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Posted: 5/15/2012 8:12:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2012 3:04:09 AM EDT by semperserveranceSTA]
Went to Ft. Campbell to see my brother before he PCSs to Germany. As a former member of STA PLT 1st Bn. 3rd Marines and experience in the Al Anbar Province, Iraq, I was looking forward to going out on the UKD range. Weather Sat. and Sun. was very overcast with full value wind going from 3 to 9 (gusting with light rain).
Using a Stag Model 8 Plus Package with a 16 in. bbl., and a mil-spec M4 with a 14.5 bbl., we proceeded to shoot. I was using 75gr Hornady Steel Match (BTHP). I'll be short and to the point.
I was able to easily hit from 200 yrds., 800 yrds (760 meters?), and everything in between! I was stunned by the consistency and straight shootability of this optic. Pictures and video will be made available as soon as I get back to Baton Rouge. It's all about the reticle. Hell, I let a 14 Yr old kid who only spoke broken english and had never previously handled a rifle (so said his father). That kid put 20 rnds at 650ish and 20 out to 800. He had a 80% hit rate goin on lol! Amazing stuff.
Will post more later. NordenPerformance.com .
Link Posted: 5/16/2012 1:09:14 PM EDT
I've been watching this scope for a couple of months, waiting to hear from other people and their views-everything so far for the 1-6X appears to be GTG. The guy who developed it has a forum in the industry section with very little traffic. Help out the fella and post this over there. He seems to be a good guy and could use the exposure.
Link Posted: 5/16/2012 1:22:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2012 1:30:08 PM EDT by semperserveranceSTA]
I will. That scope needs to be on a battlefield with your average Joe soldier. Draw an 800 meter circle around him and he will hit anything in that envelope with the correct ammo. No bullshit.
Link Posted: 5/16/2012 1:52:20 PM EDT
Thanks for the mini-review, sounds well worth a closer look.
Link Posted: 5/18/2012 11:40:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2012 8:04:49 PM EDT by semperserveranceSTA]
I've used several 1-4 and a couple of 1-6 in addition to serving with issued ACOGs and mini red dots. This is the best optic I've ever used for it's intended purpose. I also own a tr24G and wish I would have known more about the GRSC before I practically wasted my time and money.
Link Posted: 5/18/2012 1:21:50 PM EDT
You are not making my choice any easier as I try and decide between this and the SWFA 1-6.
Link Posted: 5/18/2012 6:03:21 PM EDT
The BDC with the "10 inches" ranging system allowed me to use an M4 out to 800 yrds without any difficulty whatsoever. Without that reticle I could not have done that.
Link Posted: 5/18/2012 7:18:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By C_S:
You are not making my choice any easier as I try and decide between this and the SWFA 1-6.


My same dilemma.
Link Posted: 5/19/2012 10:42:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2012 6:55:39 PM EDT by semperserveranceSTA]
I highly suggest you get the 1-6x Light Optics manufactured GRSC CRS ( Combat Rifle Scope ). I hear SOCOM is looking hard at it. If they get the government contract,say goodbye to the price it's now going for. Light Optics manufactures Trijicon's stuff. The man who came up with the idea, Ed Verdugo, really brought this thing to fruition on his own dime. As a former Special Forces guy he just wanted the best in the hands of our trigger pullers. He's not out to make his fortune like most other companies. Ed put his heart and his treasure into this knowing he wasn't going to profit big. He just gives a shit about the Grunt on the ground and he did something quite extraodinary about it. Reticle, Reticle, Reticle.
Link Posted: 5/21/2012 12:02:06 PM EDT
I've never stood behind any product I didnt think was worth it's salt. I gain nothing by writing range reports and giving credit where it's due.
Link Posted: 5/21/2012 12:16:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2012 12:56:16 PM EDT by RFutch]
Do you work for GRSC?
Link Posted: 5/21/2012 2:52:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2012 3:59:37 PM EDT by semperserveranceSTA]
No I was severely wounded in Fallujah Iraq (Phantom Fury). I go to drs appmnts, physical therapy and shoot. Also raise a family and help other injured vets when I can. That's my job. Dept. of Treasury pays me. I guess you could say I'm employed in the USMC Wounded Warrior Bn.
pbckt.com/pH.Ufpj6c
Link Posted: 5/21/2012 4:53:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2012 4:54:22 PM EDT by STX]

Originally Posted By semperserveranceSTA:
No I was severely wounded in Fallujah Iraq (Phantom Fury). I go to drs appmnts, physical therapy and shoot. Also raise a family and help other injured vets when I can. That's my job. Dept. of Treasury pays me. I guess you could say I'm employed in the USMC Wounded Warrior Bn.
pbckt.com/pH.Ufpj6c
http://pbckt.com/pH.Ufpj6c

Sound like a shill to me big guy! If that's really you you need to be holding a "FU Arock" sign to prove it.































































Just jazzing you man thanks for your service and after-the-fact service. Heal up quick.


Link Posted: 5/21/2012 5:02:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2012 5:06:50 PM EDT by Durka-Durka]
I'm new to the optics world and this looks pretty interesting. I was actually looking for a horseshoe reticle, but this one seems a little fat compared to others I've seen out there. Is that distracting at all? And the eye relief, is that 3.5"-4" work for you?
Link Posted: 5/21/2012 5:16:25 PM EDT
Your welcome. I tried to stay in but couldn't pass a med board after a year in the polytrauma unit in Tampa. So now I just comment on shit I wish I had while in those nice vacation spots.
Link Posted: 5/21/2012 5:20:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
I'm new to the optics world and this looks pretty interesting. I was actually looking for a horseshoe reticle, but this one seems a little fat compared to others I've seen out there. Is that distracting at all? And the eye relief, is that 3.5"-4" work for you?


Eye box is pretty forgiving. If you shoot NTCH get the extended eye relief Bobro. At 1x less tube effect than aimpoint. Horse shoe turns into a plus when you bracket a persons head in it.
Link Posted: 5/21/2012 5:44:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By semperserveranceSTA:
Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
I'm new to the optics world and this looks pretty interesting. I was actually looking for a horseshoe reticle, but this one seems a little fat compared to others I've seen out there. Is that distracting at all? And the eye relief, is that 3.5"-4" work for you?


Eye box is pretty forgiving. If you shoot NTCH get the extended eye relief Bobro. At 1x less tube effect than aimpoint. Horse shoe turns into a plus when you bracket a persons head in it.


At 1x it's just a like an aimpoint. I own one. When you start hitting targets from 5meters to 800 you will understand why I'm so impressed with the 1-6 CRS. YouTube it. When you get that hit out to 800-850 it is quite a rush. No other reticle can match this one. None that I've used or heard about. No Mils, no MOA, no conversions, no calculations, no turret adjustment. It's just bad ass scientific Kentucky windage. In the MC I had an AR10T and a DMR(EMR) - screw that shit. 5.56 ammo is a real beast these days BCs of .4 and greater will get the job done with the right reticle.
Link Posted: 5/21/2012 6:09:44 PM EDT
So why would I buy this scope over its competitors offerings. Its more expensive than some, does not offer matching turrets/ reticle, not combat proven, and it only has a two year warranty.

What am I paying all that money for? A whiz bang BDC reticle that only works for one load at one atmospheric condition? Am I missing something here?
Link Posted: 5/21/2012 6:46:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2012 6:49:56 PM EDT by semperserveranceSTA]
It has a proven 18' 308 zero. If anything goes wrong it will be in the first 2 yrs. I'm sure Nordenperformance would take of it's own. Whiz bang BDC? Yah it is whiz bang. Pay more for less, or more for alot more. This is as good as I've seen it. And used it. Not insulting your intelligence but yah you are missing something here.
Link Posted: 5/21/2012 7:02:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By semperserveranceSTA:
It has a proven 18' 308 zero.


Huh?

Originally Posted By semperserveranceSTA: If anything goes wrong it will be in the first 2 yrs. I'm sure Nordenperformance would take of it's own.


How do I know this? I am not dropping 1K+ on an optic without a guarantee. This is supposed to be a combat optic yet they won't stand behind it for more than 2 years. That doesn't seem odd to you?

Originally Posted By semperserveranceSTA:Whiz bang BDC? Yah it is whiz bang. Pay more for less, or more for alot more. This is as good as I've seen it. And used it. Not insulting your intelligence but yah you are missing something here.


You still have not answered my question. What makes it better. I am not trying to start a shit storm, I really want to know. I also think people who don't have a lot of experience with optics have a right to hear both sides of the "argument". (for lack of a better term)

At the end of the day its your money and you can spend it as you please. Optics are a very personal choice and whats right for me may not be right for you. I just think it is over-rated.

Link Posted: 5/21/2012 7:06:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2012 7:08:26 PM EDT by semperserveranceSTA]
Long day ... Sleepy time. Get back to you. Do some research, I did.
Link Posted: 5/21/2012 7:32:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By semperserveranceSTA:
Long day ... Sleepy time. Get back to you. Do some research, I did.


I've researched it. Its a 1-6 FFP made on Japan with good glass. It has mil adjustments and a illuminated stadiametric range finding bdc reticle. 2 year warranty. $1025.00
Link Posted: 5/21/2012 10:56:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2012 10:58:43 PM EDT by semperserveranceSTA]
18 in. 1/10 twist .308/7.62MMx51 sorry if I wasn't clear enough for you.
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 4:51:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RFutch:
Do you work for GRSC?


This sounds like an ad

Just me.
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 5:26:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2012 5:46:33 AM EDT by semperserveranceSTA]
Are you offering me a job Anyways are seriously saying a 1000 is alot for a 1-6x with the features it has. All I care about is how the damn thing makes an M4 or 16'bbl AR shoot. That's it.
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 6:28:08 AM EDT
Why would I buy this over a SWFA SS 1-6 that has matching turrets/mil based reticle, FFP, Illuminated, covered/ uncovered turrets, lifetime warranty, and can be bought for $800 right now. The SS scopes have also been proven in combat.

Or the Bushnell Elite Tactical that is a 1-6.5, Illuminated mil based reticle, FFP, lifetime warranty, and proven to be tough as nails. Not only that but they give you a 1 year guarantee if you dont like the scope send it back for a FULL REFUND.
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 9:58:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2012 10:23:16 AM EDT by semperserveranceSTA]
1.mil based reticles do fuc* all at CQB or 1x
2.Battle tested? Like an ACOG? What Battle?
3.Your bashing a 2 Yr. warranty and praising a 1 Yr.?
4.are you a professional ******g sniper? While your dicking around with mil. adjustments and making wild a** shots at looong ranges, hoping you see an impact (which you won't), unless your in the desert. Wouldn't it be nice to put one stadia dot on your target and KNOW where the shots going.
5.Best of luck seeing those fine crosshairs in broad daylight. Or maybe you'll just use that big ass circle to get your bearings.
6.stop being a troll on my post. If you wanna buy that shit I'm not stopping you.
7.only reason I started this post was to share my excitement in this optic and making 800 meter+ shots like it was nothing.
8.once you get whatever it is your after go to an UKD range and see how far out you hit consistently, and how long it takes to find your range. Please. Try it.
9.BlackHawk down is running on Cinemax
Edit: Sentence,paragraph,grammar, oh and uh spelling.
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 10:34:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By semperserveranceSTA:
1.mil based reticles do fuck all at CQB or 1x
2.Battle tested? Like an ACOG? What Battle?
3.Your bashing a 2 Yr. warranty and praising a 1 Yr.?
4.are you a professional ******g sniper? While your dicking around with mil. adjustments and making wild ass shots at looong ranges, hoping you see an impact (which you won't), unless your in the desert. Wouldn't it be nice to put one stadia dot on tour target and KNOW where the shots going.
5.Best of luck seeing those fine crosshairs in broad daylight. Or maybe you'll just use that big ass circle to get your bearings.
6.stop being a troll on my post. If you wanna buy that shit I'm not stopping you.
7.only reason I started this post was to share my excitement in this optic and making 800 meter+ shots like it was nothing.
8.once you get whatever it is your after go to an UKD range and see how far out you get consistently. Please. Try it.
9.BlackHawk down is running on Cinemax
Edit: Sentence,paragraph,grammar, oh and uh spelling.


I have to respond to this one.



1. WTF? A BDC reticle is usually good for ONE load (projectile + barrel) under a SPECIFIC atmosperic condition. Many folks would rather have something more flexible.
2. Which battles has the GRSC CRS 1-6x been tested and proven in?
3. Both the SWFA and Burris have LIFETIME warranties. The Burris ALSO offers a 1 year no questions asked Return & Full Refund policy.
4. I don't know about RFutch, but I served in the Marines for over a decade (1985 - 1996). No I was never a Sniper. I did train and deploy with our STA platoon a couple of times.
5. The SWFA reticle was designed with LOTS of input from real shooters over on the Snipers Hide. While the GRSC designed one is GREAT, the SWFA one isn't bad either.
6. Wow...
7. I'm glad you really like the GRSC CRS 1-6x scope. It is a great looking design that many are considering (myself included).
8. Consistancy with a BDC reticle scope that matches the bullet & rifle its mounted to will always be better than a none BDC one. But what if you are using a Different load, barrel length, or caliber?
9. I was over in Somolia for Operation Restore Hope. I hate that damn movie for more reasons than I can count.

Link Posted: 5/22/2012 10:43:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2012 11:13:26 AM EDT by semperserveranceSTA]
Works with 77 smks,75 Hornady BTHP, Barnes 70 TSX, of course 62 M855. Was designed for 14.5bbl, which we used my brothers M4, I used it on 16 bbl..
Works on 7.62x51 just readjust your initial zero. You can readjust your initial zero.
Bullets tend to curve.
I never said it was battle proven that was Hoot that said that earlier about his fan boy hyped up optics.
Semper and thanks for what you guys did. BTW the adjustments are in mils.
From what i know, to keep the optic from freaking short dot costs they had to out the warranty to just 2 yrs. Besides the more i researched who the designer was and the development of the CRS the more I wanted to give my money to them. Made by SF for SF. I like that. I'm sure 5th SFG will too.
pbckt.com/pH.NnHGmv
This is the TR24G it's replacing. Im putting it on my wife's AR
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 12:08:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By semperserveranceSTA:
1.mil based reticles do fuc* all at CQB or 1x Really? The SS reticle acts like a dounut on 1x and a crosshair on 6x. See FFP.
2.Battle tested? Like an ACOG? What Battle? Maybe you're not aware but there are mil contracts for SS 10x on 50 bmgs. Some have also been seen on M14s.
3.Your bashing a 2 Yr. warranty and praising a 1 Yr.? Not a 1 yr warranty. It has a lifetime warranty AND a 1 guarantee. Reading is fundamental.
4.are you a professional ******g sniper? While your dicking around with mil. adjustments and making wild a** shots at looong ranges, hoping you see an impact (which you won't), unless your in the desert. Wouldn't it be nice to put one stadia dot on your target and KNOW where the shots going. With a mil/mil scope you can dial or hold. Thats the beauty of it. Your turrets match your reticle.
5.Best of luck seeing those fine crosshairs in broad daylight. Or maybe you'll just use that big ass circle to get your bearings. Huh? Am I blind all of a sudden?
6.stop being a troll on my post. If you wanna buy that shit I'm not stopping you. Not trolling just asked a few questions about this scope and you are taking it personally like you have a vested interest in it. Thats what this forum is for you know. Technical discussions...
7.only reason I started this post was to share my excitement in this optic and making 800 meter+ shots like it was nothing. Its the indian not the arrow.
8.once you get whatever it is your after go to an UKD range and see how far out you hit consistently, and how long it takes to find your range. Please. Try it. What? How are you going to range with the GRSC reticle if there is no people to use in the reticle. A mil based reticle can range any object not just a persons head or shoulders.
9.BlackHawk down is running on Cinemax. Thanks for the tip.
Edit: Sentence,paragraph,grammar, oh and uh spelling.


Link Posted: 5/22/2012 12:15:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2012 12:15:36 PM EDT by RFutch]
Originally Posted By semperserveranceSTA:

I never said it was battle proven that was Hoot that said that earlier about his fan boy hyped up optics. Was it not built by a former SF soldier for current soldiers in combat? That would seem to suggest it needs to be combat tested to me. See above regarding my fanboy optics and there combat experience.

BTW the adjustments are in mils. They are but the reticle is not. That does me no good.

From what i know, to keep the optic from freaking short dot costs they had to out the warranty to just 2 yrs.


Link Posted: 5/22/2012 12:27:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2012 12:33:35 PM EDT by semperserveranceSTA]
It's called the 10 in. method. Everything in the reticle is 10 in. Thanks for schooling me bro. I took notes. Now please leave your negative ass comments somewhere else. I'm not going to nit pick shit with you all day. Im not selling this shit im just using it. Thanks for your input.
BTW get yourself familiar with the term "No impact. No idea."
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 12:39:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2012 12:42:24 PM EDT by GRSC]
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 12:49:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2012 1:18:14 PM EDT by RFutch]
Mr. Verdugo,

I am not trying to dog your scope just trying to have a discussion about the pros and cons. Earlier in this thread I stated optics have different requirement for different people. Its obviously a quality scope being made in Japan with the features it has. I just don't understand why the OP can't answer my questions about it.

After all, that is why we are all in here, to discuss optics.
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 12:52:25 PM EDT
Wow. Thanks. I need more "tact".
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 1:07:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RFutch:
Mr. Verdugo,

I am not trying to dog your scope just trying to have a discussion about the pros and cons. Earlier in this thread I stated optics have different requirement for different people. Its obviously a quality scope being made in Japan with the features it has. I just don't understand why the OP can answer my questions about it.

After all, that is why we are all in here, to discuss optics.


I came here wanting to share some very unique range experiences. Ranges I've never dreamed of hitting man size targets at DMR distances. You my friend, want to compare brand X to brand Z. Point takin. I described some characteristics of the CRS and you continually challenge anything constructive that I have said. Very Trollish.
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 1:18:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 1:21:56 PM EDT
Two thumbs up for Ed taking the high road.

Nice report on the scope BTW.
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 4:42:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HercMech:
Two thumbs up for Ed taking the high road.

Nice report on the scope BTW.

Ditto that.

OP, thanks for the review and feedback.....interesting stuff on an optic I had never heard of.

Ed, thanks for chiming in, I also hate to type, and as you can see from my join date to the left, I've suffered through much of that on this site.

Definitely looking in to your optics, thanks.
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 5:32:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By semperserveranceSTA:
Wow. Thanks. I need more "tact".


Your responses on an open technical forum are painting a negative image of this scope.
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 6:25:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2012 6:26:58 PM EDT by M4]

Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
Originally Posted By semperserveranceSTA:
Wow. Thanks. I need more "tact".


Your responses on an open technical forum are painting a negative image of this scope.

WTF are you talking about? He's reviewing an optic, not making and selling them. From what I can see, he's highly impressed with it, which isn't what most people would read as "negative" anything.
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 6:38:27 PM EDT
The optic does look interesting... but I gotta say the op sounds like he's making a commercial.
Link Posted: 5/22/2012 6:51:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By larrydouglaswhitaker:
The optic does look interesting... but I gotta say the op sounds like he's making a commercial.


What I am saying.

Very shill-y
Link Posted: 5/23/2012 3:34:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2012 3:37:55 PM EDT by GRSC]
Link Posted: 5/23/2012 7:13:08 PM EDT
Not sure I need to call. I understand how the scope works. What I was looking for is someone to explain why they think this scope has more advantages than something that is FFP Mil/Mil. IMO the SWFA SS has more advantages being able to dial or hold. The reticle and turrets match, there is no math to do, and being FFP(like your scope) you dont have to think about what power your on.

If someone could make an argument for the GRSC here on the forum we could all share and maybe learn something. But we are at two pages now in this thread and no one will sell me on this scope.
Link Posted: 5/23/2012 8:04:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RFutch:
Not sure I need to call. I understand how the scope works. What I was looking for is someone to explain why they think this scope has more advantages than something that is FFP Mil/Mil. IMO the SWFA SS has more advantages being able to dial or hold. The reticle and turrets match, there is no math to do, and being FFP(like your scope) you dont have to think about what power your on.

If someone could make an argument for the GRSC here on the forum we could all share and maybe learn something. But we are at two pages now in this thread and no one will sell me on this scope.

How much experience do you have with this optic?
Link Posted: 5/23/2012 8:14:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2012 8:15:05 PM EDT by M4]

Originally Posted By RFutch:
.......But we are at two pages now in this thread and no one will sell me on this scope.

I don't think "selling you" on this optic was ever the intention of this thread. As a matter of fact, I'm certain of that.

You've made your point, how about we get back to the actual intent of this thread, which was a review of an optic the OP really digs.

Think the tech forums would be better if every time someone posted a review of a product, everyone with a keyboard chimed in with the "Yeah....but brand X scope/rifle/pistol/holster/ammo....is better, and you need to sell me on the one in your review"? And then proceeded to ride each OP, to sell them on it? Post after post...after post? No, the forums wouldn't be better.....it would be fucking annoying.

See where this is going?
Link Posted: 5/23/2012 8:15:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2012 8:20:45 PM EDT by RFutch]
[snip] How much experience do you have with this optic? [snip]

None thats why I am asking.
Link Posted: 5/23/2012 8:19:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4:

Originally Posted By RFutch:
.......But we are at two pages now in this thread and no one will sell me on this scope.

I don't think "selling you" on this optic was ever the intention of this thread. As a matter of fact, I'm certain of that.

You've made your point, how about we get back to the actual intent of this thread, which was a review of an optic the OP really digs.

Think the tech forums would be better if every time someone posted a review of a product, everyone with a keyboard chimed in with the "Yeah....but brand X scope/rifle/pistol/holster/ammo....is better, and you need to sell me on the one in your review"? And then proceeded to ride each OP, to sell them on it? Post after post...after post? No, the forums wouldn't be better.....it would be fucking annoying.

See where this is going?




So everyone will just come here post reviews and leave. No one will discuss the pro's and con's of anything and we'll all just take the reviewer's word for it. Sounds like a great place to find out about what each product does and doesn't do.
Link Posted: 5/23/2012 8:24:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2012 8:32:12 PM EDT by semperserveranceSTA]
Originally Posted By RFutch:
[snip] How much experience do you have with this optic? [snip]

None thats why I am asking.

Your SWFA, that's what I was referring to. Seriously I've never used or heard of a precision 4x or 6x optic. It's trying to be something it's not. It is a nice scope compared to most.
Link Posted: 5/23/2012 8:30:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By semperserveranceSTA:
Originally Posted By RFutch:
[snip] How much experience do you have with this optic? [snip]

None thats why I am asking.

Your SWFA, that's what I was referring too?


I have not used that particular SS 1-6. I do own the 5-20 SS and I also own multiple FFP and Mil/Mil scopes. I am considering a 1-6 for one of my ARs. Right now the SS and the Bushnell look like the best options.
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