My money is down... Can't wait!

Same here, pre-ordered back in late March.

Their product release seems to be going as well as the MDR release.

Yep.  Both companiez pushing back release dates constantly.  What's the echo at nowadays? 2nd Quarter of 2017?

 
Pre-orders begin shipping on 11/01 & that was a definite ship date as per the Fostech rep in the vid. QA issues have been squared away.

I can't wait to get this one. Sounds like they have the ATF letter for the model now and I'm glad they are sending it out with each trigger

Yes it is and stupidly I am in for both currently lol

Is the selector lever any different than an M16 lever?


 

 
You don't have to use theirs..... the Fostech rep pointed out that it's a very easy to mod a FA BCG if you want to run your own. No idea regarding the selector lever, hoping it's not proprietary as I would prefer to run the typical.... but I'll get over it if it is.

Eh, they said if you use a standard M16 bolt carrier, it won't work (5:08)


I was hoping to use it on a HK upper. I guess I'll just stick to an SSA.




 


So...yay for propriety

 
If you really need me to watch it again myself & pinpoint the time marker for you I will. When asked about piston uppers he explained how easy it is to modify a carrier.

My hope is the selector shaft ends will fit BAD levers... That is my hope

still have my preorder in since feburary

 

 
Interesting. He notes at around 5:25 that they did that to separate the ECHO from a machine gun. So, if you drop the ECHO carrier in an actual M4 or M16, it wouldn't work in FA.






 

The rep from FosTech misspoke at about 9:13. He said with all the other systems out there like the ECHO, it's a 50/50 chance that you will get a release on fire after a mag change, but with theirs it will always be on pull. The new BFSiii, which is actually available, does that as well. That was one of the major changes from the Gen2.

If you have to use a modified carrier or modify your own,  how will it work with a 9mm and others... I'm just not seeing it.

All in all, that was a great video. Thanks for sharing OP.


It answered a lot of questions that many of us have had.




I pre-ordered in April, so I hope it ships before it gets too cold here in northern Ohio.




One question I still have is, are they using Mr. Hawbaker's ATF letter, or did they get a new one?










 

 
The video notes that it's all rifle dependent, due to all the different designs being used. And, they won't tell you how to modify it, to cover their own butts (which is smart).


I think what we're going to see is that the BFSiii will be compatible with more systems, but may still require some tuning in some rifles (where a buffer spring swap should help get it near 100% during mag dumps). Where as the ECHO will be "more reliable" in rifles using their DI carrier, which will limit the platforms it can be used in.


Either way, this is all good for us. As these companies continue to improve these systems, we get better and better triggers.

Guess we'll have to wait and see.

 
I have a hard time believing they'd do this video with Mr. Strange and not hold to that date.


I for one am praying they do start shipping, and that I get the one I ordered before December.

 

I've got an SBR that will get this trigger as soon as it ships.  Should be fun, hopefully I'll have time to make another video to go with my BFS gen 2 videos.

Yea... I'm going to need one of those.

I'm thinking we are going to have the grind the rear of the carrier a little but he also said that in some AR9's no mods are needed. It will have to be tested

I'm assuming they have the letter for the new design but hell at lest they are going to release an ATF letter with the product. We will not know for sure which letter until they ship. As the Adkins accelerator showed use you need to have the new design approved by the ATF even if you just change it a little. I think it would be a mistake to just include the Hawbaker letter and say it all good.

 
I don't know. From what Franklin noted in my Gen3 thread, BATFE has never approved that extra sear trip...


Oh well, I don't care either way. I just want to get my hands on one.

Yeah this is good news. They really needed to keep people better appraised of delays and time lines having taken so much preorder money on earlier timetables. But if I get one before HRC bans them then I will be happy enough

I just noticed they're using Fostech's version of the Mag Tactical magnesium lower.

I wonder how much those are going to be priced at?

I have no idea nor am I affiliated with Fostech. I preordered back in March & simply keep an eye out for updates.

Remember the FA BFSiii comes with the recommended stronger buffer spring included.

 
This is true, however I don't believe they recommend you run the stronger spring; they are just including it in case you need it. Some rifles, especially those which have strong gas systems, can benefit from the stronger spring. But, not all will need it.


They will be releasing a buffer spring fit for the BFS at some point, which will include three springs. From my understanding, it will be a lighter spring, and two stronger springs (when compared to a stock carbine buffer spring). The idea is to find which spring works best in your particular rifle, to get you as close to 100% function during mag dumps as possible. I have no idea what the pricing will be on that kit, but I'm thankful they're going to offer it.

That's a good question and I would think they could not ship to WA state because of it.  Fostech should address it.

 
Wasn't someone complaining in one of the BFS threads that Franklin would not ship to WA??? FA responded saying it was due to their state's definition of a MG.


Hopefully FosTech will also restrict sales to states with odd definitions...

That's correct, Frankford won't ship to WA.  I expect Fostech to have similar state based sales restrictions.

 
Agree 100%.

Still annoyed about it requiring a different carrier. I'm debating whether to keep my preorder since I plan on using this mostly on a 22lr.

 
The BFSiii seems to work well with .22LR. I haven't tested mine yet, but another member's is running awesome with .22LR, .45ACP, etc.

My BFS gen 2 worked well after I filed down my CMMG kit a bit. I'll probably cancel my preorder and see how these work before buying one. I really don't feel like cutting my conversions anymore.

I agree. I wish all states did not even define MGs. Some do not

In for the MDR as well, waiting to see how the production Echo works out.

 

Based on what I've seen, if you have a M16 type 22 carrier, you can grind a bevel on the carrier and it should work.

My older Spike's .22 upper uses a separate, bent sheet metal, auto-trip attached to the bottom of the bolt in order to activate the auto-sear on my M16. I had to grind down the engagement surface to correctly time it in full-auto. When I had the Fostech guys take their prototype apart and show me the inner workings at the NRA show, they discussed how to modify bolt carriers to work with their Echo trigger, and said that the .22 auto-trip bolt setup should be able to be made compatible.

They lost me at "proprietary carrier". No thanks. I had an order in for quite a awhile, and cancelled it prior to this info (and glad I did).
4-5 months for "tolerance issues" and "coating issues" is complete BS. Sorry, but that's not the real story here. The real story is they thought they could release their product with a pre-existing approval, but then learned that that did not apply to their changes... so they had to scramble and make custom BCG's (proprietary) to appease the BATFE. The BCG is the delay, not the BS they tell you.
Despite no getting a straight up answer from them, I'm still glad I cancelled. I have zero interest in a product the requires me to install a non mil spec part as serious as a BCG to make it work (nor will I do business with a company that cannot be honest with it's customers).
Looks like an awesome system, but want no part of it due to the above said reasons. .

Fostech, try this (honestly for once): "We took preorder money for a product that wasn't approved yet. It was denied , due to the use of an auto type sear, so we now have to develop/produce/supply a proprietary BCG to go with each kit. Sorry for the delay". That would be so much more refreshing than the line of BS they continue to feed people.

Finally! Somebody who is brave enough to post the truth. I am certain ALL your statements are true, except the part about the carrier. I address that later in this post.  Franklin Armory has been exemplary and transparent about everything involved with their Binary Trigger. Fostech has been 180 degree opposite. I can not print that Fostech are liars. That could be considered slander. So, I will NOT post that about them. Readers, make up your own minds.

I am still not 100% certain that Fosteh has received FINAL approval from the ATF about the sear trip.
Notice that is it November third and NO shipping!..... just the sound of crickets coming from Fostech. So much for another broken promise ("Nov 1 shipping date at the LATEST")

Also, I am not saying this is a bad trigger. I am urging everyone to pay NO attention to the proprietary carrier. That is such a non issue. Any full auto carrier with similar metal back there for ar15's 9mm, .22 and almost ALL piston guns can be modified with a  DREMEL in 10 minutes to work with the Fostech sear trip.
This is not conjecture. Fostech themselves say this is possible, but for legal reason recommend that you PAY them to modify your carrier for you. ADCO or or any good machine shop can do this so simply. There will soon be standard low rates at many gun smiths to do what the mechanically disabled can not do for themselves.

I do not know if this can be any better than the Gen 3 Franklin trigger, however. The Franklin seems to be running 100% in 99% of the owners' guns now. The semi auto pull is  HUGELY improved to be just dandy at 4.5lbs with a short reset. I will be interested to see how the Fostech Semi function works. After 500 rounds or so, these triggers will live mostly on SEMI auto except BRIEF periods in Echo/BInary. Or, best yet, shooting ONLY controlled pairs as if your gun had a two round burst function.

You guys better be buying ammo in 5000 round lots if you want to spend a lot of time doing mag dumps.
I can see controlled pairs taking up no more ammo than normal during a practice session. I always do double taps anyways! Now, double taps will just be even closer on target!

What the hell is the issue with a proprietary carrier??

This entire FCG is proprietary. Those of us who want a weapon that can send 2 quick rounds down range in a reliable manner are going to configure it just for this capability.
I don't care if it needs a proprietary bolt carrier or a matching purse.

I just want a decent trigger pull and complete confidence in function.

I've been waiting since 1986 for this unit.
Shut up and take my money!

G.

Meh.

I don't like vaporware.

I don't like preorders.

But I damn sure would love to have *any* trigger that fully solved for the hammer follow issue. I don't particularly care about the binary or echo functionality.

If Fostech would market a "Safer Semi Auto" fire control group, without the echo, I'd be a buyer in a heartbeat.