Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 5/6/2004 12:29:25 PM EST
Can anyone tell me what companies are currently under Govt contract to build m16s/ARs? Documentation?
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 12:32:21 PM EST
FN and Colt are under contract for M16's and RRA is under contract for the DEA
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 1:49:23 PM EST
Colt, RRA and SIG, got approval to sell to the DEA for a specific amount of money. Colt are the ones that got a purchase oder and are delivering.
Jack
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 1:49:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 1:51:49 PM EST by jnewt]
From what I hear, just what I hear, Colt provides M4s, FN provideds M-16s and RRA provides ARs to the DEA and FBI.

Just a guess, Colt, RRA and Sig got DEA/FBI contracts but just guessing Colt provides the 9mm SMG, Sig pistols and RRA Ars
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:15:06 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:40:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 4:48:04 PM EST by jnewt]

The whole RRA thing is totally off-base. DEA is not the military, and they don't do military-type acceptance testing. Neither does FBI or any other agency, so I don't see how they are of any relevance to this thread.


He asked about Gov't contracts not just military... Here is the question again
"Can anyone tell me what companies are currently under Govt contract to build m16s/ARs? Documentation?"


And, as Jack has pointed out, although RRA was accepted to be a potential supplier of rifles to the DEA, and have *implied* that they are in fact supplying the DEA, the DEA has only placed orders with Colt at this time. Aside from whatever T&E guns DEA bought from RRA, they have not bought any RRA rifles.



Does jack have proof of that? Do you? I only know what I read and according to SWAT magazine RRA has a contract with the DEA and FBI to supply 3400-3500 (not 100% sure of the exact number but it was 3400 someodd) rifles per year for the next 5 years. The artical also said the DEA would be recieving the first rifles. I am going to lean more toward beleiving what SWAT printed than the rumors here on this site. Since RRA sent SWAT a rifle to test, provided them with all the info on the Gov't testing that was done and details of the contract, I'm going with that story.

It has been said that Colt and Sig also got awarded contracts. Does Sig make ARs? The DEA uses the Colt 9mm SMG correct? They also use Sig pistols correct? Do ya think maybe Colt has a contract for the SMG, Sig for thier pistols and RRA for ARs?


Troy if you or Jack have some proof post it for us
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 4:03:42 AM EST
I have been reading a bunch of stuff about LMT building rifles or at least parts for the military. Anyone have any input on that?
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 4:24:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 4:43:09 AM EST
If you don't mind me asking, "If Colt has supplied very few, then who are the other guys the Gov is buying from?"
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:02:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:10:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By jnewt:
It has been said that Colt and Sig also got awarded contracts. Does Sig make ARs? The DEA uses the Colt 9mm SMG correct? They also use Sig pistols correct? Do ya think maybe Colt has a contract for the SMG, Sig for thier pistols and RRA for ARs?


No because the Contract is for .223 Carbines - not ARs not Pistols, not 9mm SMGs.

Check it out:
Govt Wide Contracts



Troy if you or Jack have some proof post it for us


If they don't then I just posted the proof from the Department of Justice's website dealing with contracts.

(My thanks to Scott J who found this link orginally).
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:25:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By 3rdtk:
Colt, RRA and SIG, got approval to sell to the DEA for a specific amount of money. Colt are the ones that got a purchase oder and are delivering.
Jack



That is a (NEGATIVE) (Ghost Rider)! I have seen the purchase orders from the Govt. They have actually bought VERY FEW Colt's....


C4



Oh, since you say you "SAW" the COLT purchase oder, what was the QTY????????????
Jack
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:26:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:33:05 AM EST

I only know what I read and according to SWAT magazine RRA has a contract with the DEA and FBI to supply 3400-3500 (not 100% sure of the exact number but it was 3400 someodd) rifles per year for the next 5 years. The artical also said the DEA would be recieving the first rifles. I am going to lean more toward beleiving what SWAT printed than the rumors here on this site. Since RRA sent SWAT a rifle to test, provided them with all the info on the Gov't testing that was done and details of the contract, I'm going with that story.



SWAT magazine was right in reporting that RRA was awarded a contract but you need to keep in mind, in case you don't deal with the gubberment, that a contract does not equate to an automatic purchase order. I could take months for the funding to come through for the RRA rifles or there could be other reasons. That does not mean the DEA will not receive RRA it just means they haven't yet (at least not in any great quantities). Just keep in mind that a contract is only the first step in the process. Also, being on the contract list doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. Two of my buddies are on various contract list but they have no business with the gov't at this time. They just like to stay on the list because it's hard to get back on once you're off.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:35:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By jnewt:
It has been said that Colt and Sig also got awarded contracts. Does Sig make ARs? The DEA uses the Colt 9mm SMG correct? They also use Sig pistols correct? Do ya think maybe Colt has a contract for the SMG, Sig for thier pistols and RRA for ARs?


No because the Contract is for .223 Carbines - not ARs not Pistols, not 9mm SMGs.

Check it out:
Govt Wide Contracts



Troy if you or Jack have some proof post it for us


If they don't then I just posted the proof from the Department of Justice's website dealing with contracts.

(My thanks to Scott J who found this link orginally).



I'm sorry but what does that site you posted prove? The only thing it proves to me is that there are 4 companies that have active contracts to supply .223 carbines - Sig Arms, Colt, RRA and Sti-Co Industries (BTW - who the heck is Sti-Co?) Judging by the contract numbers and expiration date, they were probably all awarded at the same time.

Troy and Jack stated that while other companies may have a contract, the government has only been buying Colt. It is that statement that we would like them to prove.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:41:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By M4arc:




AGAIN! You say Colt didn't sell many to the DEA, and you saw the Purchase order.
Well have many was a few????????
Jack
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:45:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:46:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By 3rdtk:

Originally Posted By M4arc:




AGAIN! You say Colt didn't sell many to the DEA, and you saw the Purchase order.
Well have many was a few????????
Jack



I didn't say that.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:50:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By airgunner:
[I'm sorry but what does that site you posted prove? The only thing it proves to me is that there are 4 companies that have active contracts to supply .223 carbines - Sig Arms, Colt, RRA and Sti-Co Industries (BTW - who the heck is Sti-Co?) Judging by the contract numbers and expiration date, they were probably all awarded at the same time.



It only proves that those companys are on the contract list
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:00:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By airgunner:
Check it out:
Govt Wide Contracts

[I'm sorry but what does that site you posted prove? The only thing it proves to me is that there are 4 companies that have active contracts to supply .223 carbines - Sig Arms, Colt, RRA and Sti-Co Industries (BTW - who the heck is Sti-Co?)



It proves that there were 3 companies that Jack Mentioned had .223 carbine contracts with the DEA. Not for Pistols (sig) nor for SMGs (Colt) as a previous posted had theorized.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:09:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By 3rdtk:
Colt, RRA and SIG, got approval to sell to the DEA for a specific amount of money. Colt are the ones that got a purchase oder and are delivering.
Jack



That is a NEGATIVE Ghost Rider! I have seen the purchase orders from the Govt. They have actually bought VERY FEW Colt's....


C4



There is your your post. YOU SAY and I quote from your words above-" I HAVE SEEN THE PURCHASE ORDERS FROM THE GOVT. THEY ACTUALLY BOUGHT VERY FEW COLT'S"

Now, why do you say you didn't say it, and why don't you answer the quetion of how many was a few?
Jack
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:17:04 AM EST
In response to the GOVT WIDE CONTRACTS link, has anyone called this woman listed as a contact on the list??????

Connie Jones
(202)307-7804


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:20:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 7:07:53 AM EST

DEA DEA-03-C-0030 Multi-Bureau Sigarms, Inc. 06/20/08 ,223 Carbines

DEA DEA-03-C-0031 Multi-Bureau Colt Defense 06/20/08 .223 Carbines

DEA DEA-03-C-0032 Multi-Bureau Rock River Arms 06/20/08 .223 Carbines

DEA DEA-03-C-0032 Multi-Bureau Sti-Co Industries 06/20/08 .223 Carbines




Thats plenty good for me. No one knows how many of each the DEA is buying so lets just stop with the back and forth BS.


Can anyone tell me what companies are currently under Govt contract to build m16s/ARs? Documentation?



There ya go bro. Thanks to Forest and Scott J
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 7:18:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:
It proves that there were 3 companies that Jack Mentioned had .223 carbine contracts with the DEA. Not for Pistols (sig) nor for SMGs (Colt) as a previous posted had theorized.



Incorrect. It proves there are 4 companies with the same contract to provide .223 carbines. It does not give any indication as to how many units have actually been ordered or delivered from any of the four which seems to be the focus of the discussion right now.


Originally Posted By 3rdtk:
...Colt are the ones that got a purchase oder and are delivering.

...AGAIN! You say Colt didn't sell many to the DEA, and you saw the Purchase order.
Well have many was a few????????



Since you seem so concerned with calling C4 out, How about backing up your own statement with some documented facts?
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 9:53:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2004 10:30:44 AM EST by Forest]

Originally Posted By airgunner:
Incorrect. It proves there are 4 companies with the same contract to provide .223 carbines.



Actually that 4th company STI is an antenna manufacture - I don't know why they are included in the .223 contract.

Looks like someone entered the contract number wrong for STI so it showed up as a .223 instead of an antenna contract.

See: STI Contract Award
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 10:24:28 AM EST
Whatever SWAT magazine puts into print has to be the truth, the magazine guys would never mislead us and are certainly not pandering to their advertisers.

Government contract does not equal Military contract.


Link Posted: 5/7/2004 3:03:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2004 3:06:45 PM EST by Combat_Diver]
As far as the Sig Arms contract goes that's not for a AR. Remember Sig makes other 5.56 carbines under model numbers starting with 55_.

All the current M4s that I've ever seen (since 95) have been by Colt. Same with the M16A2 (some FNs, but very few). Haven't handled any M16A3s or A4s.

SPRs are made on M16A1 recievers previously purchased under those old contracts.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 4:39:53 PM EST
Frankly, who gives a shit what the DEA buys?
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 4:58:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
Jack, I was referring to your comment about that RRA was not delivering AR's to the DEA contract. So if you read my comment and place it against your statement that Colt is the only one filling orders then it will make sense to you. To make things as clear as can be, I have actually SEEN the purchase orders to RRA for AR's. I have been told from a very reliable source that Colt is NOT getting any orders. Since RRA is sending the DEA large numbers of AR's that would lead me to believe that what I was told about Colt not getting any purchase orders to be correct!

[/b



OK, I can help you understand what you really saw. You saw a (BOA) Basic order agreement!
They are (NOT) a purchase order! Thre companies got BOA for .233 weapons for the DEA program. COLT, RRA and SIG.
Colt's BOA was for (in rd. numbers) for $100,mil. RRA, was $83,mil. and SIG was for $125,Mil.
Colt then got a PURCHASE ORDER, the others didn't, at least not yet, if ever. The Gov't left their options open, and the gov't always do these built in protections, and the false claims from RRA do not help them in the long run. Putting the name of a gov't agency without gov't approval is not only suspect as to being legal, but also false advertisment to say the least!
Jack
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:08:42 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 9:19:03 PM EST
Grant,
While you are correct about both the purchase orders and actual numbers delivered, you will never win a verbal argument with "Jack", as he has never been wrong (just ask him, he's happy to tell you) about anything on these boards. I just wonder what tune he would be singing if the RRA rifle, as delivered in very significant quantities to the DEA, had an ARMS 40 instead of the GG&G BUIS. And maybe an ARMS SIR rather than the Surefire M73 quadrail. And maybe an Aimpoint in an ARMS mount rather than an EOTech with the factory mount....I wonder...
Sluggo
PS...the thread was originally about government contracts, not just military...so DEA, FBI, even Parks Service all apply.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:40:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By 3rdtk:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
Jack, I was referring to your comment about that RRA was not delivering AR's to the DEA contract. So if you read my comment and place it against your statement that Colt is the only one filling orders then it will make sense to you. To make things as clear as can be, I have actually SEEN the purchase orders to RRA for AR's. I have been told from a very reliable source that Colt is NOT getting any orders. Since RRA is sending the DEA large numbers of AR's that would lead me to believe that what I was told about Colt not getting any purchase orders to be correct!

[/b



OK, I can help you understand what you really saw. You saw a (BOA) Basic order agreement!
They are (NOT) a purchase order! Thre companies got BOA for .233 weapons for the DEA program. COLT, RRA and SIG.
Colt's BOA was for (in rd. numbers) for $100,mil. RRA, was $83,mil. and SIG was for $125,Mil.
Colt then got a PURCHASE ORDER, the others didn't, at least not yet, if ever. The Gov't left their options open, and the gov't always do these built in protections, and the false claims from RRA do not help them in the long run. Putting the name of a gov't agency without gov't approval is not only suspect as to being legal, but also false advertisment to say the least!
Jack



So Jack, you ever going to stop focusing on Grant and back up your own statements? Now you are accusing RRA of, at minimum, false advertising so do you have any proof?

Just so we are clear I could care less who the military or federal government is buying their rifles from as it means next to nothing We all know that their selection process isn't only about who produces the best product. I just think if you are going to act like some kind of expert on the subject and accuse other people of being wrong or misled then you need to back up your statements with some verifiable proof.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 7:15:06 AM EST
Top Top