Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Posted: 2/15/2005 9:04:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2005 6:31:00 AM EDT by Bandit-ExcaliburArms]
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 9:25:05 AM EDT
If it can be proven that it works as good as you say it does, and I don't have a shiny silver gun when its finished, I'd DEFINETLY be interested.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 9:32:07 AM EDT
that would be cool
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 9:35:29 AM EDT
Absolutely interested, as long as the cost isn't prohibitive, and that beautiful black would remain so.

HH
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 9:37:21 AM EDT
I have never used grease on an M16 in my entire life. Grease is NOT the word. CLP is.


That in mind, i tihnk it's an interesting idea. Price would be the biggest factor.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 9:45:02 AM EDT
I'd really like to see the pricing for that stuff. It sounds very interesting.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 9:54:56 AM EDT
I'm cautiously interested, but this just screams early 1960's "the M-16 never needs cleaning!"
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 9:56:13 AM EDT
Interested depending on costs.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 10:13:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
I have never used grease on an M16 in my entire life



You should try it. It's excellent on the cam pin and on the Bolt carrier bearing rails. CLP is useless on the Cam pin and oozes everywhere in the upper which attracts dust.

I still use CLP, but not where it doesn't work.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 10:40:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By NAM:
I have never used grease on an M16 in my entire life



You should try it. It's excellent on the cam pin and on the Bolt carrier bearing rails. CLP is useless on the Cam pin and oozes everywhere in the upper which attracts dust.

I still use CLP, but not where it doesn't work.


This is exactly where I use grease as well. Mark, what kind of grease do you prefer?
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 10:52:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
This is exactly where I use grease as well. Mark, what kind of grease do you prefer?



I just use High Temp automotive brake grease. It doesn't vaporize off of the Cam pin like CLP.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 11:01:49 AM EDT
I'm not a big fan of nickel plating on critical parts. I'd give it a shot though.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 11:11:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2005 11:32:37 AM EDT by Forest]

Originally Posted By markm:
It's excellent on the cam pin and on the Bolt carrier bearing rails. CLP is useless on the Cam pin and oozes everywhere in the upper which attracts dust.



And grease doesn't attract dust?

And when it does, it captures it thus making a nice abrasive paste.

Thanks but no thanks, grease was originally tried with the M16 in the mid 60s, it was found lacking. CLP works just find thank you.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 11:20:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2005 11:22:01 AM EDT by NYPatriot]
Sounds a lot like Robar's NP3.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 11:37:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:
And grease doesn't attract dust?

And when it does, it captures it thus making a nice abrasive paste.

Thanks but no thanks, grease was originally tried with the M16 in the mid 60s, it was found lacking. CLP works just find thank you.



Grease won't run all over the inside of the upper. It stays just where you put it. any lube will attract grit. but limiting it to the applied area helps out a lot. So rather that a whole upper full of gunk, you just get limited caking.

CLP does not work on the cam pin. It will lube the carrier rails, but it won't stay where you want it. Grease works just fine in those two areas thank you.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 11:53:08 AM EDT
What? Im supposed to grease this puppy?

[wanders off to search his rifle for zerk fittings]
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 12:18:44 PM EDT
No lubricant "attracts dust", or at least none that I've ever heard of. Dust and dirt that comes in contact with lubricants may stick, but they don't, and can't, "attract" it. Sorry for nitpicking, but that's one of my pet peeves and I've run across people who take it literally, thinking that dust from all over the place will suddenly suck into their gun like into a vacuum if they put oil or grease on it.

The coating sounds interesting and if it's not cost prohibitive I may consdier it on my next build, which I just assembled the lower for a few nights ago.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 12:23:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
CLP does not work on the cam pin. It will lube the carrier rails, but it won't stay where you want it.



Sure it does - ALL if it might not but some does, add in that even if it dries it leaves a lubricating film behind.

Grease was given up after a couple of years with the M16. CLP is still going strong 20+ years after it's introduction - that tells me alot.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 12:40:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By NAM:
I have never used grease on an M16 in my entire life



You should try it. It's excellent on the cam pin and on the Bolt carrier bearing rails. CLP is useless on the Cam pin and oozes everywhere in the upper which attracts dust.

I still use CLP, but not where it doesn't work.



It doesnt work huh? And you base this on..... what?
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 12:42:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bandit-ExcaliburArms:
They have tested M4's to 30,000 rounds with no lubrication.



This sounds really cool. I'd be interested in seeing how much cost this adds to the basic rifle.

This and a LW gas piston upper.... might keep this weapon system alive for many decades to come!
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 1:02:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
Sounds a lot like Robar's NP3.


Yeah, Lazzeroni is coating bullets with it to squeeze more velocity out of a Barnes Bullet. Check it out here: LazerHead Premium Hunting Bullets from Lazzeroni

I wonder if you could coat an entire firearm with it? Incidentally, I had a Bushmaster completely coated with Teflon except for the bore. I don't use any lube either. Cleaning is a snap with a dry brush.

Link Posted: 2/15/2005 1:07:54 PM EDT
sounds like a good idea. As with others cost would be a big factor to have this on a personal firearm.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 1:11:25 PM EDT
Kewl. I saw this at a tradeshow a few years ago, I was wondering where it was at
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 1:14:55 PM EDT
I'm interested.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 1:17:06 PM EDT
Grease in an AR15?, What happens if it gets cold outside?

& Yes if it does not cost & Arm & a Leg I am interested in the new coating!
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 1:22:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2005 1:24:36 PM EDT by TriggerFish]
ROBAR NP-3 finish:


Very cool... but very silver!
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 2:26:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By NAM:
I have never used grease on an M16 in my entire life



You should try it. It's excellent on the cam pin and on the Bolt carrier bearing rails. CLP is useless on the Cam pin and oozes everywhere in the upper which attracts dust.

I still use CLP, but not where it doesn't work.



YEP I use Militec synthetic grease. Very slick, and will handle high temps. Most of all grease has the most wear protection. I use Powder Blast or carb cleaner to kick ass on the gunk. then CLP to final clean. Then grease carrier contact points. 100% reliable
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 3:04:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bandit-ExcaliburArms:
I hope to be able to offer the plating process and pre-plated parts and assemblies to the AR15.com community. I do not have a pricing structure or time frame to offer as yet, but would like to guage the interest level in the community.

What do you say?



Interested
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 3:52:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2005 7:21:54 PM EDT by Bandit-ExcaliburArms]
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 4:08:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2005 4:09:13 PM EDT by Buey]

Link Posted: 2/15/2005 4:24:12 PM EDT
Sounds cool. but I would prefer mine in basic black, not the "fudge" color you tested.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 4:39:28 PM EDT
I wish you luck in this venture. My unit sent several barrels, triggers, and other components to try this Ultra Chem process. It failed miserably, ruining most of the (very expensive) parts.

In September 2004 at the Infantry Conference at Fort Benning we invited Ultra Chem to conduct a live-fire demo at Parks Range. They brought an M16A1 to demonstrate the "Greaseless" concept. It failed to fire more than three consecutive rounds before stopping. There was one slam-fire. We mutually agreed to end the demo.

Other manufacturers present were Remington Military Products (Messers. Ed Shoppman and Mike Haugen) and Surefire (Mr. Barry Dueck).
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 7:18:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2005 6:32:53 AM EDT by Bandit-ExcaliburArms]
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 7:46:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sinister:
I wish you luck in this venture. My unit sent several barrels, triggers, and other components to try this Ultra Chem process. It failed miserably, ruining most of the (very expensive) parts.

In September 2004 at the Infantry Conference at Fort Benning we invited Ultra Chem to conduct a live-fire demo at Parks Range. They brought an M16A1 to demonstrate the "Greaseless" concept. It failed to fire more than three consecutive rounds before stopping. There was one slam-fire. We mutually agreed to end the demo.

Other manufacturers present were Remington Military Products (Messers. Ed Shoppman and Mike Haugen) and Surefire (Mr. Barry Dueck).



Sinister, if possible could you be a little more specific? How did the parts fail?

Thanks.

Link Posted: 2/15/2005 8:03:44 PM EDT
BTW Bandit, couldn't you have posted this info a few days ago? I just sent a lower receiver off to be refinished in Cerakote, thinking it was the latest & greatest firearms finish, and now you have to go & pull this on me!!!
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 8:07:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 8:09:52 PM EDT
I wonder if they fixed the problems encountered at Ft Benning.

If so, sounds interesting.
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 8:09:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 8:11:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2005 8:16:53 PM EDT by Bandit-ExcaliburArms]
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 8:12:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 8:12:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2005 8:18:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2005 8:35:23 PM EDT by Bandit-ExcaliburArms]
Link Posted: 2/16/2005 8:12:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2005 7:18:56 PM EDT by Bandit-ExcaliburArms]
Link Posted: 2/16/2005 8:21:45 AM EDT
Tag.
Link Posted: 2/16/2005 9:18:21 AM EDT
Tagged for updates.
Link Posted: 2/16/2005 10:22:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2005 10:29:27 AM EDT by taptap]
Link to Presentation on UCT treated Berettas from NDIA Small Arms Systems Symposium


www.dtic.mil/ndia/2004arms/session9/daniti.ppt
Link Posted: 2/16/2005 10:39:44 AM EDT
I'm interested in the new coatings. I already have an Olympic Arms Maxhard rifle I'm building, and since I started it, I have heard of Tantelum, NP-3 and now UTC. I think chrome is on the way out, because it's so "last century"....
Link Posted: 2/16/2005 11:36:22 AM EDT
Tagged
Link Posted: 2/16/2005 1:15:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By taptap:
Link to Presentation on UCT treated Berettas from NDIA Small Arms Systems Symposium


www.dtic.mil/ndia/2004arms/session9/daniti.ppt



Interesting, let's skip to the end:


Conclusions
* Total cost ~ $12K = large amount of good information
* No noticeable mechanical wear
* No apparent gun degradation after 15,000 rnds
* Easy to remove some residue
* Hard to Clean Carbon
* A thin layer of CLP on the gun could aid in carbon removal

**Not a Chrome Replacement in Barrels**

Link Posted: 2/16/2005 1:27:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2005 7:19:36 PM EDT by Bandit-ExcaliburArms]
Link Posted: 2/16/2005 3:26:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bandit-ExcaliburArms:
Latest update:

I inspected the M16A1 mentioned above, this afternoon. The gas port was restricted, probably due to the plating process, and the extractor spring was missing it's buffer. Opening the gas port to the proper size, and installing a new Colt extractor spring with the black buffer, cured it's ills. It runs now!

I was also given back the M4 I previously assembled, and will be testing it further with 5000 rounds of the dirtiest ammo available, Wolf lacquer coated steel case. This should be interesting. UCT has already shot 1100 plus rounds of Wolf through it.




John, now that you have it back....how about some pics
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Top Top