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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/2/2006 7:55:57 AM EDT
I posted in the General Forum. Found out on the outdoor wire. for Feb 2nd.
BUYING:
Venerable firearms brand Colt's defense division has been sold to General Dynamics. The purchase preempts a public offering for that portion of the Colt company. The consumer portion of the bifurcated company (consumer/defense), is also being sold, with sources telling The Outdoor Wire the deal is "all-but-done". A total of eleven potential suitors were said to have been kicking the tires on the venerable brand. The winner may shock most of the firearms industry - as well as the other bidders.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:59:39 AM EDT
Yes this has been posted before... We're just waiting for the official confirmation.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:14:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:29:42 AM EDT
dupe
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:51:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
I have really not kept up on this so this may be a dumb question.

If there are 2 Colt companies (Colt Defense and Colt MFG), and GD owns Colt Defense, then they would be 2 separate entities that share a similar name. . .correct ?

They would be under separate management and have to answer to a separate board of directors . . .?

In some sense, would the Colt MFG MT6400 actually compete with the Colt Defense LE6920 ?
Would Colt MFG be privey to, or modifications of the M4 or M16 TDP ?
Who gets the trademarked pony logo ?




You cant answer that unless you read the purchase/acquisition agreements.

These kind of details are worked out there.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:52:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 10:56:16 AM EDT by mm34b]

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
I have really not kept up on this so this may be a dumb question.

If there are 2 Colt companies (Colt Defense and Colt MFG), and GD owns Colt Defense, then they would be 2 separate entities that share a similar name. . .correct ?

They would be under separate management and have to answer to a separate board of directors . . .?

In some sense, would the Colt MFG MT6400 actually compete with the Colt Defense LE6920 ?
Would Colt MFG be privey to, or modifications of the M4 or M16 TDP ?
Who gets the trademarked pony logo ?




Dace has it. I would also imagine a continued partnership with GD & Colt MFG at least for a few years.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 11:00:57 AM EDT
michaelbane.blogspot.com/2006/02/colt-sold-industry-roiling-before-shot.html

Thursday, February 02, 2006
Colt Sold! Industry Roiling Before SHOT...
Hartford's Rampant Colt is going to a new home — actually new homes — ending years of speculation on when the sad little horse was going to just keel over and die.

Brother Jim Shepherd at The Outdoor Wire is reporting this AM that the defense side of the bifurcated company, which had been making noises abut going public, has been sold to General Dynamics, and that an announcement of the sale of the commercial side is moments away...and, according to Shepherd, a shocker

<snipped, see URL for complete story>
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 11:01:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mm34b:

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
I have really not kept up on this so this may be a dumb question.

If there are 2 Colt companies (Colt Defense and Colt MFG), and GD owns Colt Defense, then they would be 2 separate entities that share a similar name. . .correct ?

They would be under separate management and have to answer to a separate board of directors . . .?

In some sense, would the Colt MFG MT6400 actually compete with the Colt Defense LE6920 ?
Would Colt MFG be privey to, or modifications of the M4 or M16 TDP ?
Who gets the trademarked pony logo ?




Dace has it. I would also imagine a continued partnership with GD & Colt MFG at least for a few years.



I would also just guess (again its pure speculation) that General Dynamics got the TDP based on what GD does. They more then likely bought Colt purely for their defense contracts and nothing else. Although the Colt name and trademarked pony carry an intangible value, GD might not care about that, again because of what they do (defense contracts).
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 11:09:17 AM EDT
As I said before, Colt's has been sold many times, not a big deal. A split with separate ownership is much more interesting.

I don't know what the deals is with Colt's MFG and Colt's Defense in regards to their semiauto line. I would find it hard to belive Colt's set up two machining centers, assembly stations, etc for the semiauto stuff and military stuff. And to make it more confusing two of my three MT6400C's are roll marked Colt's Defence.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 11:36:19 AM EDT
Correct me if I'm wrong I've been in the sand too long. Didn't GD also purchase from HK the XM8?

CD
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 11:46:00 AM EDT
I believe GD did purchase the XM8 from H&K... I guess GD just needs to buy FN now and it will have a lock on the next rifle contract no matter which one the Army goes with...
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 12:25:37 PM EDT
IBTL
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 12:29:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts:
I believe GD did purchase the XM8 from H&K... I guess GD just needs to buy FN now and it will have a lock on the next rifle contract no matter which one the Army goes with...



Yes and these may eventually be realted

The Colt M8


I believe this will be exactly what Colt has needed for a long long time

I hope so.

Dupe Nazi's ......Give it a rest, for crying out loud!
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 12:41:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 12:42:27 PM EDT by BravoCompanyUSA]
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 12:50:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
So you may end up with "Colt" and a "Colt copy". Which one is the "real" Colt ?
How many pages will the "Colt MFG vs Colt Def" threads go. (my pony can beat up your pony)

my head hurts . . .



Colt queer against Colt queer. This'll be good.

Link Posted: 2/2/2006 1:29:57 PM EDT
Holy crap! I can say du...duu...duuuu. Fuck it. I hate that word.

Don't feel bad. Check out my thread when I posted it about a week ago (of course I had the sense not to post it in the GD area with all of the cop haters and dope smokers).

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=266161
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 2:26:45 PM EDT
This is good for Colt and GD. They have a base weapon and the connections and government channels of Colt. Could bring some interesting results.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:20:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bcw107:
Holy crap! I can say du...duu...duuuu. Fuck it. I hate that word.

Don't feel bad. Check out my thread when I posted it about a week ago (of course I had the sense not to post it in the GD area with all of the cop haters and dope smokers).

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=266161



Well... this was actually brought up about two months ago, very old news by now. GD bought Colt Def and the designs, they are interested in XXXXXXX. They also have bought the XM8 and a couple of other projects. The folks I talked to at Colt Canada the day the deal was brokered (last december iirc) told me that they are part of Colt Def and will go wherever Colt Def goes...

There are some new things coming, rest assured on that
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:47:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bcw107:
Holy crap! I can say du...duu...duuuu. Fuck it. I hate that word.

Don't feel bad. Check out my thread when I posted it about a week ago (of course I had the sense not to post it in the GD area with all of the cop haters and dope smokers).

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=266161



Ahhh, do you want a cookie?
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:01:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:20:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 7:26:07 PM EDT by Dace]

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
I wonder if we could be looking at the end of Colt MFG ?

If they do not make a AR/MT series, can the company survive on 1911's and SAA sales alone ?

I don't know the answer, but I hope we don't loose the heritage of those American sidearms.



If they dont change and diversify they probably wont survive past 2011 (I think its that year or sometime before 2010) thats a fact.

The TDP will no longer be the sole property of Colt.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:22:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

The TDP will no longer be the sole property of Colt.



Who told you that little gem?
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:29:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 7:29:48 PM EDT by BravoCompanyUSA]
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:48:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunzilla:

Originally Posted By Dace:

The TDP will no longer be the sole property of Colt.



Who told you that little gem?



The M4 Addendum.

Colt loses sole rights to the TDP in 2011 or 2009 I cant remember exactly. The government is allowed to use the TDP for competitive procurements. Basically they are allowed to give it out.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:56:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Colt loses sole rights to the TDP in 2011 or 2009 I cant remember exactly.



Ahhhh, so what you are saying that in three to five years, the Gov may be able to use the TDP in open solicitations? Naturally, you understand that this certainly does not mean that it will be openly available and they will most likely keep pretty tight control on it... if there even is interest in it at that point.

I will look at it when I get home and let you know exactly what it says if you like... but thanks for the glimps of things to come.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:59:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunzilla:

Originally Posted By Dace:

Colt loses sole rights to the TDP in 2011 or 2009 I cant remember exactly.



Ahhhh, so what you are saying that in three to five years, the Gov may be able to use the TDP in open solicitations? Naturally, you understand that this certainly does not mean that it will be openly available and they will most likely keep pretty tight control on it... if there even is interest in it at that point.

I will look at it when I get home and let you know exactly what it says if you like... but thanks for the glimps of things to come.



If its anything like what happened with FN, the government will give it to anyone who they think can compete.

You dont think it will get out in this day and age?
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:23:11 PM EDT
That is when the sole source agreement ends on the M4. After that the TDP will still be Colt's and subject to the licence agreement. There will also be royalties to pay if the Government chooses to solicit others.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:31:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 9:38:24 PM EDT by Variablebinary]

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By Gunzilla:

Originally Posted By Dace:

The TDP will no longer be the sole property of Colt.



Who told you that little gem?



The M4 Addendum.

Colt loses sole rights to the TDP in 2011 or 2009 I cant remember exactly. The government is allowed to use the TDP for competitive procurements. Basically they are allowed to give it out.



Who the hell is going to care in 2011. That is like wanting a Mauser or Mosin TDP during the vietnam war...

Colt and GD will have offered up some new toys by then. But the most important question will be if the next generation of guns are parked under the FSB, or how old the concrete is in the company parking lot, or something like that
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:34:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By Gunzilla:

Originally Posted By Dace:

The TDP will no longer be the sole property of Colt.



Who told you that little gem?



The M4 Addendum.

Colt loses sole rights to the TDP in 2011 or 2009 I cant remember exactly. The government is allowed to use the TDP for competitive procurements. Basically they are allowed to give it out.



Who the hell is going to care in 2011. That is like wanting a Mauser or Mosin TDP during the vietnam war...



That is what I was thinking... and even then it will not be "open and available to all". Just about means jackshit to the topic really...
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:53:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 6:54:06 AM EDT by Ekie]
Seems to me that the M4 TDP is relevant, if buying Colt's Defence that would be their biggest asset. Unless you are a gambling man, and think one of their prototypes has potential.

In regards to the Match Target, and LE line, I am convinced that those are made on the same production line as is the military stuff.

Four reasons I say this, first off it is cheaper. Second the guy that posted his little essay on his tour of Colt's MFG said there was a gate separating the two companies, and his description of the Colt's MFG side was limited to pistols. Third, Mark a current Colt's employee said that Match Target production has been pushed off till the third quarter to make room for military demand. Forth a former Colt's employee posts here, and he said so.

So, the owner of Colt's Defence owns the M4/A1, Match Target, and the LE production lines.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 7:01:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 7:39:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:

Originally Posted By Ekie:
Seems to me that the M4 TDP is relevant, if buying Colt's Defence that would be their biggest asset. Unless you are a gambling man, and think one of their prototypes has potential.

In regards to the Match Target, and LE line, I am convinced that those are made on the same production line as is the military stuff.

Four reasons I say this, first off it is cheaper. Second the guy that posted his little essay on his tour of Colt's MFG said there was a gate separating the two companies, and his description of the Colt's MFG side was limited to pistols. Third, Mark a current Colt's employee said that Match Target production has been pushed off till the third quarter to make room for military demand. Forth a former Colt's employee posts here, and he said so.

So, the owner of Colt's Defence owns the M4/A1, Match Target, and the LE production lines.




How viable would Colt MFG be then ?
It would have to be able to stand on its own two feet without any help from Colt Defense.
(I am referencing the shared allocation of overhead expenditures under the current arrangement)
Going back to the essay (as referenced above), it did not seem the 1911 and SAA were overflowing on the production lines.



I really don't know squat about that. Just not interesting to me. There have been plenty of guys here that are into 19th and early 20th Century stuff, and they tell me in no uncertain terms that Colt's MFG is all washed up.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 8:49:42 AM EDT
I thought Boeing got the rights to the XM8.
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