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Posted: 8/12/2015 6:38:26 PM EDT
I've always had the impression that foreign SS109 loads were more accurate than the US M855 version.  I finally decided to test this out to see if it held true (for my rifle).  





The first test will be with ADI F1, GGG (Lithuanian) and IMI M855 (2009)





I will be using Molon's format (for the most part) with 10 round groups and no called fliers
The Gun





Steyr AUG-A1


20" barrel; 1:9 twist


1.5x optic


front sandbag rest






Control Load





ADI 69gr SMK






ADI F1





The Groups:


2.124" ES/0.776" mean radius


2.714" ES/0.764" mean radius


2.843" ES/0.679" mean radius


--------


Avg Group ES: 2.560"


Avg Mean Radius: 0.740"
Best group (MR):






GGG (Lithuania)





The Groups:


2.607" ES/0.703" Mean Radius (I absolutely flubbed 2 shots that would have halved the group)


1.881" ES/0.758" Mean Radius


2.277" ES/0.646" Mean Radius


-----------


Avg Group ES: 2.255"


Avg Mean Radius: 0.702"
Best Group (MR):






IMI M855 (2009)





The Groups:


3.782" ES/1.102" Mean Radius


4.080" ES/1.089" Mean Radius


3.496" ES/1.038" Mean Radius


---------------


Avg Group ES: 3.786"


Avg Mean Radius: 1.076"





Best Group (MR)






The take home for me is that Israel hates Austria





Hertenberger SS109



The Groups:

2.098" ES/0.751" Mean Radius

2.471" ES/0.741" Mean Radius

--------

Avg Group ES: 2.2845"

Avg Mean Radius: 0.746"



Best Group (MR):







 
Link Posted: 8/13/2015 9:22:19 AM EDT
[#1]
Interesting.... try some PMC XTAC also. I have found it to be pretty accurate.

The PMC Bronze line on the other hand, sucks ( in my rifles. )
Link Posted: 8/13/2015 10:20:05 AM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Interesting.... try some PMC XTAC also. I have found it to be pretty accurate.

The PMC Bronze line on the other hand, sucks ( in my rifles. )
View Quote



I have also arrived with the same conclusion of the PMC XTAC.
Link Posted: 8/13/2015 10:57:41 AM EDT
[#3]
I just impressed the AUG was able to do 1.3 MOA 10 shot group with any ammo, with a 1.5X scope and an AUG trigger.

I'm also surprised the IMI was your worst shooting.  My own experience has been the opposite.
Link Posted: 8/13/2015 11:31:04 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I just impressed the AUG was able to do 1.3 MOA 10 shot group with any ammo, with a 1.5X scope and an AUG trigger.

I'm also surprised the IMI was your worst shooting.  My own experience has been the opposite.
View Quote



It's about who is behind the trigger
Link Posted: 8/13/2015 3:06:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



It's about who is behind the trigger
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just impressed the AUG was able to do 1.3 MOA 10 shot group with any ammo, with a 1.5X scope and an AUG trigger.

I'm also surprised the IMI was your worst shooting.  My own experience has been the opposite.



It's about who is behind the trigger


And finding an ammo your rifle and barrel like !

Mcantu, try some Fed. Tipped Varmint 50gr for inexpensive accuracy. Just over 1 MOA in all my rifles...

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/4550/category/47/


Link Posted: 8/13/2015 4:02:21 PM EDT
[#6]
I had really high hopes for that ADI 69gr SMK but it's been doing about the same in my BCM SS410.

Link Posted: 8/13/2015 4:13:59 PM EDT
[#7]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I just impressed the AUG was able to do 1.3 MOA 10 shot group with any ammo, with a 1.5X scope and an AUG trigger.



I'm also surprised the IMI was your worst shooting.  My own experience has been the opposite.
View Quote




i still feel like all the groups can be tightened up.  i need to work on getting a rear sandbag to keep the stock from moving so much and i'm limited by the old school 1.5x optic and donut of death reticle, which isn't made for precision shooting....







 
Link Posted: 8/13/2015 4:21:23 PM EDT
[#8]
I can get close to 1 MOA with the right ammo in my AUG, A3M1 , but that's not an automatic, and only done with match ammo, their 3X scope, and most importantly: just 5 shot groups.  Getting a 1.3 MOA group with 10 shots is some damned good shooting.
Link Posted: 8/13/2015 4:25:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


And finding an ammo your rifle and barrel like !

Mcantu, try some Fed. Tipped Varmint 50gr for inexpensive accuracy. Just over 1 MOA in all my rifles...

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/4550/category/47/


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just impressed the AUG was able to do 1.3 MOA 10 shot group with any ammo, with a 1.5X scope and an AUG trigger.

I'm also surprised the IMI was your worst shooting.  My own experience has been the opposite.



It's about who is behind the trigger


And finding an ammo your rifle and barrel like !

Mcantu, try some Fed. Tipped Varmint 50gr for inexpensive accuracy. Just over 1 MOA in all my rifles...

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/4550/category/47/




Good ammo and good price.  Though they have been creeping it up, a couple weeks ago I picked up a bunch from them at $5.79.  Now it's 5.99.  Also, be aware it's shit FC brass.  I had incipient case separation rings show up on 4 out of 20 I fired.  It's fine for first firing, I have no worries there.  But if you're hoping this is a source of good reloading brass, it's not!
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/449440_Federal__223_brass___still_junk___American_Eagle_50gr_ballistic_tipped_varmint.html
Link Posted: 8/13/2015 10:38:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Have you tried the Australian loads with the 55 grain blitz king bullets?
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 1:51:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Just to add another account on the ADI F1...

There was some concern of the F1 load being underpowered in the AR system. I didn't find that to be the case with my BCM midlength. I shot a few hundred rounds without issue.
I didn't shoot any groups, but using an EOTech I was able to hit a 6" gong at 200 with boring consistency. The only misses were pulled/called fliers. Taking the steel out to 300 took the hit rate down to 50%.

Standard free-floated BCM barrel

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/15/2015 2:28:57 PM EDT
[#12]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Just to add another account on the ADI F1...



There was some concern of the F1 load being underpowered in the AR system. I didn't find that to be the case with my BCM midlength. I shot a few hundred rounds without issue.

I didn't shoot any groups, but using an EOTech I was able to hit a 6" gong at 200 with boring consistency. The only misses were pulled/called fliers. Taking the steel out to 300 took the hit rate down to 50%.



Standard free-floated BCM barrel



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote




yeah, ADI F1 is definitely in the top tier of SS109 loads.  the F1A1 changes were less temperature sensitive powder (the same whats in their Outback branded loads), a slightly higher chamber pressure and improved accuracy



 
Link Posted: 8/16/2015 10:46:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Just to add another account on the ADI F1...

There was some concern of the F1 load being underpowered in the AR system. I didn't find that to be the case with my BCM midlength. I shot a few hundred rounds without issue.
I didn't shoot any groups, but using an EOTech I was able to hit a 6" gong at 200 with boring consistency. The only misses were pulled/called fliers. Taking the steel out to 300 took the hit rate down to 50%.

Standard free-floated BCM barrel

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote

Where did the "some concern" come from?  I hadn't heard any of it - though I wasn't looking for that sort of info anyway.
Link Posted: 8/17/2015 1:22:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Where did the "some concern" come from?  I hadn't heard any of it - though I wasn't looking for that sort of info anyway.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just to add another account on the ADI F1...

There was some concern of the F1 load being underpowered in the AR system. I didn't find that to be the case with my BCM midlength. I shot a few hundred rounds without issue.
I didn't shoot any groups, but using an EOTech I was able to hit a 6" gong at 200 with boring consistency. The only misses were pulled/called fliers. Taking the steel out to 300 took the hit rate down to 50%.

Standard free-floated BCM barrel

Where did the "some concern" come from?  I hadn't heard any of it - though I wasn't looking for that sort of info anyway.

According to manufacturer the F1A1 load had an increased chamber pressure to cycle reliably in M4 and M16 gas systems as well as the Aussie AUGs(which the F1 was intended for). Many took this to mean that the older F1 load wouldn't work reliably in those systems. A few people here returned or sold their cases of F1 based on that assumption.

This was a year or so ago when mixed lots of F1 and F1A1 were available from BulkAmmo for $250/900rds.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/17/2015 1:41:36 PM EDT
[#15]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





According to manufacturer the F1A1 load had an increased chamber pressure to cycle reliably in M4 and M16 gas systems as well as the Aussie AUGs(which the F1 was intended for). Many took this to mean that the older F1 load wouldn't work reliably in those systems. A few people here returned or sold their cases of F1 based on that assumption.



This was a year or so ago when mixed lots of F1 and F1A1 were available from BulkAmmo for $250/900rds.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
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View All Quotes
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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

Just to add another account on the ADI F1...



There was some concern of the F1 load being underpowered in the AR system. I didn't find that to be the case with my BCM midlength. I shot a few hundred rounds without issue.

I didn't shoot any groups, but using an EOTech I was able to hit a 6" gong at 200 with boring consistency. The only misses were pulled/called fliers. Taking the steel out to 300 took the hit rate down to 50%.



Standard free-floated BCM barrel


Where did the "some concern" come from?  I hadn't heard any of it - though I wasn't looking for that sort of info anyway.


According to manufacturer the F1A1 load had an increased chamber pressure to cycle reliably in M4 and M16 gas systems as well as the Aussie AUGs(which the F1 was intended for). Many took this to mean that the older F1 load wouldn't work reliably in those systems. A few people here returned or sold their cases of F1 based on that assumption.



This was a year or so ago when mixed lots of F1 and F1A1 were available from BulkAmmo for $250/900rds.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile




even though BulkAmmo was using pics of F1A1, i'm pretty sure all of the ammo they had was F1.  when called on it, they just photoshopped the "A1" off of the ammo can label.  real F1A1 has a green tip.  



 
Link Posted: 9/21/2015 11:49:28 PM EDT
[#16]
i just found two boxes of 90's vintage Hirtenberger SS109 in my closet.  this was supposed to be the creme de la creme of SS109 back in the day so i think i'm going to sacrifice one of boxes tomorrow to add it to this thread
Link Posted: 10/16/2015 1:59:03 AM EDT
[#17]
added 1990's vintage Hertenberger SS109 to OP
Link Posted: 10/17/2015 6:25:30 AM EDT
[#18]
should keep them targets, and get some zqi ss109.
Link Posted: 10/18/2015 7:33:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I'm also surprised the IMI was your worst shooting.  My own experience has been the opposite.
View Quote


I tested some IMI years ago and found it barely minute of Palestinian.

I may have to buy some more and retest.
Link Posted: 10/18/2015 8:54:34 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:


I tested some IMI years ago and found it barely minute of Palestinian.

I may have to buy some more and retest.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:


I'm also surprised the IMI was your worst shooting.  My own experience has been the opposite.


I tested some IMI years ago and found it barely minute of Palestinian.

I may have to buy some more and retest.

Some barrels "like" some loads and "hate" others.  It could be just a matter of this situation with the ammo and your barrel.
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