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Posted: 5/11/2004 6:27:54 AM EST
How important is a chrome chamber and barrel?

A manufacturer I'm interesed in purchasing from said they have no chrome barrels in stock and may not for several weeks/months.

Should this be a show-stopper?
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:41:06 AM EST
Would not stop me.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:43:33 AM EST
unless u getting Class 3, chrome lining is unnecessary but nice to have.

wouldn't stop me for even a second

halik
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:48:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/11/2004 6:50:01 AM EST by s0ulzer0]
All of my ARs are chrome lined except one, which is just ChromeMoly.
I have had zero problems with the non-lined bbl, no difference between it or the ones that are lined.
All are performing the same for me.
I got the non-lined bbl because it was the only one avail when I needed to complete a project,
I have no regrets over it.

~ s0ulzer0
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:51:24 AM EST
Depends on what you plan to use the gun for?

Varmint\hunting rig - no.
Cheap plinker - no (but I made sure mine was chrome lined anyway)
Defensive\SHTF\zombie killer - technically no but it is HIGHLY recommended.

Do you need the barrel right now that you can't wait? Are there no other sources for this exact barrel. Is this manufacturer offering you something special that you can't get elsewhere? This is just my take but I won't buy an AR barrel that isn't ether chrome lined or SS.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:54:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:59:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 7:01:42 AM EST
Stop the Show, HO!

I have a Colt Upper that isn't chrome, and I don't shoot it cuz it SUCKS ASS to clean. I would never buy another non chromed barrel for AR-15.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 7:04:11 AM EST
Cleaing the bore of a non-chrome lined bore is that bad?!?

Anyone else feel this way?

Link Posted: 5/11/2004 7:12:17 AM EST
Look at it this way, I don't know anyone who has a chrome lined barrel. Everything I see on the firing line and everything I read about barrels and their use by and for civilian semi-auto purposes tells me that NO CHROME plating is the way to go.

What is missing from this thread is the REASON why a chrome lined barrel is recommended by those who make such a recommendation. I await their replay.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 7:39:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/11/2004 7:45:09 AM EST by halik]
Chrome lining does have it adavatages...

1. It's easier to clean chrome lined barrel then non-chrome barel, but it's not like "night and day" like some are trying to suggest.

2. Chrome lining is more resistant to wear if you are firing sheet cased ammo with bi-metal bullet jackets (Wolf, Silver Bear, etc.). But they again majority of the people that say they wouldn't buy a barrel without chrome lining never shoot that stuff and only but LC or Win.

3. Chrome lining barrels are corrosin resistant. Moistue is the biggest issue since there is no corrosive ammo. But then again perfect for combat conditions, not needed for civilians.

4. Chromr lining has greater service life then non-chrome lined barrels. Again non issue for civilians since even for non-chrome lined barrel the serivce life is longer then ours. You will be able to pass on the gun for generations without having to replace the barrel.


All in all, if you have extra $$$ and want to spend it go ahead get chrome lined barrel, but otherwise i wouldn't stress it, most people don't meet the requirements where chrome lining is necessary.

halik

halik
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 7:40:41 AM EST
a) no slow, boring shoot-in procedure

b) easier cleaning

c) more resistant to rust

d) longer barrel life

e) may enhance extraction reliability


Moreover manufacturers like Steyr, H&K, FN, Colt, etc. all chrome line their bores- they got to know something about making reliable carbines...
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 7:50:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dont-Tread-On-Me:
Cleaing the bore of a non-chrome lined bore is that bad?!?

Anyone else feel this way?




I haven't experienced any additional cleaning time between the one ChromeMoly bbl I own
or my other bbls that are chrome lined.
Then again, I clean my guns the same day I come back from the range.
Maybe it's a prolonged sitting without cleaning that causes an issue.

~ s0ulzer0
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 7:57:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 8:04:02 AM EST
Makes no difference to me. I've never had any problems with my non-chrome lined barrels.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 8:18:59 AM EST
It would be a show stopper for me too. I have had barrels with and without chrome and I will take chrome lined anyday for the reasons mentioned above.

If you shop around you will see that quality chrome lined barrels are not that much more than unlined ones. I will also say that the "Accuracy Loss" with a quality chrome lined barrel is so small that 99% won't notice it.

JMHO...
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 8:26:38 AM EST
Chrome in your plinkers and perhaps a SHTF gun that might get rough service.

Bare steel in the good stuff.

BTW, "chrome-moly" steel is mild steel with chromium and molybdenum alloying elements - it's about the most average, common, mild strength, and versatile type of steel available - it ain't high tech, no matter what the saleman in the bike shop tells you. Here is some info on a common material used in barrels -
www.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=M434AA
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 8:28:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/11/2004 8:39:51 AM EST by ar-wrench]
The original spec for the AR15 (predates Colt's involvement) did not call for chrome lined barrels.

Fast forward to the great S.E. Asia expidation, and humid, muddy environments coupled with combat conditions called for chrome chambers to ease extraction. Chrome lined barrels quickly followed to help with weapon durability and function.

Today, the U.S. military uses 100% chrome lined barrels on their AR varients.

Am I going into combat with my AR?...NO. But the military did the research and concluded this barrel upgrade is necessary for this weapon system. So I will purchase only chrome lined barrels for this type weapon. Building an AR around a cheap, non-lined barrel is like putting cheap recap tires on a Vette; sure, it works, and you will probably never need the extra performance high quality tires can provide, but do you really want to degrade your machine from the start?

I also have a shotgun and a 1911A1 with chrome lined barrels, living in the south with hot/humid summers will quickly attack barrel bores if neglected. The chrome barrels do clean up quickly.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 8:59:54 AM EST
I agree. A ar15 is as close as the ordinary person can get to a m16. If you want to keep it as close to the m16 you need the chrome lined barrel.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 9:03:54 AM EST
Both should be banned!
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 9:06:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 9:31:33 AM EST
If that don't beat all.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 9:37:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By brouhaha:

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

Originally Posted By Strats:


A manufacturer I'm interesed in purchasing from said they have no chrome barrels in stock and may not for several weeks/months.

Should this be a show-stopper?



I don't know about 'should' but this 'would' be a show-stopper for me.



5sub



Me too.



Me For (est).

Seriously, unless its a match rifle I won't buy a barrel unless its chrome lined.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 9:50:34 AM EST
Chrome lined is a MUST for me.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 9:51:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 9:52:22 AM EST
I have two chrome lined, and 3 that aren't. A couple of extra patches down the bore is about all the difference I see. NOT a deal breaker for me.

If you want to squeeze all the accuracy you can out of a barrel, don't get chrome. If you're gonna be in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and Thailand, and won't be able to clean your rifle for a while, get chrome.

Link Posted: 5/11/2004 9:57:49 AM EST
My SHTF's are chrome, my target rifles are one not chromed, and one stainless.

Chrome just happend to be there for my 20" SHTF, and for the M4 it was only $35 extra so I said what the heck.

If its the barrel you want, but its not chrome, go for it anyway.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 10:04:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 10:31:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/11/2004 10:40:51 AM EST by 123whisper]

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Another chrome-liner. Cheap reliability insurance. I know I know, I could have used the money to buy a pair of calipers to measure groups......




Haha

I always let the customer decide.

"Well, chrome could be less accurate, but I think that chroming process has gotting a lot better since the AR has been around, I mean, that bore is pretty tiny compared to a .30 cal. So the percentage wise, the chrome builds up the bore more...but they pretty much got that figured out now...So yeah, that's true..."

My opinion is that the certain advantages of chrome far outweight the potential disadvantages. A barrel with a chrome-lined bore may be less accurate compared to an entry level chrome moly or even a stainless. But it will definately be easier to clean, more corrosion resistant, longer bore life, and have a reliability advantage.

I have two three guns with chrome bores.

The chrome is always shiny after you wipe it down.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 10:37:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Another chrome-liner. Cheap reliability insurance. I know I know, I could have used the money to buy a pair of calipers to measure groups......

hr


Usually the judges just give you a score...
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 10:50:27 AM EST
Chromelining is great! 3 of my 4 are chromelined. But there are, literally, THOUSANDS of rigs owned by members here that are not chromelined and work fine.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 10:57:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 11:49:03 AM EST
I like 'em chromed.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 12:13:52 PM EST
I'd love to see someone come around here in say, August and try to fire 200 rounds without a chrome lined bore/chamber...



I'd put a whole $5 down and say a failure occurs.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 12:14:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Another chrome-liner. Cheap reliability insurance.........



Exactly, it's not worth it to cheap out the small difference in price.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 12:15:25 PM EST
I personally believe a chromelined bore is a definite advantage.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 2:33:09 PM EST
chrome lined here(wilson $50 option thru J&T) I've had several other military type rifles some chromelined some not. I would go for the chrome lined barrel again. I like them cuz I shoot alot. If i had a choice I would get every gun i own witha a chromelined Chamber. A chromelined bore is great but really the benefits of a chromelined barrel is in the chamber IMO.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 2:33:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By halik:
Chrome lining does have it adavatages...

1. It's easier to clean chrome lined barrel then non-chrome barel, but it's not like "night and day" like some are trying to suggest.

2. Chrome lining is more resistant to wear if you are firing sheet cased ammo with bi-metal bullet jackets (Wolf, Silver Bear, etc.). But they again majority of the people that say they wouldn't buy a barrel without chrome lining never shoot that stuff and only but LC or Win.

3. Chrome lining barrels are corrosin resistant. Moistue is the biggest issue since there is no corrosive ammo. But then again perfect for combat conditions, not needed for civilians.

4. Chromr lining has greater service life then non-chrome lined barrels. Again non issue for civilians since even for non-chrome lined barrel the serivce life is longer then ours. You will be able to pass on the gun for generations without having to replace the barrel.


All in all, if you have extra $$$ and want to spend it go ahead get chrome lined barrel, but otherwise i wouldn't stress it, most people don't meet the requirements where chrome lining is necessary.

halik

halik




That is how I would say it.

Get it if you feel you need to run through Amazon acting like G.I Joe Commando.
You don't really need it for civilian use, nice to have I guess.
Maybe easier to clean but I haven't felt any true differences.
I heard it can drop the accuracy but so little it doesn't matter.

All about preference.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 3:01:39 PM EST
Chrome is the only way to go, if you cannot get the whole barrel chromed then find one with a chrome chamber. Come mid summer there is no way you could fire 150 to 200 rds without chrome down here. Standard unchromed barrel life is about 10,000 to 12,000 rds after that the throat is normally chewed up. A chromed barrel will get about 15,000 to 20,000 rds befoe needing replacement.

Link Posted: 5/11/2004 3:15:23 PM EST
Best part of a chrome lined barrel is that I don't worry if I go 3-5K rounds without cleaning it.

Yeah, I got a dirty gun. So what????????????????

Link Posted: 5/11/2004 4:36:49 PM EST
lazy bastard!
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 4:38:40 PM EST
with all the the,you dont need it if your not in the jungle is crap,it stops moisture from turning the bore and chamber rusty and I like to shoot in bad weather..so I like chrome because its the spec and like the old saying goes I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.The original design didint call for it and the seals had relatively few problems with the earlier rifles because they maintained their rifles when every one else touted it as a self cleaning rifle.Chrome makes for a tougher barrel and hopefully none of us ever find ourselves in a situation where we cant get parts or service but if we do Id rather chrome than not...927
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 5:37:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 7:33:52 PM EST
I like stainless steel
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 8:14:16 PM EST
AZK9 said "I'd love to see someone come around here in say, August and try to fire 200 rounds without a chrome lined bore/chamber... I'd put a whole $5 down and say a failure occurs."

I'd like to take that bet... hope you carry cash.

I have chrome, unlined chrome moly, and SS.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 9:13:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
AZK9 said "I'd love to see someone come around here in say, August and try to fire 200 rounds without a chrome lined bore/chamber... I'd put a whole $5 down and say a failure occurs."

I'd like to take that bet... hope you carry cash.

I have chrome, unlined chrome moly, and SS.


Did I mention those will be mag dumps?
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 3:47:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
What it is it about the manufacturer thats got you hooked on getting one of their guns even though they do not offer chrome lining as a standard/in stock option?



It's a Fulton Armory 20" Phantom. They have no 20's chromed in stock. They said that they have 20 inchers out now getting the chrome treatment. They don't know if it will be a few weeks or a few months.

This will be my first AR so the wait would kill me.

I'm thinking now about a Bushmaster instead. I sent them an email an can get just about the same configuration as the FA.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 6:50:41 AM EST
I re-barreled my first AR (FN USGI 20") because I couldn't stand NOT having a chrome-lined chamber and bore. Why? Because I want the most reliable AR I can get. I'm not shooting match grade ammo nor am I trying to get 1/2" groups from my ARs. For general civilian use, non-chrome bbls will work fine BUT if you want the most reliable AR possible, I would say chrome lined is the way to go.

I've also noticed that more people here want to replace their non-chrome lined bbls with chrome lined bbls than the other way around.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 7:19:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Strats:

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
What it is it about the manufacturer thats got you hooked on getting one of their guns even though they do not offer chrome lining as a standard/in stock option?



It's a Fulton Armory 20" Phantom. They have no 20's chromed in stock. They said that they have 20 inchers out now getting the chrome treatment. They don't know if it will be a few weeks or a few months.

This will be my first AR so the wait would kill me.

I'm thinking now about a Bushmaster instead. I sent them an email an can get just about the same configuration as the FA.



Dude, get the friggin' Fulton Armory, it'll kick ass...don't worry about the lack of a chrome lining for God's sake...there's WAY too much attention being paid to this. My rifles without chrome still go bang whenever I pull the trigger, and the bores are just as shiny as the chrome ones. If it's not gonna be a SHTF super bug out zombie killer gun, DON'T sweat it. Why do you think ALL these different manufacturers make barrels w/o chrome lining? Go to Camp Perry and see how many chrome line rifles you find....my guess is it won't be many.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 8:00:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/12/2004 8:04:17 AM EST by BillSP1]
IF you go with a non chrome lined barrel you can greatly reduce your cleaning chores by properly breaking in the barrel. I know most guys here will say this is BS for an AR15, but fact is it is a bare steel rifle barrel and behaves just like the bare steel rifle barrels that us Precision Rifle guys pamper. And a properly broken in barrel (after the tedious break-in procedure) will clean up much quicker than one that you "bought the rifle took it out and shot the hell out of it". The "boring" break-in process serves to clean the crud out while the first few rounds each burnish the bore. You can do this the first 25 times you shoot 100 rounds and have a filthy mess each time that will take an hour to get clean, or you can do it with the first 50 rounds down the bore in one long morning at the range. After that it will clean up nearly as well as the chrome lined barrel.

Of course the advantage of the chrome bore is rust/corrosion resistance and perhaps easier extraction. All this is assuming bad weather conditions. By the way, you can have any chamber polished for a few dollars by any gunsmith if you like, I do it myself with some Flitz on a jag and a cordless drill if it appears rough (many do), just keep out of the rifling!

As far as accuracy loss with the chrome lined barrel, this is theoretically true, but I have owned a scoped pre-ban Colt HBAR that shot superbly and think it had a chrome barrel.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 9:30:14 AM EST
personally I see only two AR barrels in this world...

chromelined: for high firing rate weapons, shtf weapons, etc

chromemoly: for dedicated marksmanship weapons... stainless's life last too short in my oppinon and chromemoly's shoot excellent...

but for me personally i'll stick with chromelined because i'm crazy and like over built things
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