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Posted: 10/25/2013 7:31:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 9:32:36 PM EST by TrooperKbC]
This does it! I've had problems with almost every Remington product I've ever tried. It's always low quality and high priced. I tried to install a DPMS bolt catch with their roll pin and the pin was so tight it got stuck! I've never had this problem with any of my other builds. This was my first time [and last] using any lower parts from DPMS. I've marred by brand new consecutively serial numbered lower, even though it was covered with tape, due to how hard I was slamming on the hammer. Now I can't get the half-driven pin back out and have bent my roll pin punch trying! Anyone ever experience this problem? I should have known better than to use anything other than what I've used successfully so many times, but I assumed DPMS was decent quality. F*ck DPMS and anything from any company owned by Freedom Group!

ETA: I meant to ask if anyone knows how to fix (get the roll pin out of) my lower.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 9:07:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 9:08:28 PM EST by Isenhelm]
You mean to hell with freedom gorup?
I read the title and thought it was going to be some hard right liberty group that was ready to fo LOL

Cant you pull the pin out with pliers or vice grips or something? pull straight and true
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 9:28:21 PM EST
You're right, I need to change the title. Either way doesn't sound correct. I'm not going to hell with or for them.

Nope. Can't budge it with a roll pin punch and hammer. Definitely can't move it just by steady hand pressure and pliers. Tried both.

Link Posted: 10/25/2013 9:31:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 9:33:36 PM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 9:35:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 9:39:22 PM EST by TrooperKbC]
Tried driving it out from the other side. That's when I bent my punch from hammering on it so hard. It won't budge.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 1:32:03 AM EST
Get a new roll pin and a #42 Aircraft Extension bit ($2.00 at hardware store), and drill out. Then you'll also know that the hole is drilled to proper size before you ruin another roll pin.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 1:36:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 1:37:47 AM EST by Sc0tt]
spray some wd/kroil/silicone/ETC in the hole, let it soak, THEN whack it out. make sure it's on a solid surface so the energy all goes into the pin, and not into you trying to hold the lower.

when installing the new one, pinch the leading end down a hair with pliers and LUBE IT BEFORE INSTALLING IT. I dip the end in aeroshell---just a tiny dab.

I also use vinyl wrapped vise grips. just squeeze it right in without damaging the end---piece of cake.


.........and what brand lower? you're blaming the roll pin which DPMS probably didn't even make. is it a DPMS lower also?
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 4:09:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 4:29:17 AM EST by Dr69er]
The DPMS AR-15 parts do tend to SUCK, while the LR-308 parts they are using pretty decent and seem to be of much higher
quality overall...I always use parts from Stag Arms, Spikes, BCM, Delton, and others for LPK's as the quality tends to be
much better than the DPMS AR-15 parts. I always grind/file a taper on one end the roll pins in a AR build before Installing
as It nearly always makes the Install very easy and problem free (chuck the roll pin in a electric drill/cordless drill and
grind or file a taper on one end of the roll pin as it is running...).

Not many choices left as far as getting that roll pin out...

A) Try using some needle nose pliers to pull it out...Try using Electrical tape,
(very difficult to do though w/o possibly scratching the lower even with tape).

B) Drilling out the roll pin (extended Aircraft bit, buy two or three as you can
use one as a punch to drive out the pin from the other end (C)...).

C) Try driving out the roll pin from the other side.

D) You may have to use a Dremel/Penetrating Oil/Heat to get it out (last resort).

Good Luck.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 5:19:32 AM EST
Why is it always the manufaturers fault when people fuck up their rifles??? WECSOG stikes again..
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 5:22:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 5:23:13 AM EST by tbougie1]
EDIT..uncontrolled pair!!!
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 6:30:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 6:51:29 AM EST by j3_]
I would use the correct 3/32" punch to drive it out from the other direction . It takes a specially made one to drive from the mag well end. I use one I bent an angle in the pin portion so the punch body clears the bumped out mag well but there are some out made just for the purpose.
Trying to drill out a hardened pin will not give you a result you hope for.
Using the wrong size punch will only jam it up worse.
Needle nose pliers are worthless for this use.
Grabbing the end with pliers and trying to tap it out seldom works but could be tried. Most likely will only mangle the end of the pin the and risk scratching the lower.

There are pins out that will not compress enough and there are lowers out with the holes closed up from anodizing. Problem could have been either or both.
I have a piece of 1/4" flat bar I drilled holes in for driving the pins through and compressing them once before I install them. I have two drilled in the bar for the trigger guard pin one is under sized slightly.
Tape is not much protection from scracthing something when driving a steel object against it. I use a dense piece of cardboard like the back off of some brands of note book binders. Taped to hold in place if needed
Good luck. I wonder if you could break off one of the nubs beating on it hard enough or long enough?
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 7:10:07 AM EST
Meh, DPMS did not manufacture that roll pin, some vague sourcing shop out there in wind did. And frankly I doubt that it is the roll pin, bolt catch, or lowers fault.

It's more likely things were not lined up and you weren't using a big enough hammer or hitting it hard enough or using too small of a punch.

Should only take 2-3 solid taps to get it through... The preening on the end of that roll pin speaks to a thousand hesitant "oh I don't want to break anything" love taps. This is a surefire way to bugger it up.

You should change the title of the thread to "User Error Stinks! Help me fix my lower!"

Anyways a bit of oil and possibly spending the night in the freezer, no more tapping on it with cheapo small punches, pull it out with pliers, verify the parts line up with no issue before reattempting with proper equipment and procedure.

Could also be the bolt catch not drilled true, the tolerance spec on those seems wonky sometimes, and you guessed it - DPMS didn't make those either. Some other vague shadowy sourcing company did.

And those vague shadowy sourcing companies? They make parts for ALL the manufacturers
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 10:47:26 AM EST
Its a roll pin.

Even if it is slightly over sized.....its a roll pin.

Get a lower receiver vise block and proper tools.

Again, its a roll pin.

Link Posted: 10/26/2013 11:29:03 AM EST
never had that issue
then again i try to use quality parts

prolly an issue w/ the bolt catch, not your lower.


try putting it in freezer, maybe
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 1:43:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 1:46:31 PM EST by schneebersnutzen]
Why would anyone on earth ever use a punch to get that pin in, in the first place? Tape the ends on some channel locks and 2 seconds later the pin is in with no marring, no scratching etc. Punches to remove those pins, channel locks to put em in. Save the punches for forward assists, castle nut staking, and gas block work. Nothing else on the ar would never need a punch assides from removal of pins.IMO this is the same kind of shit people do when they break a tab off the trigger guard. Sometimes channel locks/pliers are easier, quicker, and less opt to do damage.

Btw sucks on the receiver, but then again, taking time to verify a pin is rolled right, and making sure to not slip off the pin is key. Seems like you rushed the job, then started pounding it so hard you slipped and decided to tattoo your receiver. Patience is the key with guns, not brute force. Btw with the pic, it looks like you actually started opening up the roll pin while pounding it in, this making it even tighter with every hit. Flip over, get a solid hammer and a stainless punch, and probably a wack or two later it will be out. Just make sure you dont hit it so hard that you drive the punch pack into the other side marring the otherside with the punch taper.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 1:43:43 PM EST
As I read this, the term "operator error" keeps coming to mind. An old axiom... never force anything...would seem to fit here ..Back off, go get a drink ( not booze) and approach from a different angle.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 2:40:08 PM EST
If ya get it out send me your addy. I have a ton of bolt catch roll pins and ill drop one in the mail for ya
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 4:03:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tweeder79:
If ya get it out send me your addy. I have a ton of bolt catch roll pins and ill drop one in the mail for ya
View Quote


Why?? with his technique he will just fuck it up again and blame it on the pins you sent him..

Let me help...

Chamfer the leading edge of the pin
polish the pin
lubricate with Tetra grease..think about sticking something in a dry hole....use your imagination
Roll pin holder to start...I use a 2x2 patch to protect the upper.
Slave pin from the opposite side to ensure you will get through the latch
roll pin punch to ensure you don't fuck up the pin...

So easy a trained monkey could do it...
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 4:39:48 PM EST
Vice grips on a slide hammer?
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 5:30:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 5:39:41 PM EST by TrooperKbC]
While there was certainly some operator error, the pin is definitely out of spec. This isn't my first build. While I take fault for trying to force it instead of scrapping that pin and using another one, I shouldn't have to do that quality control check. That's what I pay the manufacturer to do.

I have a receiver vice block, roll pin punches, regular pin punches, roll pin starters/holders, a 4 oz hammer, Aeroshell 33MS, etc. I've installed many bolt catch pins before. I'm not sure why several of you guys seem to think there's no way it's a bad pin and I must be a retard. I noticed this one looked a bit off before starting. The gap where it should compress/roll was very narrow and broad-faced on both sides, it looked wider in diameter than another of my roll pins at hand from a full LPK I didn't want to take from, and the center hole was undersized compared to my others. The usual punch didn't fit as usual. So, yes. It was operator error to be so stupid and hasty to attempt using the junk pin, but like I said it's the manufacturer's responsibility to produce usable parts.

Some of you suggested using channel locks. That's a good method in most cases, but I've never tried it because my roll pin punch has always worked just fine in my several times doing this before. Maybe I'll try that next time, but it's too late for this one. Trust me; even channel locks wouldn't have been able to get this pin in.

You're right about the end getting flared. I think that's when the punch slipped. The pin was already stuck and not budging when that happened. The flare wasn't the cause of the pin getting stuck.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 5:38:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 5:42:43 PM EST by pikie1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrooperKbC:
You're right, I need to change the title. Either way doesn't sound correct. I'm not going to hell with or for them.

Nope. Can't budge it with a roll pin punch and hammer. Definitely can't move it just by steady hand pressure and pliers. Tried both.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd203/4r00p3r/IMG_1581_zps6e65cd16.jpg
View Quote



Roll pins aren't tapered. I grind a slight leading edge. As for it being HARD. They are made that way.
You want a soft one. Just heat it up over the stove till it's a dull Red. That should make it nice and soft.
Roll pins are made LARGER than the hole they go in for a reason. So they stay there. Improper size pin.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 6:23:28 PM EST
Roll pin - 1
Texan - 0

You had you doubts about the pin but used it anyway?
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 7:03:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 9:28:08 PM EST by TrooperKbC]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
Roll pin - 1
Texan - 0

You had you doubts about the pin but used it anyway?
View Quote


Yes. I'd been waiting a long time for this build since cash has been tight and parts have been out of stock. The excitement and impatience got the best of me. Lesson learned.

Now, if anyone has suggestions about fixing the problem...

So far I've seen freezer, WD-40, and drill. The other suggestions seemed to come without prior reading of the thread as they were already tried.

I'm aware you're supposed to use a different kind of punch when going from the front/magwell side. Brownell's sells a special one I may order if I don't have luck with something already laying around and WD-40.

I'm worried the freezer could make the metal brittle and lead to more problems, but I'm no metallurgist.

I may try drilling with an undersized bit just to thin out and hopefully weaken the pin enough to drive it out.

Any other ideas?
Finally got the damn thing out. Soaked with penetrating oil a few hours, found harder pin punch and heavier hammer, prayed and slammed it out. In the future, I'll always throw out or return suspect parts instead of trying to use them. More parts are on the way. Can barely wait to get them. May try channel lock method next time. Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 10:50:33 PM EST
glad you got it fixed up

i found i like needle nose pliers w/ tip wrapped w/ blue painters tape over the channel locks... but to each their own
either will work for you

hopefully the rest of your build is enjoyable
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 6:33:24 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrooperKbC:


Yes. I'd been waiting a long time for this build since cash has been tight and parts have been out of stock. The excitement and impatience got the best of me. Lesson learned.

Now, if anyone has suggestions about fixing the problem...

So far I've seen freezer, WD-40, and drill. The other suggestions seemed to come without prior reading of the thread as they were already tried.

I'm aware you're supposed to use a different kind of punch when going from the front/magwell side. Brownell's sells a special one I may order if I don't have luck with something already laying around and WD-40.

I'm worried the freezer could make the metal brittle and lead to more problems, but I'm no metallurgist.

I may try drilling with an undersized bit just to thin out and hopefully weaken the pin enough to drive it out.

Any other ideas?
Finally got the damn thing out. Soaked with penetrating oil a few hours, found harder pin punch and heavier hammer, prayed and slammed it out. In the future, I'll always throw out or return suspect parts instead of trying to use them. More parts are on the way. Can barely wait to get them. May try channel lock method next time. Thanks.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrooperKbC:
Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
Roll pin - 1
Texan - 0

You had you doubts about the pin but used it anyway?


Yes. I'd been waiting a long time for this build since cash has been tight and parts have been out of stock. The excitement and impatience got the best of me. Lesson learned.

Now, if anyone has suggestions about fixing the problem...

So far I've seen freezer, WD-40, and drill. The other suggestions seemed to come without prior reading of the thread as they were already tried.

I'm aware you're supposed to use a different kind of punch when going from the front/magwell side. Brownell's sells a special one I may order if I don't have luck with something already laying around and WD-40.

I'm worried the freezer could make the metal brittle and lead to more problems, but I'm no metallurgist.

I may try drilling with an undersized bit just to thin out and hopefully weaken the pin enough to drive it out.

Any other ideas?
Finally got the damn thing out. Soaked with penetrating oil a few hours, found harder pin punch and heavier hammer, prayed and slammed it out. In the future, I'll always throw out or return suspect parts instead of trying to use them. More parts are on the way. Can barely wait to get them. May try channel lock method next time. Thanks.





Well I'm glad you got it out anyway...Lesson learned, sometimes shit happens, and you just need do things in a specific order. Like I said in my post
earlier ( as well as others who mentioned it here), always avoid forcing something In/out, when it comes to Installing a roll pin/split pin you must:

A) Taper (file or grind) one end of the pin first...
B) Use some grease to get easy Insertion...
C) Use the correct tools for the job, like punches, mallets, fixtures, etc...whenever possible...
D) Try to protect your work piece by using some type heavy duty tape (I like using electrical tape)...

The above are just general recommendations, and the way I do things, and are not geared to put anyone down by using different methods, etc.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 3:54:46 PM EST
FYI it is possible to have crap pins also. Forgot to mention I had an issue with a dpms gas tube roll pin being mega out of spec. Ordered one from BCM and had 0 issue. BCM's was actually noticeably smaller. Guess dpms oversizes their crap to match with all their out of spec lowers haha.

Same ordeal with a delton gas tube that I had that's hole was way crooked causing major gas tube misallignment. Replaced with BCM and never had an issue. Lesson... even tiny miniscule parts are much better to source through a good company, than a company known to have qc issues.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:26:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 4:27:08 PM EST by hail2thevict0r]
I've never had any problems with DPMS parts. With that pin, I always soak it in oil before trying to punch it in - works like a charm every time.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:27:10 PM EST
Out of spec roll pin lol.

There is a slit so it can accommodate most holes in its range.

I would go operater error or tight hole on the lower
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 12:45:58 AM EST
I wouldn't bank on a tight hole in the lower, otherwise there would be a shit-ton of posts on here about the same thing. I doubt the manufacturer changed their tooling to undersize one hole on one lower.

i'm going with simple user error. every one of those I have put in was tight. that's the way it's meant to be.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 1:08:48 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tbougie1:
Why is it always the manufaturers fault when people fuck up their rifles??? WECSOG stikes again..
View Quote

Link Posted: 10/28/2013 12:07:17 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By durabo:

And those vague shadowy sourcing companies? They make parts for ALL the manufacturers
View Quote



++1
not well understood point...there are very few companies that actually have the mills or forges to make theor pwn products.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:00:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 3:01:19 PM EST by tbougie1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fundygundy:



++1
not well understood point...there are very few companies that actually have the mills or forges to make theor pwn products.
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Originally Posted By fundygundy:
Originally Posted By durabo:

And those vague shadowy sourcing companies? They make parts for ALL the manufacturers



++1
not well understood point...there are very few companies that actually have the mills or forges to make theor pwn products.



Their not milling or forging pin and springs.....these are sourced from other manufacturers..think about it..The big 3 doesn't build most their parts..
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:11:53 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tbougie1:



Their not milling or forging pin and springs.....these are sourced from other manufacturers..think about it..The big 3 doesn't build most their parts..
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tbougie1:
Originally Posted By fundygundy:
Originally Posted By durabo:

And those vague shadowy sourcing companies? They make parts for ALL the manufacturers



++1
not well understood point...there are very few companies that actually have the mills or forges to make theor pwn products.



Their not milling or forging pin and springs.....these are sourced from other manufacturers..think about it..The big 3 doesn't build most their parts..



you are so right and that is precisely the point i tried to make, albeit poorly, ie.- that many people on this site debate parts which are made by the same source.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:24:41 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tbougie1:



Their not milling or forging pin and springs.....these are sourced from other manufacturers..think about it..The big 3 doesn't build most their parts..
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tbougie1:
Originally Posted By fundygundy:
Originally Posted By durabo:

And those vague shadowy sourcing companies? They make parts for ALL the manufacturers



++1
not well understood point...there are very few companies that actually have the mills or forges to make theor pwn products.



Their not milling or forging pin and springs.....these are sourced from other manufacturers..think about it..The big 3 doesn't build most their parts..


Maybe not springs or pins but Colt pretty much manufactures everything under one roof.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:53:43 AM EST
The freezer won't help because aluminum expands and contracts more than steel. The oven would probably work better but I don't know how much. Get yourself a good punch and drive it out making sure your on the pin and not the catch or lug. When installing a new one taper the end a little, lube it up. And press it in with rubber jawed tongue and groove pliers. Works like a champ. It only takes one hand to squeeze the pliers and the other hand can hold the bolt catch to make sure it is lined up. I don't even use rubber jaws, just some cardboard.
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