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Posted: 11/30/2007 2:22:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2007 11:49:11 PM EDT by sgtgrits]
My G/F has just joined us with a Bushmaster lower, Bushmaster barreled 20" 1 in 7 twist rifle. It will be used for first line home defense until a hand gun is purchased. The problem is she lives in a mobile home park i.e. very close quarters. God forbid she ever has to resort to using it in this capacity as obviously we have great concerns about a round hitting a neighbor/neighbor's trailer. I need some ammo suggestions...thoughts and/or concerns for this situation. Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 2:25:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2007 2:25:54 PM EDT by osprey21]
Mobile home = Bayonet

Link Posted: 11/30/2007 2:31:32 PM EDT
That is tuff. A frag bullet or some Hornady/Black Hills Varmit type round. Depends on distance, what the mobil home is made of, and the neighbors.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 2:36:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2007 2:46:20 PM EDT by sgtgrits]
height=8
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Mobile home = Bayonet

he
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 2:42:08 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By ffhounddog:
That is tuff. A frag bullet or some Hornady/Black Hills Varmit type round. Depends on distance, what the mobil home is made of, and the neighbors.


That's why I brought this to the hive. Distance?.....everything is close in this environmenthatever. Neighbors Construction?.....Flesh and bones.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 2:43:49 PM EDT
This isnt the dark side... this is the light!
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 2:44:14 PM EDT
With the 20inch barrel I just use M193

buy a carbine upper for her and 75gr OTM
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 2:57:01 PM EDT
I saw the title & thought of something else... Glad its a rifle.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 3:26:14 PM EDT
40gr varmint bullets worked very well for Evan Smith.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 3:27:11 PM EDT
870 with a medium sized load. Seriously.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 3:44:09 PM EDT
Marry her and get her the hell out of the mobile home park.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 3:57:23 PM EDT
Get some hornady 75gr OTM rounds, or black hills 75/77 grain OTM
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 4:21:00 PM EDT
Could always grab the business end and use it as a big black club!


Turk
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 4:53:10 PM EDT
Most 5.56 rounds will do more than hit a neighbor's trailer. It'll go through it and the next five homes.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 5:51:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2007 5:53:20 PM EDT by cckw]
Perhaps some planning to shoot from the floor would be the best plan. Assuming this isn't on a hillside shooting from a low position (bed as a bench, sitting in the corner etc) will get a safer angle on the bullet after it leaves the trailer. This should be easy to acomplish as she should be in a defensive position rather going to confront the intruder
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 6:33:06 PM EDT
First off, CONGRATULATIONS! for having such a cool chick. My wife shoots some of my guns but won't go near my Bushmaster.

I also most apologize for some peeps here that don't know when NOT to joke. This is a serious situation and must be addressed. I sugest a CIENER kit for now. This kit converts her rife to shoot 22LR ammo which is very effective at close range and it's inexpensive and available anywhere. This kit can be used with 30rnd mags which have plenty of firepower to deal with a threat. Then she can buy her handgun, make sure she gets a GLOCK 9mm

Good luck!
223SAINT
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 7:35:16 PM EDT
I'd leave the ball peen hammer right where it is.....its going to be easier to get out of the drawer and use than trying to get an AR and use in close combat if the intruder isn't discovered until they are in the room already. Hit fast and hard, then maybe the AR comes out. I like the idea of a defense position shooting up from the floor, but may not alway be practical/ideal/realistic. I would use M193 or equivilent, as everything we see having to do with penetrating barriers (walls, windshields, car doors) shows it to be ineffective and less lethal (not safe, just less lethal) after passing through an obstruction.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 8:30:57 PM EDT
Federal R2LP 50gr. frangible I guess.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 8:50:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 223SAINT:
First off, CONGRATULATIONS! for having such a cool chick. My wife shoots some of my guns but won't go near my Bushmaster.

I also most apologize for some peeps here that don't know when NOT to joke. This is a serious situation and must be addressed. I sugest a CIENER kit for now. This kit converts her rife to shoot 22LR ammo which is very effective at close range and it's inexpensive and available anywhere. This kit can be used with 30rnd mags which have plenty of firepower to deal with a threat. Then she can buy her handgun, make sure she gets a GLOCK 9mm

Good luck!
223SAINT


Oh I know when not to joke and I am about to not be joking.

Are you seriously suggesting a .22 for home defense when she has the capability to use it in a .223 capacity? Buy Frangible ammo if you are worried about overpenetration. The point of self defense is not to wound your enemy. It is to stop the threat. More power and a bullet that creates a good permanent wound path is the way that is accomplished.

Make sure she gets a glock 9mm? What if she doesnt like glocks? They might not feel comfortable to her. Telling people exactly what to buy based on your personal preference is not the most productive thing in the world. Suggest that she try one out? Hell yes. But not "make sure she gets a GLOCK 9MM"
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:56:46 PM EDT
haha yeah dont get a glock "fourty" it'll probably blow up and send fragments into her new AR, that's pretty big rifle to swing around inside a house, anything will work fine IMO
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 10:04:43 PM EDT
This thread is useless without pictures.






Of the girlfriend of course.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 4:48:47 AM EDT
Some here are not a fan of ammoman, www.ammoman.com

He has some 50 grain frangible rounds. They are expensive though.

Link Posted: 12/1/2007 5:39:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mvintx:
Most 5.56 rounds will do more than hit a neighbor's trailer. It'll go through it and the next five homes.




Correct, and worth repeating.



Link Posted: 12/1/2007 6:57:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2007 7:01:48 AM EDT by FMJ]

Originally Posted By USCG_Always_Ready:
Some here are not a fan of ammoman, www.ammoman.com

He has some 50 grain frangible rounds. They are expensive though.



DO NOT USE

THATS FOR HITTING STEEL PLATES ONLY

it will pass threw wood / alum sideing like a Champ


also needs a 1/7 twist its a VERY LONG BULLET
Ive heard key hole problems with 1/9


BTW I do like ERIC and bought ammo from him since 2001
Never ever heard bad things about him !

UNTIL the SKS Deal!
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 6:59:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dixiedawg:

Originally Posted By mvintx:
Most 5.56 rounds will do more than hit a neighbor's trailer. It'll go through it and the next five homes.




Correct, and worth repeating.






some frag when hitting Gel
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 7:22:24 AM EDT
Loan her a handgun?
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 7:40:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ:

Originally Posted By USCG_Always_Ready:
Some here are not a fan of ammoman, www.ammoman.com

He has some 50 grain frangible rounds. They are expensive though.



DO NOT USE

THATS FOR HITTING STEEL PLATES ONLY

it will pass threw wood / alum sideing like a Champ


also needs a 1/7 twist its a VERY LONG BULLET
Ive heard key hole problems with 1/9


BTW I do like ERIC and bought ammo from him since 2001
Never ever heard bad things about him !

UNTIL the SKS Deal!



Frangible ammunition is designed to break apart into small pieces upon contact with hard targets to reduce ricochets and limit penetration.www.ammoman.com/atk_awarded.htm

Frangible, or “soft,” rounds are designed to break apart when they hit walls or other hard surfaces to prevent ricochets during close-quarters combat. Frangible ammunition represents the first viable revolutionary change to firearms science in the past 100 years.www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/frangible.htm

I was under the impression that frangibles were alot better at not over penitrating. I guess it depends on how hard the walls of the moble home are. Too may ifs.... probably should just call the cops and await a rescue..

She is shooting 1-7 twist.... from the OP's first post.
My G/F has just joined us with a Bushmaster lower, Bushmaster barreled 20" 1 in 7 twist rifle.

Link Posted: 12/1/2007 9:43:28 AM EDT
IMHO, stabilizing the heavier/longer bullet because of the 1:7 twist is immaterial. At "bedroom" ranges pinpoint accuracy is "minute of chest cavity". My 1:7 twist Colt HBAR used to be the go to gun and was kept loaded with 60gr. VMax. That's about as light as my gun would stabilize. I handloaded these and I don't know if there is a factory load with them but I'd guess there is. When I tested this load, as I do all my loads, in soaking wet packed newspaper I saw both good penetration and fragmentation. I didn't feel the penetration would endanger my neighbors but it would go through heavy clothing quite effectively. I live in a house not a trailer though. Since you live in MI, the clothing should be a consideration. At this time of year an intruder will likely be wearing heavy warm clothing. You've got to get to the vitals through that.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 9:52:39 AM EDT
i'm pretty sure any 5.56 round will go through any "heavy winter clothing" we're not talking about a .38special here
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 11:21:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 11:26:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtgrits:

Originally Posted By osprey21:

Mobile home = Bayonet



Maybe she should stick to the ball peen hammer she keeps on her night stand




I say use a heavy cast iron skillet!



Bear
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 12:51:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2007 12:55:16 PM EDT by sgtgrits]
Thanks for all...wellhis
An AR lower deal came up and that's why she went with it before the hand gun. She chose to finish it with the 20" upper as opposed to a carbine length after a good deal of thought and discussion. A carbine upper at a later date is possible if she really gets the disease badhe. Please keep the thoughts coming though......we appreciate them.

ETA...just an FYI she does have a tele-stock on this weapon.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 2:28:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2007 2:32:54 PM EDT by FMJ]

Originally Posted By USCG_Always_Ready:

Originally Posted By FMJ:

Originally Posted By USCG_Always_Ready:
Some here are not a fan of ammoman, www.ammoman.com

He has some 50 grain frangible rounds. They are expensive though.



DO NOT USE

THATS FOR HITTING STEEL PLATES ONLY

it will pass threw wood / alum sideing like a Champ


also needs a 1/7 twist its a VERY LONG BULLET
Ive heard key hole problems with 1/9


BTW I do like ERIC and bought ammo from him since 2001
Never ever heard bad things about him !

UNTIL the SKS Deal!



Frangible ammunition is designed to break apart into small pieces upon contact with hard targets to reduce ricochets and limit penetration.www.ammoman.com/atk_awarded.htm

Frangible, or “soft,” rounds are designed to break apart when they hit walls or other hard surfaces to prevent ricochets during close-quarters combat. Frangible ammunition represents the first viable revolutionary change to firearms science in the past 100 years.www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/frangible.htm

I was under the impression that frangibles were alot better at not over penitrating. I guess it depends on how hard the walls of the moble home are. Too may ifs.... probably should just call the cops and await a rescue..

She is shooting 1-7 twist.... from the OP's first post.
My G/F has just joined us with a Bushmaster lower, Bushmaster barreled 20" 1 in 7 twist rifle.



OLD PAINLESS I think is HIS aka
Didnt he do a test

anyway the ammoman frag ammo is for steel plates and will go threw lots of wood/ alum sheet metal etc!


Win RANGER 45gr might frag better than the above

but I wouldnt use it
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 2:30:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:
Based on most of the responses here, I'm guessing most of you have not read the threads tacked at the top of this forum?

Get her some 75gr BlackHills or 75gr TAP and some training. With a hit from that round you will not have to worry about the round going through the threat and into the neighbors trailer (unlike many handgun and shotgun loads).

A longarm is also going to be easier for her to aim compared to a handgun so she'll be less likely to miss.

Agreed on FMJ's proposal to get her a carbine upper (say with a 14.5" M4 barrel and permanently attached Vortex or Phantom) and a telestock (so the rifle will fit her better).


Dont you know Forest
that agreeing with me is very dangerous
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 2:31:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Masha:
Marry her and get her the hell out of the mobile home park.


if you don't I will
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 2:47:13 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By Forest:
Based on most of the responses here, I'm guessing most of you have not read the threads tacked at the top of this forum?

Get her some 75gr BlackHills or 75gr TAP and some training. With a hit from that round you will not have to worry about the round going through the threat and into the neighbors trailer (unlike many handgun and shotgun loads).

A longarm is also going to be easier for her to aim compared to a handgun so she'll be less likely to miss.

Agreed on FMJ's proposal to get her a carbine upper (say with a 14.5" M4 barrel and permanently attached Vortex or Phantom) and a telestock (so the rifle will fit her better).


Is this the stuff you are suggesting, Forest????


20rds - .223 Hornady TAP LEO 75gr. HP Ammo

This is .223 Hornady TAP Law Enforcement 75gr. Hollow Point Ammo. This ammo is typically only available to law enforcement and military personnel through Hornady. This ammo offers consistent pinpoint accuracy from bolt-action and semi-auto rifles. Reduced chance of collateral damage from over-penetration or ricochet. 100% Energy transfer to target, for instant terminal results and reduced need for repeat shots. No tip deformation caused by administrative loading & unloading of the weapon or the impacting of the tip in semi-auto magazines under recoil. This ammo is packed 20rds per box, 200rds. per case. It is packed in the RED law enforcement boxes.

Link Posted: 12/1/2007 11:58:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2007 12:02:18 AM EDT by FMJ]

Originally Posted By sgtgrits:

Originally Posted By Forest:
Based on most of the responses here, I'm guessing most of you have not read the threads tacked at the top of this forum?

Get her some 75gr BlackHills or 75gr TAP and some training. With a hit from that round you will not have to worry about the round going through the threat and into the neighbors trailer (unlike many handgun and shotgun loads).

A longarm is also going to be easier for her to aim compared to a handgun so she'll be less likely to miss.

Agreed on FMJ's proposal to get her a carbine upper (say with a 14.5" M4 barrel and permanently attached Vortex or Phantom) and a telestock (so the rifle will fit her better).


Is this the stuff you are suggesting, Forest????


20rds - .223 Hornady TAP LEO 75gr. HP Ammo

This is .223 Hornady TAP Law Enforcement 75gr. Hollow Point Ammo. This ammo is typically only available to law enforcement and military personnel through Hornady. This ammo offers consistent pinpoint accuracy from bolt-action and semi-auto rifles. Reduced chance of collateral damage from over-penetration or ricochet. 100% Energy transfer to target, for instant terminal results and reduced need for repeat shots. No tip deformation caused by administrative loading & unloading of the weapon or the impacting of the tip in semi-auto magazines under recoil. This ammo is packed 20rds per box, 200rds. per case. It is packed in the RED law enforcement boxes.



My POST #7 buy a carbine upper and 75grOTM

5.56 75gr TAP

223 75gr TAP & Black Hills 75gr OTM BH 75gr use a Hornady 75gr TAP bullet

Black Hills White box MK262 77gr OTM



some black Hills Blue box is a TAD bit Hotter than 223 75gr TAP

Black Hills has a cannaclure also

I use BH Blue 75gr myself along with MK262 for protection


ALSO READ the tacked up thread about BEST AMMO PICKS FOR PROTECTION ETC!

LOTS OF INFO

and a list of 223/5.56mm
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 2:31:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2007 2:44:20 AM EDT by sgtgrits]
FMJ wrote.........My POST #7 buy a carbine upper and 75grOTM

5.56 75gr TAP

223 75gr TAP & Black Hills 75gr OTM BH 75gr use a Hornady 75gr TAP bullet

Black Hills White box MK262 77gr OTM



some black Hills Blue box is a TAD bit Hotter than 223 75gr TAP

Black Hills has a cannaclure also

I use BH Blue 75gr myself along with MK262 for protection


ALSO READ the tacked up thread about BEST AMMO PICKS FOR PROTECTION ETC!

LOTS OF INFO

and a list of 223/5.56mm


Thanks FMJ...and didn't mean to ignore/acknowledge your post with 75grOTM also.

I had read the tacked thread and some other "stuff" on the interwebs. The reason I picked the Hornady Tap "red" LEO box propaganda to quote is because it specifically mentions over penetration. She's still in the mobile home since I started this threadh
Do all TAP loads = lower chance of over penetration? I just want to make sure I don't pick up one of them there "barrier penetration" loads by accident!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 2:54:06 AM EDT
I say get the 75 grain TAP or the 55-40 grain TAP. if you are afraid of hitting the next place. I am more worried about my safety and my wife if its in my hime so I have 75 grain TAP and 62 grain Barrier. I like my Barrier rounds.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 5:53:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtgrits:
FMJ wrote.........My POST #7 buy a carbine upper and 75grOTM

5.56 75gr TAP

223 75gr TAP & Black Hills 75gr OTM BH 75gr use a Hornady 75gr TAP bullet

Black Hills White box MK262 77gr OTM



some black Hills Blue box is a TAD bit Hotter than 223 75gr TAP

Black Hills has a cannaclure also

I use BH Blue 75gr myself along with MK262 for protection


ALSO READ the tacked up thread about BEST AMMO PICKS FOR PROTECTION ETC!

LOTS OF INFO

and a list of 223/5.56mm


Thanks FMJ...and didn't mean to ignore/acknowledge your post with 75grOTM also.

I had read the tacked thread and some other "stuff" on the interwebs. The reason I picked the Hornady Tap "red" LEO box propaganda to quote is because it specifically mentions over penetration. She's still in the mobile home since I started this thread. It's kinda confusing(at least to me) with all the black boxes...red boxes....white boxes....blue boxes...etc. It took me a bit to figure out what OTM(open tip match) meant as I have found it is not mentioned clearly in most of the ammo ads/specs.

Do all TAP loads = lower chance of over penetration? I just want to make sure I don't pick up one of them there "barrier penetration" loads by accident!!!!!



If your Lady shoots at CQ the 75gr will frag big time with that 20inch barrel
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 6:00:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ffhounddog:
I say get the 75 grain TAP or the 55-40 grain TAP. if you are afraid of hitting the next place. I am more worried about my safety and my wife if its in my hime so I have 75 grain TAP and 62 grain Barrier. I like my Barrier rounds.



For my Family and Home etc

Black Hills 75gr OTM

Weapon

Factory LMT Defender 2000 M4 14.5+phantom
&
LMT 14.5 + phantom 4slot M4 with Bushy lower VLTOR 30.5inch RETRACTED STOCK
makes for a better Home Protection Carbine
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 10:01:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtgrits:
Thanks for all...well....most of your feedback so far. I know this is not an ideal situation for the AR as a home defense weapon especially the 20"er. A hand gun will be purchased in the near future. She wants to get her CPL. A wheel gun has already been picked out.

An AR lower deal came up and that's why she went with it before the hand gun. She chose to finish it with the 20" upper as opposed to a carbine length after a good deal of thought and discussion. A carbine upper at a later date is possible if she really gets the disease bad.

I'm leaning toward the 75/77gr TAP "type" round with the comments here and my research. The cast iron skillet is on her X-mas list as a back up to the ball peen hammer. Please keep the thoughts coming though......we appreciate them.

ETA...just an FYI she does have a tele-stock on this weapon.


Handgun will usually penetrate more than 5.56. This isn't always the case, but seems to be it most of the time.

If you had a 1-9 twist I'd say 40 grain v-max, although it is a piss poor stopper on anything bigger than varmints.
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