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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/10/2006 5:36:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 7:46:13 AM EDT by Semafoor]
Hello,

I have come across a ad with a M16A1 from Vietnam for sale. But the sellers states that the weapon is not made by Colt but by General Motor. Did they make M16's during the Vietnam era? And does someone has a picture of the markings on the rifle? And what is it worth?

Thanks.


Added a pic.

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 5:53:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 6:29:46 AM EDT by DasRonin]
IIRC...

I had or saw a GM Hydramatic Corp M-16 when I was in the Army back in the early 1970s.

I am betting someone soon will post with a better recall than I have about this.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:07:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 6:27:27 AM EDT by Ekie]
The GM M16A1 was made by the Hydramatic Division, and are marked Hydramatic.

Most, if not all the transferable ones are rewelds.

ETA

Did not notice his location, so the one he is looking at is not a reweld, it would be one of the 1,000,000 M16 type rifles left behind in Vietnam.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:09:40 AM EDT
Long-time lurker, first time poster. I can finally contribute something!

There were a couple of extra manufacturers when Vietnam was going hot and heavy because Colt could not keep up with demand. GM and Harrington & Richardson were the biggest. I had an H&R in basic training back in the early 80's (sheessh. . . .that was a long time ago!). hock.gif

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:12:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 6:14:25 AM EDT by DanishM1Garand]
I had a GM Hydramatic M16a1 in Bootcamp (Usmc1979) I forget the rollmark tho. I never had anything but Colts in the Corps and Nothing but FN's M16a2's and Colt M16a1's in the Ohio Army Guard. One guy in my platoon in bootcamp had an H&R M16a1. Lots of the M16a1's I had or saw were rollmarked AR15.

He is in the Netherlands. His may well be a battlefield pickup from the war. The Dutch are allowed to own Full Auto but not allowed to fire it Full Auto IIRC.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:16:33 AM EDT
Ive seen a whole bunch of HM (A GM Corp) lowers that were made into M4's by Crane NWSC.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:17:29 AM EDT
here is a pic of a GM M16A1 that I took at the Fort Hood - 1st Cav Museum.
I tried to get a detailed picture but the glass was in the way.
it is a simple roll mark.. no logo.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:23:23 AM EDT
4,999.99 Euros is too much for it.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:25:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DanishM1Garand:
I had a GM Hydramatic M16a1 in Bootcamp (Usmc1979) I forget the rollmark tho. I never had anything but Colts in the Corps and Nothing but FN's M16a2's and Colt M16a1's in the Ohio Army Guard. One guy in my platoon in bootcamp had an H&R M16a1. Lots of the M16a1's I had or saw were rollmarked AR15.

He is in the Netherlands. His may well be a battlefield pickup from the war. The Dutch are allowed to own Full Auto but not allowed to fire it Full Auto IIRC.



Big negative there. Full auto is no-no!
There are only a handful of people that have a special permission to own and shoot FA.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:29:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Punani:

Originally Posted By DanishM1Garand:
I had a GM Hydramatic M16a1 in Bootcamp (Usmc1979) I forget the rollmark tho. I never had anything but Colts in the Corps and Nothing but FN's M16a2's and Colt M16a1's in the Ohio Army Guard. One guy in my platoon in bootcamp had an H&R M16a1. Lots of the M16a1's I had or saw were rollmarked AR15.

He is in the Netherlands. His may well be a battlefield pickup from the war. The Dutch are allowed to own Full Auto but not allowed to fire it Full Auto IIRC.



Big negative there. Full auto is no-no!
There are only a handful of people that have a special permission to own and shoot FA.



Partly true only a very few people are allowed to own FA weapons. But if they are build back to semi we may own them. We have FAL and G3 that are build back to semi auto.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:30:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
4,999.99 Euros is too much for it.



He he so you found the site huh?

What do you think it is worth?
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 6:31:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 7:08:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 7:13:57 AM EDT by scottryan]
No offense, but you appear not to be in the market for something like this if you have to ask if it is original and how much is it worth.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 7:12:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 7:13:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 7:16:28 AM EDT by scottryan]
Because most people know this stuff before they want to buy one.

I took his post as one of those persons who has never looked at the stuff and is asking how they can get XYZ title 2 item for cheap.

I maybe wrong and I apologize for that.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 7:17:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 7:19:05 AM EDT by Punani]

Originally Posted By Semafoor:

Originally Posted By Punani:

Originally Posted By DanishM1Garand:
I had a GM Hydramatic M16a1 in Bootcamp (Usmc1979) I forget the rollmark tho. I never had anything but Colts in the Corps and Nothing but FN's M16a2's and Colt M16a1's in the Ohio Army Guard. One guy in my platoon in bootcamp had an H&R M16a1. Lots of the M16a1's I had or saw were rollmarked AR15.

He is in the Netherlands. His may well be a battlefield pickup from the war. The Dutch are allowed to own Full Auto but not allowed to fire it Full Auto IIRC.



Big negative there. Full auto is no-no!
There are only a handful of people that have a special permission to own and shoot FA.




Partly true only a very few people are allowed to own FA weapons. But if they are build back to semi we may own them. We have FAL and G3 that are build back to semi auto.



Eplain to me how my statement is partially true

-edit: Can you post or IM a link to the site?
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 7:41:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
No offense, but you appear not to be in the market for something like this if you have to ask if it is original and how much is it worth.



Hello,

I know some things about this. I was looking for a Colt M16A1. Then I found one from GM. I asked how much it is worth because I thought 5000 euro (6000 US Dollars) is to much and wanted to know the opinion of some of you guys. Because the seller said that they sell them for 14K in the US which I knew. Also because the auto sear is removend it can only fire semi auto so maybe the value is less.

Also I was aware that M16A1's where made by other company's besides Colt but not by GM during the Vietnam war. (Just to check the story of the seller that said it is a rifle from Vietnam).


And to say I am not in the market for some like "this" is not true you must rember that it is not FA so you can better compare it to a AR15.

Link Posted: 2/10/2006 7:43:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Punani:

Originally Posted By Semafoor:

Originally Posted By Punani:

Originally Posted By DanishM1Garand:
I had a GM Hydramatic M16a1 in Bootcamp (Usmc1979) I forget the rollmark tho. I never had anything but Colts in the Corps and Nothing but FN's M16a2's and Colt M16a1's in the Ohio Army Guard. One guy in my platoon in bootcamp had an H&R M16a1. Lots of the M16a1's I had or saw were rollmarked AR15.

He is in the Netherlands. His may well be a battlefield pickup from the war. The Dutch are allowed to own Full Auto but not allowed to fire it Full Auto IIRC.



Big negative there. Full auto is no-no!
There are only a handful of people that have a special permission to own and shoot FA.




Partly true only a very few people are allowed to own FA weapons. But if they are build back to semi we may own them. We have FAL and G3 that are build back to semi auto.



Eplain to me how my statement is partially true

-edit: Can you post or IM a link to the site?



Alright you are right when can own former FA rifles .

Link
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 7:56:37 AM EDT
You'd be suprised. Singer Sewing Machines made rifles during that era
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 8:00:10 AM EDT
Semafoor, the US prices are of no use to you in calculating the value of this M16. Short story is that US citizens can own machineguns but the number that could be legally owned was set in 1986. As a result, there is relatively high demand for the small supply that's available. There would be only a handful of GM Hydramatics included in that number, and they are highly sought after by collectors.

A better way to approach this is to look at the premium that a Hydromatic commands over a Colt M16. In the US, a Colt M16 is about $13k, and a GM Hydromatic about $20k. If you go by that measure, then what you should pay for this Hydramatic is about 50% premium over what you can purchase a similar Colt M16 for.

HTH.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 8:15:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 8:16:07 AM EDT by Semafoor]
Ok thanks for all the responses. I am going to ask him if he just wants to sell the lower.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:02:28 AM EDT
The Mississippi National Guard had quite a few of them ten years ago. I never have seen a transferable one, but I am way the hell out of the price range for anything in the Class III world so I don't look too much.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:06:54 AM EDT
this is way too expensive...
the guy is trying to rip you off..US prices have nothing to do with prices in europe.
Since you will be shooting semi, might as well buy a nice COLT AR15.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:31:53 AM EDT
+1, get a nice Oberland or something
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 1:40:53 PM EDT
But what about the build quality? Is it a good as a Colt?
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 3:07:57 PM EDT
As good as, built to the same specs, they had the TDP
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 3:10:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 3:40:33 PM EDT by IAMLEGEND]

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By Semafoor:
Hello,

I have come across a ad with a M16A1 from Vietnam for sale. But the sellers states that the weapon is not made by Colt but by General Motor. Did they make M16's during the Vietnam era? And does someone has a picture of the markings on the rifle? And what is it worth?

Thanks.



No offense, but you appear not to be in the market for something like this if you have to ask if it is original and how much is it worth.



If he wants to buy an M16 how is he supposed to start?



Exactly.

This is the first place I would come for help on a purchase like this.


ETA: FWIW, my buddy has a GM Hydromatics M-16 lower. I gather it is worth about $12,000 but that's a pretty rough number based on what I've been told, not what I know.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 3:27:26 PM EDT
Years ago Doug Offinger(DLO Manufacturing) had some H&R's in his shop that were uncut originals. I think he said they came out of H&R when they closed shop! He also had uncut M14's with plugged barrels that he replaced w/new barrels. I have seen cut GM lowers years ago at Knob Creek
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