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Posted: 4/29/2004 7:12:27 PM EST
Ok, I'm wondering if I'm crazy or there's something I don't know. The past week, I've looked at a lot of red dot reflex type scopes. From the cheapie BSA up to C-mores, Nikons... Anyway, I've yet to get my grubby little hands on an Aimpoint, ACOG, or EoTech, but all of the dots/crosshairs/reticles look distorted. Are they supposed to look this way? Not a single crisp dot or line, all are fuzzy, squiggly looking patches. I wear contacts, so my vision is corrected. Is there something I'm missing?

Hopefully this weekend I can get my hands on one of the aforementioned to look through at the fun show.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 7:46:43 AM EST
I haven't looked at all red dots for sure, but not one that I've ever looked at has a perfect circle red dot, in fact, a lot of them look more like a cluster of dots together. Maybe it's my eyes.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 10:20:32 AM EST
were you inside or out? many of the ones I've seen tend to look kinda funky indoors, but in any kind of sunlight, they clean up very nicely. Also, I think having any degree of astimatism/correction in your glasses contributes to this.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 3:05:46 PM EST
Fenian is correct. Even with contacts in my Aimpoint looks a little blurry/fuzzy. I have slight astigmatism. My shooting buddy says it looks crisp as hell though.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 3:20:56 PM EST
My understanding is that the smaller MOA dots are masked causing this burst look. I got to take a look through a 10MOA CompML the other day and the dot was a nice round dot. Again my understanding is the M2 model does not have the masking and as such is a good dot. Somebody with an M2 chime in here.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 3:43:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2004 4:41:36 PM EST by Troy]
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 3:49:47 PM EST
One of the things that I learned quickly while sighting in some red dots is that having the Brightness setting too high for your environment ALWAYS gives you a fuzzy reticle...

or maybe its just me
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 4:06:44 PM EST
Sydney, it ain't just you.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 5:46:32 PM EST
Yeah, I've looked through them all in the daylight. And they look pretty shoddy. I couldn't even call them a dot. No consistency, or regularity to them at all. From 4 MOA on up to 10 and playing with all intensity settings. They were pretty bad. My eyesight isn't too bad, only a -.75 in each eye, but I do have an astigmatism.

I looked through a few of them today with a pair of shooting glasses, and it seemed to help a little. But nothing I'd call acceptable. Hopefully I'll be able to check out an aimpoint or eotech at the fun show this weekend. If not does this mean I'm better off with regular wire type scope? What do folks think of IOR scopes?

Link Posted: 4/30/2004 8:45:49 PM EST
I see three problems.

1. You have astigmatism. If the dot is not a dot, you should probably get your perscription updated.

2. You were probably focusing on the dot instead of a target (wich is out beyond the dot in space). Try looking through a dot scope and focusing on somthing that is 15-40 yards away, not the dot itself.

3. As mentioned above, the reticle might have been set too high for the environment.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 10:35:47 PM EST
Contacts in general do NOT correct astigmatism, which is what's causing you the problem. Contacts are not thick enough though some are thicker than others. Normal eyeglasses WILL correct astigmatism, take a look through your contacts then through your glasses and check out the difference.
Link Posted: 5/1/2004 12:46:43 PM EST
Thanks Guys,

AK_Mike, you seem to have hit the nail on the head. My dog 'took care of' my glasses, a couple weeks ago, so I hadn't tried them. Holding whats left of the frame and lenses up to my eye made a world of difference in looking at my buddys red dot. So they really DO look like dots. Ohhhh! My prescription is up to date.

But, since I generally wear contacts, and not glasses it looks like I'll be looking for something other than a dot. ACOG's don't seem to be affected by this neither do the IOR's. I checked out both at the fun show in Raleigh today. There were a few of each but the dealers wanted the usual "gun show tax" and gave me the "don't tell Trijicon I'm selling these for only $$$... I'm not allowed."
Link Posted: 5/1/2004 12:51:44 PM EST
By the way, I looked at an EOtech at the show... And without my glasses, it was just as bad as anything else. Definitely didn't look like the cool pictures on the website. Stupid blindness.
Link Posted: 5/1/2004 7:28:23 PM EST
Both eyes open!
Link Posted: 5/1/2004 8:00:04 PM EST
I sold my aimpoint because of this issue. The Eotech is worse for me. I seem to do better with iron sites but I might save up for a ACOG or better yet for Lasik surgery.

Link Posted: 5/1/2004 8:47:28 PM EST
Sorry, but 20/15 and 20/20 here, Aimpoint M2, and the dot is indeed fuzzy if you ever wish to have a useable brightness in daylight conditions for fast target acquisition. In low-light or benchrest shooting where the level can be dialed down, yes, there is a dot that is round with clear boundries, other than that there is the starburst effect, and a blurred dot. Close in, the unit still allows for fast shooting, not a doubt there.

I never thought I would think I would own an optic that cost as much as my base rifle, but lately I am biginning to rethink that idea. More practice with the M2 is definitely needed before another $400 plus the profit of ditching and selling this M2 is considered though.

I never got to use an EOTech, but the Bushnell holosite's reticle looked almost "sketched" to me, instead of a continuous circle. Who knows, it may be more effective once mounted and fired.

Link Posted: 5/1/2004 9:20:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kisara:
Both eyes open!

Yeah, both eyes were open. It didn't make the EOTech or any other seem any less fuzzy. The EOTech looked like a Chrismas wreath with a smudge in the middle. Thus far the only thing that REALLY clears up the dots is to take out the contacts and look through the glasses.

Such is life, some things work for some. They don't work for others. Don't take it as a jeer against any beloved optics. I'm sure they work great for you. But, it sounds like some of us are not so lucky.
Link Posted: 5/1/2004 11:32:58 PM EST
I learned the hard way myself. I wear contacts and the astigmatism is really causing me angst when using my high speed optics. I'm switching to Accuview lenses when they get my magnification range in stock as they are supposed to be thicker and help a little with the astigmatism. Unfortunately, one can have 20/20 or better and still have astigmatism which must be corrected by eyeglasses normally. I don't want to have to wear glasses again just to use my red dots, but luckily the effect is not so bad in my case.
Link Posted: 5/2/2004 4:16:16 AM EST
I have to think it would be hard to hit a target if you're looking that hard at the dot.

mark mcj
Link Posted: 5/2/2004 1:51:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/2/2004 1:54:48 PM EST by brewsky101]
You'll love the Accuviews. Mine were better than my glasses. I had to give them up however, because my eyes are too dry for contacts (thanks a lot for the bad genes dad).

Edited to add: I don't normaly wear glasses either. I passed the eye test without correction when I renewed my drivers liscence. I use eye correction for scouting/hunting/shooting only.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 12:09:23 AM EST
I have astigmatism and use prescribed eyeglasses, but after passing 40 years reddots have started to look less round and more like stars. I just sold a nearly new Holosight because it did not fit to my eyes, and the guy who bought it said it's perfect. So the problem was my eyes, not the Holosight, or maybe it was just bad human-technology-fit in individual level. Maybe reddot is not the best interface for all eyes, even if it fits well for many or most.

However, since I do not have problems with normal riflescopes, I will stick with scopes, and try the 1.25-4x24 Accupoint. Has anyone tried Accupoint at 1.25x against reddots in CQB distances?

Link Posted: 5/6/2004 6:30:52 AM EST
I, too, am a contact lens wearer with a slight astigmatism. Most red dots to me appear a bit oblong with a bit of a "starburst" effect , but not enough to be a real problem. I've looked through everything from cheap BSAs to Aimpoints, and my OKO seems to present the "roundest" dot. The EOTech reticle, on the other hand, appears very "pixelated". Must have something to do with my eyes and the holographic projection, since other multi-reticle sights (Bushnell, ATN, Kobra, etc) appear to have very clean & sharp crosshair/dot/chevrons. Not knocking the EOTech, just saying it won't work for my eyes...

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