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Posted: 8/4/2011 4:49:30 PM EDT
Hi. Im looking for a good caliber to get or build an upper in that can do large game such as bears, elk, large boar, etc... I wuld prefer that it could do pretty long distances, although I realize that a lot of AR calibers have problems past 300 yards on live animals. So what is the answer? oh and please have it be something that is ar 15 not ar 10. thanks!
Link Posted: 8/4/2011 5:09:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Your pushing it with the distance and the size of the game you listed.

Link Posted: 8/4/2011 5:22:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Hmmm,that's a tall order...the 6.5 Grendel/LBC and the 6.8 SPC Spec II are about the only ones that have the juice to go beyond
300 yards w/ good power and accuracy (high B/C pills). The only other option would be a WSSM wildcat like a .25,.264/6.5mm,7mm,.
30/7.62mm flavors.
Link Posted: 8/4/2011 5:29:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Hmmm,that's a tall order...the 6.5 Grendel/LBC and the 6.8 SPC Spec II are about the only ones that have the juice to go beyond
300 yards w/ good power and accuracy (high B/C pills). The only other option would a WSSM wildcat like a .25,.264/6.5mm,7mm,.
30/7.62mm flavors.


I always forget about the  WSSM. Probably my vote, in 243 or .25.
Link Posted: 8/4/2011 5:50:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
The only other option would a WSSM wildcat like a .25,.264/6.5mm,7mm,.
30/7.62mm flavors.


These are the best options given your criteria.
Olynpic Arms is one source for these caliblers.  Here is the linke

Olympic Arms
Link Posted: 8/4/2011 7:24:41 PM EDT
[#5]
yeah its ok if it cant do long distances but it would be nice if it did. Do the 6.5 grendel, 6.8, and the other wildcat rounds have enough stopping power to drop elk and such at long ranges? And again as I was saying, they dont absolutely have to go out to those yardages, it would just be nice.

I heard about this new round called 300 blackout. Do you guys think it would meet any of the criteria ive stated?
Link Posted: 8/4/2011 7:28:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Definitely not the blackout for your criteria.
Link Posted: 8/5/2011 3:51:52 AM EDT
[#7]
I forgot to mention the 30 Remington AR.  I saw a rifle in this caliber  at one of the big box sporting good store.

You can check it out here


30 REM AR
Link Posted: 8/5/2011 1:02:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Yeh, go with a WSSM caliber or go with a .308 platform AR10.  I really think those are your only options.  If you want to drop an elk at 300yds, even though it has been done before, you should stay away from the 6.5G/264LBC-AR.  Try a .308 or a 6.5 Creedmor maybe in the AR10 platform.
Link Posted: 8/5/2011 1:24:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
yeah its ok if it cant do long distances but it would be nice if it did. Do the 6.5 grendel, 6.8, and the other wildcat rounds have enough stopping power to drop elk and such at long ranges? And again as I was saying, they dont absolutely have to go out to those yardages, it would just be nice.

I heard about this new round called 300 blackout. Do you guys think it would meet any of the criteria ive stated?


There's a well-known and prominent sponsor of this very site who killed an elk at 400 yards with the 6.5 Grendel.

Even with that said, however, I would regard the cartridge (and the 6.8 SPC) as completely unsuitable for this purpose, and I suspect that many outfitters in elk country would have some choice words with anyone looking to hunt elk with either cartridge. Assuming that we're talking Rocky Mountain elk here, these are tough, wary animals that can cover a lot of country very quickly. I've had outfitters tell me that they typically consider .25-06 or .270 as minimum for elk, and they much prefer something in the .30-06 to 7mm Rem Mag class. Conservatively, any .30-06 loading is going to have 1000 more ft. lbs. at the muzzle than anything in the 6.5/6.8 class.

Don't get me wrong here. I'll be deer hunting with my AR-15 in a couple of weeks, chambered in a .223-based wildcat. Elk however are an entirely different proposition - especially at any distance beyond 100 yards - and in my view outside of the AR-15 platform's capabilities, unless you're going with the WSSM cartridges.

Link Posted: 8/5/2011 2:28:09 PM EDT
[#10]
What counts the most is: good shot placement, deep penatration,  good weight retention and good moderate expansion...25 caliber and up w/ moderately high velocity on Impact etc.

I seen people w/ bows drop Elk size game @ 50 yards...Just saying.

Link Posted: 8/6/2011 4:43:19 AM EDT
[#11]
Although killing an Elk and Bear with an AR15 is certainly doable its too limited mostly in bullet length and energy.
If you use 200 yard limit then I would say a 458 socom is great for all three.

I hog hunt and personally I want something that will drop one DRT.

Maybe a 300 OSS would do, but for Elk you really want a heavy partition bullet.

If strictly for Elk and it had to be an AR of some type, I would say an AR10 in 7mm WSM or 300 WSM
If you really want to hump an AR10 on an elk hunt.

The issue is hunting elk you may have a very long shot like 400-500 yards, so you want a cartridge with some balls.

All that said, all 3 of your game animals have been taken with a 6.8 SPC. I think the elk was a 5X at 350 yards.
Teacher killed a black bear with 2 quick shots. 110 gr tsx.

I think you really need 2 rifles.
One elk gun that is a magnum, and a bear hog gun that is a mid/large bore heavy hitter
That said a 338-06 or 338 WM would be great for all 3, just not an AR10.

I have used all sort of calibers on hogs, and the best hog devastator vs recoil so far has been a 338.
Any of them will do.

338 fed, 338-06, 338 WM etc.
Just switched over to 10mm auto for handgun loaded with heavy bullets.

I am surprised nobody had legitimized a 338 WSSM yet.
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 7:33:10 PM EDT
[#12]
AR-10 in 308WIN or 338FED.

There's majiks, sometimes, when it comes to frontal area of a bullet.

Either way, that's sum heavy humping.

I don't have chrono data on the Barnes 300gr TTSX but
the 458SOCOM might give you 1000lbs of oomph at 400yrds.
You'll easily have more than that at the 300yd line.

 

Link Posted: 8/7/2011 12:52:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Is this why you don't want an AR 10/LR 308?


New LR308 with DMS-1 and 5 rds.


Only about 4.5 oz. more than my ruger 300wm
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 7:34:14 PM EDT
[#14]
I think this is a case of not being able to have your cake and eat it too.  If you are wanting to use it for game animals up to bear, then I would think one of the heavy hitters (50 Beowulf or 458 SOCOM) would be preferable.  Of course your range is limited to at the very most 300yd, but more practically 200yd.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 7:40:42 PM EDT
[#15]
300 SAUM from DPMS will do what you want. You could get a custom from Accuracy Systems as well.  Like this. http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x339/long450/AccuracySystem300SAUM.jpg
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 6:24:57 AM EDT
[#16]
If you don't need 300 yards , look at  the 450 Bushmaster..........I sight mine in about 2"-3" high at 100yds...... good for 2"-3" low at 200 yds.
I reload my own and use bullets   200gr  - 400gr.
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 6:47:05 AM EDT
[#17]
Can not be done, you need 2 guns.  5.56-6.8 is good for deer and hogs, 338 for elk and ESPECIALLY BEAR (or a 450-458 with in 150 yards).

Question...do you regularly take game at 200-400 yards???  That is not an easy task for most.  Gut shoot an elk or bear at 400 yards he is gone at best, you are bear scat in the morning at worst.

P
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 1:16:43 PM EDT
[#18]
Please dont be cruel to the animal just because you want to hunt with a sexy black rifle.
I love the black rifles but would never consider hunting big game with one.
Get a bolt action in the proper caliber.
REAL hunters use single shots.
.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 7:27:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Please dont be cruel to the animal just because you want to hunt with a sexy black rifle.
I love the black rifles but would never consider hunting big game with one.
Get a bolt action in the proper caliber.
REAL hunters use single shots.
.


Show us a single shot that can deliver a follow-up shot before the deer/elk is long gone from view. I don't know of any. (don't say it'll never happen to you either, every time we pull the trigger on an animal there's a chance of a bad shot, bad round, an unseen twig that deflects the bullet, lack of penetration/expansion/etc...)

I don't do any big game hunting with a semi-auto, but certainly wouldn't condemn others for doing so if that was their choice.

Hopefully your post doesn't reflect your attitudes towards our guns and community.

Now to the OP, your requirement that the cartridge be available in an AR-15 really narrows the possibilities for BIG game like elk, bear, large boars. If big angry bears are a real possibility, .458 SOCOM or .50 Beowulf would be my first choices in an AR-15 platform. Ballistics like a .45-70 in a mag-fed auto-loader.
If you're thinking more like elk/deer/normal size hogs up to ~300 yards, the 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC II, and maybe 25 WSSM would be hard to beat in the platform they were designed around.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 8:15:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Thanks to everyone who replied. I think Im going to either get a 300 OSSM, 450 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM, or 50 beowulf, and Im going to start doing some research on 300 SAUM.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 10:33:32 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Please dont be cruel to the animal just because you want to hunt with a sexy black rifle.
I love the black rifles but would never consider hunting big game with one.
Get a bolt action in the proper caliber.
REAL hunters use single shots.
.

Why don't you use a spear if you wanna be a REAL HUNTER.  jackass
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 5:37:46 AM EDT
[#22]
I think people get too bent out of shape over this.    You don't need a magnum bolt rifle.  I have shot elk DRT  with a 270 and all the bullets exited... I am sure a 6.8 would be fine.  My freaking 243 has killed the fuck out of everything I have shot with it, gave me a freaking 8" exit wound on an antelope.  Shot a deer with an AR10, dead before it hit the ground in its tracks.  Hit the vitals with anything bigger than 223 using a hunting bullet and the critter will be dead as george washington.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 9:54:24 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
I think people get too bent out of shape over this.    You don't need a magnum bolt rifle.  I have shot elk DRT  with a 270 and all the bullets exited... I am sure a 6.8 would be fine.  My freaking 243 has killed the fuck out of everything I have shot with it, gave me a freaking 8" exit wound on an antelope.  Shot a deer with an AR10, dead before it hit the ground in its tracks.  Hit the vitals with anything bigger than 223 using a hunting bullet and the critter will be dead as george washington.


The problem is not so much the caliber but the range.  Sure a 6.8 is great on an Elk.   But at 400 yards things get risky?
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 1:09:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Please dont be cruel to the animal just because you want to hunt with a sexy black rifle.
I love the black rifles but would never consider hunting big game with one.
Get a bolt action in the proper caliber.
REAL hunters use single shots.
.

Why don't you use a spear if you wanna be a REAL HUNTER.  jackass


&
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 4:00:42 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Thanks to everyone who replied. I think Im going to either get a 300 OSSM, 450 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM, or 50 beowulf, and Im going to start doing some research on 300 SAUM.


300 OSSM and the 300 SAUM are both good.
300 OSSM the weaker of the two.
The issue with the 300 OSSM is bullet length.
For Elk you really want a 180 gr bullet which is long so you will lose a lot of case space.
The 300 OSSM works best with shorter bullets around 125 gr.  

As far as the 3 big bores, I would lean towards a 458 socom.
Better yet a 458 WSSM wildcat but you would have to hand load.
A 485 WSSM loaded right would have about 40-50# of recoil ! but you can load it down.
The 458 uses rifle bullets and there are tons of 458 bullets to choose from.
The 50 beo and 450 BM both use pistol bullets.
That said ammo is easier to find for the 450BM.

I think the most versatile of the bunch would be a 300 SAUM AR10.

You could always get a Stevens 7mmRM or 300WM bolt action rifle.
You can get a Stevens for about $300 and If you ever go after AK growlers just swap barrels to a 375 Ruger and load it with 270 gr TSX bullets
or swap barrels to a 270 win, or whatever. It takes about 10 minutes to swap a Savage/Stevens barrel.
I have had various setups from 223 up to 458 WM on savage actions.

Of course you could also go the other way around and set up a 6.8 SPC for normal size game and use a 338WM bolt action for the big stuff.
I think a 6.8 SPC is the most versatile for normal size game and even large Hogs and can be built at 6# with scope with very little recoil.

Link Posted: 8/13/2011 4:26:11 PM EDT
[#26]
hog 6.8
bear .308
elk 300 win mag  Remington 700
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 8:13:13 PM EDT
[#27]
ER um
Generally....
Eastern Deer and Small Pigs up to 300# or so at less than 300 yds, 6.8 SPC
Elk - 300 WM 180 gr or 338 WM
Black Bear - 280, 30-06 min, 300WM, 338 anything.
Brown bear -  300 WM min, or 338-06 or 338 WM, better yet 375 ruger or 410 ruger etc.
Huge Hogs - 400# plus, something that will drop them PDQ especially if you are on the ground.
My best DRT rounds to date for big hogs were a 338-284 (about like a 338-06) and a 375 ruger.
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