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Posted: 2/15/2017 9:26:47 AM EDT
Why can't someone make a $300 Green Laser??

I would like a decent one. but don't need to spend $600-$1K

Am I missing something?
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 9:37:29 AM EDT
[#2]
tag
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 9:38:31 AM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 9:46:42 AM EDT
[#4]
Visible lasers are a little overrated, but Beamshot is decent for the price.
I've got an original 1000 in a custom offset mount, but you can use a rigid, small flashlight mount for a lower profile.

https://www.beamshot.com/beamshot-greenbeam-1000-p-16693.html?OBNsid=d63c2a3ca4bb8d6816256b1dbd05692b


The 1000's are ~$170 on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/BEAMSHOT-GB1000-Daylight-Battery-Included/dp/B00ANZ9ORC?tag=vglnk-c102-20
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 11:29:10 AM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 12:19:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Out of stock
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes


Check with various dealers like OpticsPlanet and others.




BTW, OP didn't ask for an instock green laser, he asked for an inexpensive one.
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 4:06:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Also, OP could buy a DBAL I2 with green last and IR laser and just never use the IR settings (or use the fact that he has an IR laser to fuel a future NOD  purchase, but I digress).


$850 @TNVC. (Can find them used on EE for significant savings).
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 5:29:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Also, OP could buy a DBAL I2 with green last and IR laser and just never use the IR settings (or use the fact that he has an IR laser to fuel a future NOD  purchase, but I digress).


$850 @TNVC. (Can find them used on EE for significant savings).
View Quote


Arms Unlimited has the DBAL-I2 (green vis/IR) for $750.
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 5:38:30 PM EDT
[#9]
$850 aint 350.

The problem when I researched it is that 1) lasers are now limited in output, 2) green uses a standard laser but filters it for the viridian color, making it inefficient 3) the result is poor daylight use - it's hard to see a mini dot of light in broad daylight. At night if the dot is small then its still hard to see on some backgrounds.

I went looking for one that focuses like a tactical flashlight, because ID'ing the target is still an issue. So I looked for one I could make a 12" dot at 21 feet and that ran up against a brick wall even faster. The more I looked the quicker they sold out and I couldn't make my budget move any faster or increase the upper limit.

Frankly we are stuck with lasers $400 and up. For now.
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 7:31:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
CLICK ON ME
View Quote


IM sent
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 9:46:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Why can't someone make a $300 Green Laser??

I would like a decent one. but don't need to spend $600-$1K

Am I missing something?
View Quote
crimson trace website
Link Posted: 2/15/2017 9:58:22 PM EDT
[#12]
I have an older version This Model of Crimson Trace. It is pretty damn amazing! You can see it way off! Its bright, decent battery life even works well below freezing from my playing with it. Although it's on my AR pistol only for alternative sighting for home defense. It is very bright and easy to see.

Hmm just noticed that model had a white light. Mine was cheaper, it's only the green laser.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 12:17:23 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
$850 aint 350.

The problem when I researched it is that 1) lasers are now limited in output, 2) green uses a standard laser but filters it for the viridian color, making it inefficient 3) the result is poor daylight use - it's hard to see a mini dot of light in broad daylight. At night if the dot is small then its still hard to see on some backgrounds.

I went looking for one that focuses like a tactical flashlight, because ID'ing the target is still an issue. So I looked for one I could make a 12" dot at 21 feet and that ran up against a brick wall even faster. The more I looked the quicker they sold out and I couldn't make my budget move any faster or increase the upper limit.

Frankly we are stuck with lasers $400 and up. For now.
View Quote


A. Title of the thread asked about green lasers under $1K.
B. I dont think modern green laser tech requires a filter (not 100% on this though). I think that's part of the reason it's expensive. @TNVC could shed light on this.
C. Green lasers from reputable companies are easier to see at much longer distances than red lasers from the same companies.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 12:46:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 8:26:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
MOST of the Chinese Green Laser are still infrared and splitting the frequency to achieve "Green".

Unless they have a CORRECT, PROPERLY INSTALLED I.R. filter they are DANGEROUS!

Osram offers a true direct Green laser without the dangers of a DPSS laser.

Here is a link to an article I posted on dangers of a DPSS laser http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-ps90-accessories-mods/63596-cheap-green-chinese-lasers-dangerous.html
View Quote

Exactly. I don't think (not 100% sure) that Steiner is using cheap Chinese diodes.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 8:42:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 3/7/2017 11:06:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Thanks to Steathly B I now have what I was looking for...for under $200.



I was never a big Laser fan until they started coming out with green, and while I agree with many that lasers have a limited use on a rifle, They can be excellent in close quarters and limited light for fast and accurate shooting. I wanted to try one, but I did not want to invest $600 plus on a large unit that adds more weight to the front end.

The Lasermax rifle kit was just the ticket.


It takes up a small amount of space with one MLOK rail.



The mounting system works very well and allows me to place my thumb where I normally do to activate the laser.



You zero it at 10 yds. It runs on two 3 volt 1/3N Batteries (same as an Aimpoint M2) and its a 5mw laser that you can see on a bright sunny day out to 10-25 yds depending..

Is it battle ready? Don't know, but it's small profile lends it to be less prone to dings and knocks thru normal use. I'm going to play with it for the summer and see how I like it.

Most of us do not need a $600-$1K visible laser. And this is just what I was looking for.
Link Posted: 3/8/2017 8:40:16 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks to Steathly B I now have what I was looking for...for under $200.
http://i.imgur.com/N9x03lG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uZHffM2.jpg

I was never a big Laser fan until they started coming out with green, and while I agree with many that lasers have a limited use on a rifle, They can be excellent in close quarters and limited light for fast and accurate shooting. I wanted to try one, but I did not want to invest $600 plus on a large unit that adds more weight to the front end.

The Lasermax rifle kit was just the ticket.

http://i.imgur.com/gYLqrob.jpg
It takes up a small amount of space with one MLOK rail.

http://i.imgur.com/yNBYDUW.jpg

The mounting system works very well and allows me to place my thumb where I normally do to activate the laser.

http://i.imgur.com/g3eSIWH.jpg

You zero it at 10 yds. It runs on two 3 volt 1/3N Batteries (same as an Aimpoint M2) and its a 5mw laser that you can see on a bright sunny day out to 10-25 yds depending..

Is it battle ready? Don't know, but it's small profile lends it to be less prone to dings and knocks thru normal use. I'm going to play with it for the summer and see how I like it.

Most of us do not need a $600-$1K visible laser. And this is just what I was looking for.
View Quote


Thanks for the write up. I'm looking for a laser to run on my .22 AR so I don't need battle ready.
Link Posted: 3/8/2017 9:54:33 AM EDT
[#20]
I use a Viridian X5L.
Link Posted: 3/8/2017 4:03:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks to Steathly B I now have what I was looking for...for under $200.
http://i.imgur.com/N9x03lG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uZHffM2.jpg

I was never a big Laser fan until they started coming out with green, and while I agree with many that lasers have a limited use on a rifle, They can be excellent in close quarters and limited light for fast and accurate shooting. I wanted to try one, but I did not want to invest $600 plus on a large unit that adds more weight to the front end.

The Lasermax rifle kit was just the ticket.

http://i.imgur.com/gYLqrob.jpg
It takes up a small amount of space with one MLOK rail.

http://i.imgur.com/yNBYDUW.jpg

The mounting system works very well and allows me to place my thumb where I normally do to activate the laser.

http://i.imgur.com/g3eSIWH.jpg

You zero it at 10 yds. It runs on two 3 volt 1/3N Batteries (same as an Aimpoint M2) and its a 5mw laser that you can see on a bright sunny day out to 10-25 yds depending..

Is it battle ready? Don't know, but it's small profile lends it to be less prone to dings and knocks thru normal use. I'm going to play with it for the summer and see how I like it.

Most of us do not need a $600-$1K visible laser. And this is just what I was looking for.
View Quote


I had the IR version of this. Is was perfect for the price.

Not waterproof though and if you press or put pressure on it you can move its zero. It tropically returns to zero when you stop pressing on it so I never found it to be a big deal. Just make sure to not mount it on the bottom Gold your rail so you don't end up resting the gun on it.
Link Posted: 3/8/2017 5:10:48 PM EDT
[#22]
I was going to suggest lasermax.  I have the red one.  So why green over red?   I've yet to actually shoot with mine because first off, I've shot a pistol with a laser before and I didn't like it.  Secondly, all the people in the know say there is such limited us for them.  Like smoke / haze....   But inside a house, you can see it well.  Even in the daytime.  It is really hard to see on a bright day, outside.   I've been toying with the idea of having this instead of BUIS with a good optic.  Weighs less than an ounce.

Let me know what you think of yours Harv.  But why green over red?  

Link Posted: 3/8/2017 5:15:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
But why green over red?  
View Quote


Green is much more visible to the human eye and will appear much brighter than an equivalently powerful red laser.

Link Posted: 3/8/2017 9:31:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Green is much more visible to the human eye and will appear much brighter than an equivalently powerful red laser.

http://www.onceinnovations.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Human-vision-color-reception.jpg
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
But why green over red?  


Green is much more visible to the human eye and will appear much brighter than an equivalently powerful red laser.

http://www.onceinnovations.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Human-vision-color-reception.jpg


Yup.. This... its why Night vision is green.Us Humans see green the best. You can see it in daylight, Red... forget it.
I won't be using a laser for precision, that's what the scope is for. I want the laser for close in Night/Day,
Link Posted: 3/9/2017 5:28:41 AM EDT
[#25]
Check out the Streamlight  TLR-2® G

http://www.streamlight.com/en/products/detail/index/tlr-2-g

Can't be beat for the money. Many useful accesories (tape switches, battery door configurations) so you can set it up on the front end to your liking.

I have seen it as low as $255 shipped on Cyber Monday 2016.

Lowest price I can find at the moment is $276 at Grab A Gun: http://grabagun.com/streamlight-9.html

Personaly I would not pay more than $270 shipped. There are sales all the time, watch Botach, Optics Planet and Slick Guns.

Streamlight part number is 69265

Make sure you are getting the newer 800 lumen and not the older model with the same part number but with lesser lumens!
Link Posted: 3/9/2017 3:19:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yup.. This... its why Night vision is green.Us Humans see green the best. You can see it in daylight, Red... forget it.
I won't be using a laser for precision, that's what the scope is for. I want the laser for close in Night/Day,
View Quote


Doesn't it seem odd that there aren't more RDS that have green reticles then?  I've never even looked at one.   One of Trijicon's RMR's has a green reticle.  And that one cheap red dot there is a long thread in the optics forum.  A few other cheapie's I've seen.  I guess the idea is that if you're in the woods, green will be harder to see????

I don't know.  I do know that I can't seem that laser max red one barely at all on a sunny day.  If it's a bit overcast it's no biggy though.
Link Posted: 3/9/2017 3:52:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Doesn't it seem odd that there aren't more RDS that have green reticles then?
View Quote


I think for optics, red gives a more stark distinction over a wider variety of backgrounds.
Link Posted: 3/9/2017 10:33:47 PM EDT
[#28]
stream light tlr-2g or the stream light tlrhl-2g
Link Posted: 4/1/2017 6:19:26 PM EDT
[#29]
Got out to the range to zero it... zeroed at the recommended 10 yds.

was a clear blue full sunny day..



The taped up holes represent the intial zero I put on it in the basement... Did not take long to get it on.

Very easy to see out to around 10-15 yds. out past 25yds.. nothing.. but I got it for low light close in.

So far, very happy with my choice... and the money I saved, I was able to score a nice M600U to replace the 120 Lumen G2 LED I had on my Carbine.
Link Posted: 4/7/2017 4:15:46 AM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks to Steathly B I now have what I was looking for...for under $200.
http://i.imgur.com/N9x03lG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uZHffM2.jpg

I was never a big Laser fan until they started coming out with green, and while I agree with many that lasers have a limited use on a rifle, They can be excellent in close quarters and limited light for fast and accurate shooting. I wanted to try one, but I did not want to invest $600 plus on a large unit that adds more weight to the front end.

The Lasermax rifle kit was just the ticket.

http://i.imgur.com/gYLqrob.jpg
It takes up a small amount of space with one MLOK rail.

http://i.imgur.com/yNBYDUW.jpg

The mounting system works very well and allows me to place my thumb where I normally do to activate the laser.

http://i.imgur.com/g3eSIWH.jpg

You zero it at 10 yds. It runs on two 3 volt 1/3N Batteries (same as an Aimpoint M2) and its a 5mw laser that you can see on a bright sunny day out to 10-25 yds depending..

Is it battle ready? Don't know, but it's small profile lends it to be less prone to dings and knocks thru normal use. I'm going to play with it for the summer and see how I like it.

Most of us do not need a $600-$1K visible laser. And this is just what I was looking for.
View Quote
The LaserMax UNI is good stuff. I have a red one mounted on the laser section of my AVA Tactical mount on my Benelli M4 and it eats 12-gauge recoil for breakfast and keeps going, holding zero all the way. Good product.
Link Posted: 5/7/2017 7:19:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks to Steathly B I now have what I was looking for...for under $200.

I was never a big Laser fan until they started coming out with green, and while I agree with many that lasers have a limited use on a rifle, They can be excellent in close quarters and limited light for fast and accurate shooting. I wanted to try one, but I did not want to invest $600 plus on a large unit that adds more weight to the front end.

The Lasermax rifle kit was just the ticket.

The mounting system works very well and allows me to place my thumb where I normally do to activate the laser.

You zero it at 10 yds. It runs on two 3 volt 1/3N Batteries (same as an Aimpoint M2) and its a 5mw laser that you can see on a bright sunny day out to 10-25 yds depending..

Is it battle ready? Don't know, but it's small profile lends it to be less prone to dings and knocks thru normal use. I'm going to play with it for the summer and see how I like it.

Most of us do not need a $600-$1K visible laser. And this is just what I was looking for.
View Quote
I have the red lasermax made for my 10/22. It's been great against many armadillos and skunks at night. What's up with the 10 yard zero? The way it's stated is as though it gets zeroed at 10 yards then it's good to go at any distance, which it isn't.
Link Posted: 5/16/2017 3:07:30 PM EDT
[#33]
So I just got done testing 7 different lasers on the market.  Visible only and dual (visible and IR) from several different companies. It's a long story of why and how I did it, but the BLUF is price doesn't directly drive quality in every case, company pedigree isn't always indicative of desirable results, and smaller companies will work for your business.

I tested products in two price ranges $4-800 and $1-300. Surprisingly the clear winners weren't companies I expected, and the customer service was GREAT. Two larger companies Ill leave unnamed at this time, were uninterested and didn't really care much to have a conversation about products and warranties, plus parts breakage (customers fault).  

My likes were

Price Point: $250 mark, Aimshots 8103-II. Ask for Andrew, he is a great dude that'll spend time talking and make recommendations without you feeling like he is rushing you to get to more important issues. They offer this model in the VIS green only or IR only at the time. The product is VERY forward leaning and I was quite skeptical at first. Also, they have a few nice TAC lights in the lower dollar range (TX860) that perform EXCEEDINGLY well, well enough to go on any go to rifle I have (that's another story, and I'm willing to pit this light against most medium duty lights marketed today).

$450-600 mark, Holsun. Depending on if your needing IR capabilities, the price will vary. If you are the 221G is AWESOME!!. If you need a pointer and illuminator, look at the 321. They have a visible laser only model coming out soon that I wasn't able to test.  They also have a few higher dollar model that I was uninterested in testing for my specific requirements at the time. There is a possibility ill get to it in the future.

That's all just my .02 and figured I'd share it. I'm still testing some other stuff currently and if I find something pertinent ill throw it out there. sorry to butt into the conversation....
Link Posted: 5/16/2017 3:12:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Laserlyte K-15?
Link Posted: 5/16/2017 7:50:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So I just got done testing 7 different lasers on the market.  Visible only and dual (visible and IR) from several different companies. It's a long story of why and how I did it, but the BLUF is price doesn't directly drive quality in every case, company pedigree isn't always indicative of desirable results, and smaller companies will work for your business.

I tested products in two price ranges $4-800 and $1-300. Surprisingly the clear winners weren't companies I expected, and the customer service was GREAT. Two larger companies Ill leave unnamed at this time, were uninterested and didn't really care much to have a conversation about products and warranties, plus parts breakage (customers fault).  

My likes were

Price Point: $250 mark, Aimshots 8103-II. Ask for Andrew, he is a great dude that'll spend time talking and make recommendations without you feeling like he is rushing you to get to more important issues. They offer this model in the VIS green only or IR only at the time. The product is VERY forward leaning and I was quite skeptical at first. Also, they have a few nice TAC lights in the lower dollar range (TX860) that perform EXCEEDINGLY well, well enough to go on any go to rifle I have (that's another story, and I'm willing to pit this light against most medium duty lights marketed today).

$450-600 mark, Holsun. Depending on if your needing IR capabilities, the price will vary. If you are the 221G is AWESOME!!. If you need a pointer and illuminator, look at the 321. They have a visible laser only model coming out soon that I wasn't able to test.  They also have a few higher dollar model that I was uninterested in testing for my specific requirements at the time. There is a possibility ill get to it in the future.

That's all just my .02 and figured I'd share it. I'm still testing some other stuff currently and if I find something pertinent ill throw it out there. sorry to butt into the conversation....
View Quote
Where did you find the Holosuns?

I sort of want one for my AK, MP5, etc.


Thanks!
Link Posted: 5/16/2017 7:54:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Where did you find the Holosuns?

I sort of want one for my AK, MP5, etc.


Thanks!
View Quote
I got them from them. I am selling one from the review in the EE. They are damn good for most all applications, at the price point.
Link Posted: 5/16/2017 9:43:40 PM EDT
[#37]
I'm glad you chimed in... I was unaware the Holosun Laser existed...That looks like a pretty viable option for the money.
Link Posted: 5/16/2017 10:46:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm glad you chimed in... I was unaware the Holosun Laser existed...That looks like a pretty viable option for the money.
View Quote
Yeah check them out man, they are breaking into the LAM (laser aiming module) market with some good kit. There are several people that are stocking dealers out there that can get them at this point. There is a local gun store to me that carry their stuff, or can get anything they have quickly. Gentry's gun store Harned KY (270) 580-4442. They are good people and will take care of you.
Link Posted: 6/23/2017 1:12:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Link Posted: 6/23/2017 1:18:44 PM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 6/24/2017 6:42:32 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I got them from them. I am selling one from the review in the EE. They are damn good for most all applications, at the price point.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


Where did you find the Holosuns?

I sort of want one for my AK, MP5, etc.


Thanks!
I got them from them. I am selling one from the review in the EE. They are damn good for most all applications, at the price point.
Thanks! I've got NOD, so having a cheap but capable option for some of my Fun guns (as opposed to hunting or SD/HD/SHTF guns) is nice.
Link Posted: 6/24/2017 7:10:49 AM EDT
[#43]
I have NOD and Surefire V series mounted on HD gun. I need a couple IR/VIS units. I cannot afford the high end units I want. But have NOD and no IR laser seems wrong. So I am looking to outfit a couple rifles with IR and maybe green of IR and IR  illuminator. Any one else found a reliable solution?
Link Posted: 6/24/2017 10:13:48 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have NOD and Surefire V series mounted on HD gun. I need a couple IR/VIS units. I cannot afford the high end units I want. But have NOD and no IR laser seems wrong. So I am looking to outfit a couple rifles with IR and maybe green of IR and IR  illuminator. Any one else found a reliable solution?
View Quote
@recon_mike liked his Holosun.

I would like to know if the IR/Vis,IR Illum version of the Holosun will allow you to fire the IR Illum and IR Laser at the same time...
Link Posted: 6/24/2017 11:09:23 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Visible lasers are a little overrated, but Beamshot is decent for the price.
I've got an original 1000 in a custom offset mount, but you can use a rigid, small flashlight mount for a lower profile.

https://www.beamshot.com/beamshot-greenbeam-1000-p-16693.html?OBNsid=d63c2a3ca4bb8d6816256b1dbd05692b
http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server800/64f33/products/1778/images/5123/gb1000-1__71435.1309979696.300.300.jpg?c=2

The 1000's are ~$170 on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ANZ9ORC?tag=vglnk-c102-20
View Quote
pretty standard for EOF, my personal go-to when I need to order
Link Posted: 6/26/2017 5:51:36 PM EDT
[#46]
It's been mentioned before. But I'll throw in another suggestion for the Streamlight TLR2-G.

I've been extremely happy with Streamlight lights in the past (love me some Surefire too). And so far, I'm happy with the TLR2-G. I mainly got it to play around with the laser some, but also for the very, very good light. It rides on my HD AUG and so far has been rock solid.
Link Posted: 7/9/2017 2:14:41 AM EDT
[#47]
How about a green beam above 5mw so you can actually see the dot in full sunlight?
Link Posted: 7/11/2017 11:17:46 PM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 7/28/2017 2:52:10 PM EDT
[#49]
Best bet is to buy or make a heatsink to accept a 12mm module and fit it into a flashlight body that you have a mount for.

One I've done like this is the UltraFire 501B the only part original 501b was the host and head. Put a 12mm 520nm green diode module into a heatsink and add your battery; ready to rip. You can also get pressure switch for those hosts.

I am into lasers and there is always a way to modify the flashlights than can mount into a laser.

Here is my source for diodes: https://sites.google.com/site/dtrlpf/home/diodes
520nm is green 620nm+ is orange and red.

Don't put a high power blue on your weapon or you'll blind anyone it hits. Anything over 10mW I wear goggles.. 5mw is the threshold for eye pain


I can make you a laser unit for much less than what you have listed here and I have plenty of positive feedback on eBay to show i know how.
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 2:15:40 AM EDT
[#50]
Nice photo, good post, thanks!
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