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Posted: 5/20/2005 5:59:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2005 5:39:58 AM EDT by mongo001]
Luckily I didn't shoot it. Just a friendly warning.
















Link Posted: 5/20/2005 6:16:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 6:19:34 PM EDT by CJan_NH]
Thanks for the heads-up Mongo. Personally I don't shoot Wolf anymore but I'll file your post away in my walnut sized brain in case I ever buy some again in the future

Lets say for a minute that you didn't notice a problem and tried to shoot that defective round. Assuming that you could get it to chamber, could you speculate (worst case) about what would happen when it touched off?

I'm wondering if a split neck is as potentially catastrophic as a case failure near the rim. Fortunately I've never had either happen to me, so I'm curious.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 6:19:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
I'm wondering if a split neck is as potentially catastrophic as a case failure near the rim. Fortunately I've never had either happen to me, so I'm curious.



I'm not sure, but I am sure glad I didn't find out. Luckily, this round misfed on my rifle length Dissy build and I saw this when I manually ejected this round. I was furious with myself for not seeing it in the initial mag load and I will be more diligent in the future with all ammo.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 6:22:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 6:22:19 PM EDT by CJan_NH]

Originally Posted By mongo001:

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
I'm wondering if a split neck is as potentially catastrophic as a case failure near the rim. Fortunately I've never had either happen to me, so I'm curious.



I'm not sure, but I am sure glad I didn't find out. Luckily, this round misfed on my rifle length Dissy build and I saw this when I manually ejected this round. I was furious with myself for not seeing it in the initial mag load and I will be more diligent in the future with all ammo.


Well, I'm glad you didn't find out too

My seven year old daughter is a great ammo inspector. She even knows how to use my Mitutoyo caliper
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 6:23:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
My seven year old daughter is a great ammo inspector. She even knows how to use my Mitutoyo caliper



Where does one get one of these seven year olds???? Guess I'll have to ask the wife.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 6:47:31 PM EDT
Thanks for the heads-up, Mongo. I'll have to remember to inspect mine a little closer from now on.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 6:53:32 PM EDT
That's not a rumor. Now if your brother's dog's former owner's best friends brother-in-law said he thinks he remembered seeing Wolf with a split case neck THAT would be a rumor.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 7:02:46 PM EDT
I found a severed human finger in a box of 62 grain Wolf .223..

...maybe it was a round of Wolf in a cup of Wendy's chili. I can't seem to recall for sure.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 7:06:58 PM EDT
Last week when I went to the range I notice one of my cases had a split neck. Of course this was after I shot it. I don't know if it was split before I shot it or not but I don't believe it should have been split even after I shot it. Who knows, anyone? I also have a crooked bullet from Wolf. I guess it could happen though. They do say if your not 100% happy with your Wolf ammo that they will buy the rest back from you.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 7:24:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mongo001:

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
My seven year old daughter is a great ammo inspector. She even knows how to use my Mitutoyo caliper



Where does one get one of these seven year olds???? Guess I'll have to ask the wife.


My Father used to say that the best thing about kids was making them.

As you might have guessed, there was all kinds of love and kindness in the CJan household
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 7:28:53 PM EDT
I just see what seem to be a bunch of rounds seated to different lenghts, is that what your talking about????
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 7:35:33 PM EDT
Any ammo manufacturer can let the odd round slip past quality control.

I've had a squib round in Wichester white box.

A round of personal defense ammo from Remington with the bullet smashed down crooked ,tearing the wall of the caseing.

Blazer aluminum casing split open and did bad things to the cylinder wall of a revolver.

Not defending Wolf. Only use it in commie rifles.

I try to look every round over while I load mags and such. Get distracted myself, so something may slip by, but it never hurts to look.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 7:39:04 PM EDT
I've never seen a case like that in several thousand rounds of wolf poly, though once I found a round with a primer seated upside down. I inspect all my ammo, and I have to say that 1 bad round in more than 15 cases ain't a bad ratio! For $100 a case, you've got to expect a bad one will slip by every now and again; check your ammo, fellas!

Oh, and so this doesn't turn into a 'wolf is shit' thread, I would remind people of the famous XM193 pretzel debacle discussed here: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=218579&page=1

Bad rounds happen in every ammo going, it's a percentages game.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 7:48:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 8:07:33 PM EDT by JE3146]

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Apparently spreading "rumors" like this is a bad thing to do.



Edited.. bit of confusion
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 7:56:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JE3146:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Apparently spreading "rumors" like this is a bad thing to do.



Give me a break...

All I said was to make sure it wasn't the rifle... and I had no way of telling with the blurry photo that it was caused by machinery.. all I had to base your claim off of was your vague description. I don't see how that was necessary.



OOOPS. Should have edited that out. I did that after your initial response.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 9:31:14 PM EDT
I don't know how it would have affected an AR, but when I was picking up spent 7.62x39 after a day at the range with a norinco SKS, I found one split, didn't even notice it when I fired it. Also I've had plenty of split cases and necks out of some old 8mm, again I didn't notice any difference in it firing until I picked up the brass, then again it was a bolt action...

Click for Pic
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 4:35:05 AM EDT
hmmmmmmm
something to watch for
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 6:47:26 AM EDT
A split case neck will cause no damage to either the shooter or weapon as the case body creates the gas seal. To quote the Speer reloading manual " Splits of any kind, anywhere, are cause for discarding a case unless the case is one of those rare hard to replace calibers. In this situation, small splits in the neck may be tolerated if the reloader is aware that the accuracy will be poor, and the chamber of the gun will be damaged in time" I read this to mean an occasionl split neck is no need for concern.

Chief
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 7:00:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ChiefEngineer:
A split case neck will cause no damage to either the shooter or weapon as the case body creates the gas seal. To quote the Speer reloading manual " Splits of any kind, anywhere, are cause for discarding a case unless the case is one of those rare hard to replace calibers. In this situation, small splits in the neck may be tolerated if the reloader is aware that the accuracy will be poor, and the chamber of the gun will be damaged in time" I read this to mean an occasionl split neck is no need for concern.

Chief



That's some relief to me. I had pictures of KABOOM, much like some I've seen before.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 8:17:12 AM EDT
Thanks for the heads up.

Just a friendly reminder to check ammunition before loading them into magazines.
I do the same for Q3131A and XM193.

-Jim
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 9:55:56 AM EDT
Atleast you didn't find any pretzles.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 12:41:48 PM EDT
How did you determine that this damage was present before you tried shooting it? The reason I ask is that I have misfed Q3131A after failing to seat the magazine all the way, resulting in almost identical damage to the case - abrasion to the neck, dent to the shoulder, though no cracking.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 1:27:11 PM EDT
How many bad rounds did you find? Where there just those 7 out of a case (1000rnds) or one box (20rnds).
7 bad rounds is still bad news.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 1:43:15 PM EDT
Looks to me like 7 pics of the same round, taken from different angles. I think if he had seven different rounds he probably take one picture with all seven of them in it.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 2:03:36 PM EDT
It's just one round, but I tried to get multiple angles and lighting conditions so that everybody could clearly see what was there. My first pic was blurry and drew some scepticism from someone as to whether my rifle did that or did it come that way. I wanted to remove all doubt that my rifle did that.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 2:05:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2005 2:07:26 PM EDT by mongo001]

Originally Posted By ClarenceDammit:
How did you determine that this damage was present before you tried shooting it? The reason I ask is that I have misfed Q3131A after failing to seat the magazine all the way, resulting in almost identical damage to the case - abrasion to the neck, dent to the shoulder, though no cracking.



Do you see any of the coating scraped off?? Don't you think that if my rifle had somehow done this, you'd see at least some of the coating worn off. Wolff ammo has a coating that would have been removed if my rifle had done that. The coating is not impacted in any way. You need to see the round in person to actually see it. I can't take any better pics than that. When you see the crack, it is blatently obvious that this is a factory defect.


I'm just throwing a friendly warning out there. I cannot believe the scepticism I am getting on this.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 2:49:25 PM EDT
I don't think anyone is trying to say you're wrong, just that people want to make sure they know the causation.

And I posted this from a PDA, how cool is that?
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 6:10:47 PM EDT
Better picture for you mongo. Enhanced, resized, cropped, and sharpened. Also rotated to fit on most resolutions. Hope this helps display it better.



Looks to be finish removed, but it still looks more like a factory defect.

My guess is it was half and half. Prolly was cracked a bit, then the neck got caught on the feed lips. Steel cases are brittle and weak. Wouldn't surprise me the slightest if the crack spread because of it. Regardless, though, it still looks to be a bad case.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 6:20:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2005 6:27:27 PM EDT by overdriv]

Originally Posted By AZMAN-1:
I just see what seem to be a bunch of rounds seated to different lenghts, is that what your talking about????



Click on each photo to see it enlarged
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 6:41:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2005 6:52:43 PM EDT by mongo001]

Originally Posted By JE3146:
Better picture for you mongo. Enhanced, resized, cropped, and sharpened. Also rotated to fit on most resolutions. Hope this helps display it better.

oregonstate.edu/~edgarj/WOLF.jpg

Looks to be finish removed, but it still looks more like a factory defect.

My guess is it was half and half. Prolly was cracked a bit, then the neck got caught on the feed lips. Steel cases are brittle and weak. Wouldn't surprise me the slightest if the crack spread because of it. Regardless, though, it still looks to be a bad case.



Good guess, but the round never saw the chamber or the feed ramps. The bolt pinched it in the magazine, as it didn't have enough momentum to completely clear the round. I racked and locked the bolt back and dropped the round out of the ejection port. I had to drop the mag to pop the bullet out of the mag, as it was sticking out some. Only the nose of the bullet was anywhere near the ramps or chamber. Out of 28rds, I had three FTF the exact same way. I had countless others where the bolt never came back far enough to even move the rounds out of the magazine. About half were able to cycle the bolt properly.

And, if you look carefully, the mouth of the case is belled out all the way around the bullet. This case is FUBAR.

Thanks for the pic enhancement, though.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 5:27:45 PM EDT
Hey! Mong, don't let the skeptiks get to ya. YOU know what the hell happened. Hell's Fire--I was shooting a "leg" match at Camp Perry one year and they issued us the real-good match 7.62. Busted open a sealed 20 round box, and, I SWEAR, a 168gr bullet was seated upside down--back asswards! I gave it to the Rangemaster. I tell this to people, and they say: "Uh, yeah. Lake City (in hushed reverent tones) could never-ever do that.
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