be announced.)
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 10:07:16 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 11:29:44 AM EST
Grendel. I love mine and out to 200 yrds it is keeping my reloads to under .750" I am still playing with the load and think that will come down. I have not tried this on longer ranges yet. I want to have it dialed in before reaching farther out. Brass is becoming more available all the time.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 1:14:13 PM EST
If you want to hit 1km you can 'do' it with the Grendel or .308, but I'd stick with the .308 platform and go .260 rem, or 6.5 creedmoor. In respects to external and terminal ballistics, the latter choices are going to outperform any 6.5 cal projectile from an AR-15.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 2:44:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 4:06:12 AM EST by Cold]
edited, off topic, stay on point or refrain from posting, IM SENT ~Cold
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 3:23:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2009 3:24:26 PM EST by bigduck73]
I have a DPMS LR-260, and a Home built Grendel, I have shot the 260 much more, however the Grendel is by far my favorite. Nice "light" rifle, very accurate (havn't shot it at paper, sighted it in in the field) and if you can get the Wolf ammo, way cheaper to shoot than factory 260 ammo.
But I still like the idea of the 260
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 4:12:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 4:06:21 AM EST by Cold]
edited, off topic, stay on point or refrain from posting, IM SENT ~Cold
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 4:30:52 PM EST
I've pretty much settled with the grendel, for what I plan to do, it really does sound perfect, and John, expect a call soon, probably around Christmas time
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 5:22:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2009 5:44:46 PM EST by eracer]

Edited.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 5:24:46 PM EST
The Grendel has been around long enough and has a big following.

That said I had the same dilema as you and went with the Grendel. I read alot of problems about the mags but I think that issue is getting resolved. I bought some C-product mags and haven't had any problems. If you do find a problem with the mags there is a sticky at 65grendel.com which has a lot of information about fixes.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 5:32:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By GrantMan:
The Grendel has been around long enough and has a big following.

That said I had the same dilema as you and went with the Grendel. I read alot of problems about the mags but I think that issue is getting resolved. I bought some C-product mags and haven't had any problems. If you do find a problem with the mags there is a sticky at 65grendel.com which has a lot of information about fixes.


They should boycott all Cproducts mags until they fix quality control
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 7:11:28 PM EST
I built a DM type 6.5mm Grendel rifle with a 20 inch barrel and am very pleased.
It averages .3 inch with AA's 123 grain load. With Wolf's cheapo 120 grain MPT load
it will cluster 10 rounds in the center of a LaRue at 600 yards.

I'm stretching my range to 800 yards so hope to see how it does at this distance soon.
It's a very forgiving rifle and easy to shoot. We have a bit of wind here in Kansas and its
much more tolerant of the wind at 600 yards than a 5.56.

I went back and forth over building a .308 gas gun, built a few and am much happier
with the Grendel. Lighter, handier and does everything I need. If I need to reach further
then I'm using a .300 Win Mag bolt gun.

I have about 30 mags and have no issues with mine. Their QC is not the best, but mine
work fine.

In November Grendel ammo is being introduced by a top Tier US ammo maker and at
SHOT there will be a big announcement by one of the largest firearms manufacturers
in the country (actually I suppose it could be two).

either .308 or 6.5mm Grendel, you will be quite happy......
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 8:11:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gunwritr:
I built a DM type 6.5mm Grendel rifle with a 20 inch barrel and am very pleased.
It averages .3 inch with AA's 123 grain load. With Wolf's cheapo 120 grain MPT load
it will cluster 10 rounds in the center of a LaRue at 600 yards.

I'm stretching my range to 800 yards so hope to see how it does at this distance soon.
It's a very forgiving rifle and easy to shoot. We have a bit of wind here in Kansas and its
much more tolerant of the wind at 600 yards than a 5.56.

I went back and forth over building a .308 gas gun, built a few and am much happier
with the Grendel. Lighter, handier and does everything I need. If I need to reach further
then I'm using a .300 Win Mag bolt gun.

I have about 30 mags and have no issues with mine. Their QC is not the best, but mine
work fine.

In November Grendel ammo is being introduced by a top Tier US ammo maker and at
SHOT there will be a big announcement by one of the largest firearms manufacturers
in the country (actually I suppose it could be two).

either .308 or 6.5mm Grendel, you will be quite happy......


Gunwritr,

You're killing me with the suspense...any hints? BTW, I ventured a guess on 65Grendel Forum that it's going to be Hornady, others eluded that it's going to be either Barnes, Remington, or Federal, time will tell.

Cheers,

Sakic #19
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 8:53:15 PM EST
i've owned both i prefer the .308 but i used it for a brush hunting rifle and even as a .308 carbine its heavy compared to the 6.5 which was the only thing i liked about it .
lots of stuff out there to help tame the recoil such as special buffers and muzzle breaks

if your wife is gonna be carrying it perhaps the 6.5 would be better
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 10:41:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By Joe_Sakic:
Originally Posted By Gunwritr:
I built a DM type 6.5mm Grendel rifle with a 20 inch barrel and am very pleased.
It averages .3 inch with AA's 123 grain load. With Wolf's cheapo 120 grain MPT load
it will cluster 10 rounds in the center of a LaRue at 600 yards.

I'm stretching my range to 800 yards so hope to see how it does at this distance soon.
It's a very forgiving rifle and easy to shoot. We have a bit of wind here in Kansas and its
much more tolerant of the wind at 600 yards than a 5.56.

I went back and forth over building a .308 gas gun, built a few and am much happier
with the Grendel. Lighter, handier and does everything I need. If I need to reach further
then I'm using a .300 Win Mag bolt gun.

I have about 30 mags and have no issues with mine. Their QC is not the best, but mine
work fine.

In November Grendel ammo is being introduced by a top Tier US ammo maker and at
SHOT there will be a big announcement by one of the largest firearms manufacturers
in the country (actually I suppose it could be two).

either .308 or 6.5mm Grendel, you will be quite happy......


Gunwritr,

You're killing me with the suspense...any hints? BTW, I ventured a guess on 65Grendel Forum that it's going to be Hornady, others eluded that it's going to be either Barnes, Remington, or Federal, time will tell.

Cheers,

Sakic #19


Well, Barnes is not even in the running.....so they are out.
I could be wrong, but it could actually be two, not one, major ammo manufacturers.....
If it's two I should know in a few weeks.....
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 8:05:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 9:43:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By cyberhedz:
The proposed build is currently being speced to be 24" on a bipod with enidine buffer and a Magpul PRS stock. Should I stick with the grendel and do it ar-15 style or would the .308 be better?

So... Something like this?



I went with the Grendel.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 11:06:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By BlahBlah:
Originally Posted By cyberhedz:
The proposed build is currently being speced to be 24" on a bipod with enidine buffer and a Magpul PRS stock. Should I stick with the grendel and do it ar-15 style or would the .308 be better?

So... Something like this?

http://www.micahschmidt.com/pics/aa_24_sass/aa_24_full_rt.jpg

I went with the Grendel.

Atsa verrrrrrry nice!
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 5:32:02 PM EST
DUDE, yes, thats it the side charging handle, billet receiver, damn, thats almost exactly how I pictured it, sweet
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 6:21:15 PM EST
That side charger is really handy when shooting prone.

Actually, the 24" is my second favorite AR. My favorite is my 18" Grendel. I'll have to post some pics of sometime.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 6:27:45 PM EST
Grendel. You can even use 7.62x39 brass (once you resize and fireform it). It can be finicky at first to get it running just right, but once done it is a pleasure to shoot, low recoil, and you can use any AR-15 lower (which allows you to use tons of accessories, triggers, etc.).

I love my Grendel, and look forward to passing it on to the wife when I get my OSR rifle so we can both go head-to-head at the range over long distances.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 6:36:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By CORNHOLIO1:
Originally Posted By GrantMan:
The Grendel has been around long enough and has a big following.

That said I had the same dilema as you and went with the Grendel. I read alot of problems about the mags but I think that issue is getting resolved. I bought some C-product mags and haven't had any problems. If you do find a problem with the mags there is a sticky at 65grendel.com which has a lot of information about fixes.


They should boycott all Cproducts mags until they fix quality control
Who else makes 'hi-cap' 6.5 magazines besides C-Products?



I think C-products are the only ones.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 4:01:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 4:08:21 AM EST by Cold]
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:43:55 AM EST
The proposed build is currently being speced to be 24" on a bipod with enidine buffer and a Magpul PRS stock.


Before you use an enidine buffer on a Grendel build, you should read this:

Enidine Buffer/ Grendel issue
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 10:07:45 AM EST
i plan to get the enidine from AA, so that's not an issue. and blahblah, what handguard is that?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 10:58:36 AM EST
Looks like a JP/VTAC
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:23:25 AM EST
sweet, thanks
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 1:20:46 PM EST
I have been on the fence about getting a 6.5 or a DPMS .308 for some time and finally decided on the 6.5. As much as I like the .308 round, the 6.5 is in the AR15 platform, which is lighter and handier. In .308, the AR system isn't as handy weight wise. The .308 isn't horribly heavy, but the .223/6.5 is just about perfect. So I will stick with my FAL & Saiga-308 in the .308 caliber. I will eventually add a .308 bolt action as well.

It also helps that Wolf makes plinking ammo which is similar in price to .308 surplus. I can get AA ammo for target work and hunting. I used to reload years ago when I was in Hawai'i and it wasn't cheap to have ammo shipped in. When I moved to AZ, between surplus and Wolf, I wasn't 'saving' enough to make it worth my time to reload. So Wolf is a great option for plinking.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 2:33:56 PM EST
Here's a pic of mine


It's a great piece. It shoots Wolf's 120 grain MPT load so well at 600 yards that I feed
it that for blasting steel. Much handier than a .308...
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 4:05:04 PM EST
This is off topic, but what gloves are those?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 4:21:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 4:23:21 PM EST by Gunwritr]
Originally Posted By Powder_Burns:
This is off topic, but what gloves are those?


Vickers Combat Gloves, work great
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 4:27:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:21:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 5:22:19 PM EST by IndyGrendel63]
And what about that magazine? It doesn't look like a C-Products magazine. I am looking for other options for my Grendel. I guess I could take a dremel to some old mil-surp mags, but I would rather not do that.

Oh, and a very nice rig as well. What handguard is that? Me likey.

Indy
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:15:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By Cold:
Originally Posted By Gunwritr:
Here's a pic of mine
http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss273/Gunwritr/GDMRreduced.jpg

It's a great piece. It shoots Wolf's 120 grain MPT load so well at 600 yards that I feed
it that for blasting steel. Much handier than a .308...


Thats a sharp lookin rig. I dont remember seeing the paint job back when you posted pics of the yote you busted sometime last year.



I busted the coyote with my 16 inch gun which is a plain jane low buck AA upper.
This is my only other Grendel, a 20 inch with Saturn barrel......
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:17:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 8:28:10 PM EST by Gunwritr]
Originally Posted By IndyGrendel63:
And what about that magazine? It doesn't look like a C-Products magazine. I am looking for other options for my Grendel. I guess I could take a dremel to some old mil-surp mags, but I would rather not do that.

Oh, and a very nice rig as well. What handguard is that? Me likey.

Indy


Mag is C Products
Handguard is a prototype I've been working on, based on AA's lightweight handguards.

Alexander Arms handguard
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 9:20:54 PM EST
I was debating the same choices myself just a few weeks back. I ended up going with the .308 and I reload too.

Here's what swayed me:

1. If the doo-doo hits the proverbial fan, .308 ammo will be a lot easier to find than 6.5 Grendel. You can currently purchase it ANYWHERE that sells rifle ammo and there's a lot more .308 rifles out there than 6.5G.

2. Magpul and Larue are both coming out with good mags for it. Not that the DPMS mags suck, but they can be improved.

3. I have a bunch of .308 brass and ammo already.

4. I have other .308's (caliber commonality) and adding 6.5G to the mix would mean I would have to buy another set of dies and stock up on 6.5G brass and boolits.

5. .308 has been around forever and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Someone could fart and the wind change directions and 6.5G could become "just another wildcat they loaded back in the 00's".

As for some of the weight advantage of the 6.5G...the .308 rifle is only about .5-.75 lb heavier all things being equal (barrel, stock, forend, etc). This is basically in the longer upper/lower receivers and BCG. Other than that, it is almost identical to a standard AR15 in size/weight.

Not trying to talk you out of it, just making a case for .308. Your goals for the rifle are different than mine.

YMMV.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 4:42:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gunwritr:
Originally Posted By Cold:
Originally Posted By Gunwritr:
Here's a pic of mine
http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss273/Gunwritr/GDMRreduced.jpg

It's a great piece. It shoots Wolf's 120 grain MPT load so well at 600 yards that I feed
it that for blasting steel. Much handier than a .308...


Thats a sharp lookin rig. I dont remember seeing the paint job back when you posted pics of the yote you busted sometime last year.



I busted the coyote with my 16 inch gun which is a plain jane low buck AA upper.
This is my only other Grendel, a 20 inch with Saturn barrel......


Low Buck AA upper!!! What are you drinking/smoking? I haven't seen a cheap AA upper. Just razzing ya.

Hey, is that a AA "Hunter" upper in the pic you posted there? Looks like the AA "Muzzle device" to me. That hunter upper is what I just got last month. Taking it to the range again tomorrow. I hope it works better this time.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 5:18:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By AceV:2. Magpul and Larue are both coming out with good mags for it. Not that the DPMS mags suck, but they can be improved.


Speaking of LaRue, they've given some very strong hints that they plan to produce a 65G product, eventually.

Not trying to talk you out of it, just making a case for .308. Your goals for the rifle are different than mine.


Absolutely, and that's what all these discussions must keep in mind.

John

| 6.5 Grendel: The Tier One AR Cartridge. |

www.65grendel.com

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:38:08 AM EST
I had an Armalite AR-10 stock carbine and it was about 2 pounds heavier than a stock M4 carbine. I believe most of the weight was in the barrel profile. The .308 was very thick at the chamber compared to the .223 barrel (or 6.5). Not to mention the barrel is thicker in dia. Then you add the carrier, receivers, metal mag, .308 rounds. When you add it all up, it is noticeably heavier than a similar set up .223 gun. The .308 isn't horribly heavy nor has overly bad handling. But the .223 carbine with a Govt profile barrel is just about optimal. Nobody can argue the handiness of a stock M4 carbine. So the .223 platform is the way to go. If we could get a .308 on the AR15 platform, nobody would even look at the 6.5 or 6.8. Hell, if we could get 7.62x39mm with decent ammo and mags that worked, that might has also kept the other rounds at bay, although not for long.

With that said, the .308 is a round that is hard to look pass. The 6.5 is a fix to try and get .223 platforms closer to .308. If I didn't have several .308 semi rifles, I wouldn't even look at the 6.5. If the poop goes down, I am grabbing my FAL along with many spare mags. I absolutely agree if you are buying it to be your main defensive gun, go with .308 instead of 6.5. You can find the round at Walmart out in rural America if you need to. I have never been to a gun store that didn't have it, unless they sold out. On the other hand, I haven't been to a gun store that even stocks 6.5, although I have heard that Cabelas now stocks it here in Phoenix. But since it is a play and hunting rifle for me, I don't mind having to search for ammo. I already have enough .223, 7.62x39 & .308 if I need them. Hell, I have a .45-70 that is easier to get ammo for than 6.5 right now. Hopefully that ammo situation will change. But either way, I will buy another .308 on the AR platform in the future as well.

Besides performance and being on the AR15 platform, Wolf ammo has swayed me to the 6.5 over the 6.8. At $12-15 per 20rd box, it is actually pretty reasonably priced. Surplus .308 & .223 FMJ runs similarly in price and has for several years. If I am going to plink with a bigger bore rifle, I might as well do it with the 6.5. It has kind of been a blessing that I have been so busy with work and life to not make it to the range nearly as much as I want to. With the ammo shortage and cost, I have been able to save tons of money as I am working (making money) instead of shooting it. But either way, the 6.5 is primarily a play gun for me that I can take hunting if I need to. If it impresses me enough, it may make it to my defensive firearm list, but that is pretty much taken up right now and will be hard to beat (Benelli 12ga, FAL, Sig 220, AR15 SBR, AR15 SPR, S&W J-Frame).
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 9:21:54 AM EST
I think for what the OP wants (Long Range performance, light package and low recoil), the 6.5 Grendel is the best choice.

While an AR-10 type platform offers more options as to caliber, it is a heavier platform with more recoil. The OP said this setup would be for his wife so minimizing weight and recoil are important.

And sorry but since the OP wants Long Range performance out to 1000 meters, the 6.8 SPC is out of the running. The Grendel smokes it past 600 yards.



Link Posted: 9/18/2009 11:08:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 11:10:43 AM EST by Gunwritr]

Low Buck AA upper!!! What are you drinking/smoking? I haven't seen a cheap AA upper. Just razzing ya.

Hey, is that a AA "Hunter" upper in the pic you posted there? Looks like the AA "Muzzle device" to me. That hunter upper is what I just got last month. Taking it to the range again tomorrow. I hope it works better this time.


My 16 inch upper is one of these
16 inch Alexander Arms upper

When I bought mine a few years ago it was about $540, they are $630 now. Great piece.

Nope, that is not a Hunter. It has a fluted Saturn match barrel, GDMR gas block and flash suppressor, prototype handguard.
Be interested to see how well your Hunter shoots.

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