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Posted: 11/19/2008 10:54:08 AM EDT
I need some opinions and input for my next build from those "in the know".

I want to build an accurized tactical rifle to complement my stable of AR's. I already have two 16" carbines, one with irons & one with ACOG. I have an SBR with Aimpoint and a 20" A4 with ACOG.

I'd like the next one to be more along the lines of a mid-range sniper. The rifle will be built on a LMT lower with SOPMOD stock. I would also like to be able to use it with an AAC supressor and not be too unwieldy. I'm not trying to build a perfect clone of a Mk12 or RECCE, but a practical, highly accurate platform that balances weight and length with range and reliability.

So, here are the options I need help with...

16" or 18" stainless barrel?
Barrel weight/contour?
Larue free float or other brand?
Gas block preference?
Bipod choice?
Think I'll go with Troy front & rear BUIS.
What about optic choices? Was thinking about waiting for the new Accupoint, but I think I'd like a little more magnification.

I've thought about just taking the plunge and buying a Larue Stealth upper. I'd like to support local business...especially those who are as good to us as LaRue Tactical.

On the other had, I could build up an upper on my own for about $400 less.

What would you build?





Link Posted: 11/19/2008 10:57:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 10:59:17 AM EDT by Gthirteen]
What about caliber?



Link Posted: 11/19/2008 11:15:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gthirteen:
What about caliber?





My bad...5.56
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 11:17:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 11:22:15 AM EDT by Baldmonk]
Originally Posted By Scooter1942:
I need some opinions and input for my next build from those "in the know".

I want to build an accurized tactical rifle to complement my stable of AR's. I already have two 16" carbines, one with irons & one with ACOG. I have an SBR with Aimpoint and a 20" A4 with ACOG.

I'd like the next one to be more along the lines of a mid-range sniper. The rifle will be built on a LMT lower with SOPMOD stock. I would also like to be able to use it with an AAC supressor and not be too unwieldy. I'm not trying to build a perfect clone of a Mk12 or RECCE, but a practical, highly accurate platform that balances weight and length with range and reliability.

So, here are the options I need help with...

16" or 18" stainless barrel? 17" with rifle length gas. Rifle length gas has softest impulse for quickest follow-up
Barrel weight/contour? medium about 0.775" under handguards. 0.750" after
Larue free float or other brand? Really don't matter, as long as its a freefloat
Gas block preference? I like a "F" FSB. My personal preference
Bipod choice? None
Think I'll go with Troy front & rear BUIS. Good choice
What about optic choices? Was thinking about waiting for the new Accupoint, but I think I'd like a little more magnification. Personal preference, but buy quality.
I've thought about just taking the plunge and buying a Larue Stealth upper. I'd like to support local business...especially those who are as good to us as LaRue Tactical. If you like Larue. Buy Larue.
On the other had, I could build up an upper on my own for about $400 less. Good Luck with that. I spend more than that on just a quality barrel. Custom profile Krieger 1/7.75 from CLE is around $500 right now. You get what you pay for. Quality costs $$
What would you build?







Link Posted: 11/19/2008 11:22:01 AM EDT
Well, I would go with a 16" for all intesive purposes of an accurized ar platform that would be midrange.

If you are however going for the "sniper" role in which you won't be lugging it around a whole lot, go with a 18"

I only like 18" on spr clones.  They are nice, but kinda heavy and don't produce a whole lot of extra velocity.  To me it would be 16 or 20.  Plenty of barrels to choose from.  I find that anything long range I don't do with my AR.  I am sure plenty of people will disagree, but to me the caliber is better suited with my ability for >400 yards.  Anything further and I choose to go with big bore calibers for better balistic coeffecient and less drop.  

Very hard to take down a good buck in NM with an AR past 300 yards.  Shot placement is king, but a bigger bullet helps alot.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 11:22:24 AM EDT
I did a LaRue upper, Lilja 16" stainless, DD 12.0 over a PRI low pro gas block, harris bipod, geissele trigger, with an AAC M42K.  I'm going to put an Ops Inc 12th on it in the future though.



I originally had a pair of troy flip ups but removed them.  I like it better without.  I'm not using it for defensive purposes.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 11:28:35 AM EDT
I would go the Recce build route.  The Larue 16" would be fantastic start.  Throw a accupoint 3-9x or a nightforce 2.5-10x on top and you will be very happy.  I just ordered a Larue stealth in a 16" barrel and 13.2" rail config.  Putting my acog on top and a geisselle SSA in it.  If I had ranges with a longer distance I would be getting a higher power variable scope.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 12:56:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 1:34:34 PM EDT by chevyrulz]
Originally Posted By likelinus:
I find that anything long range I don't do with my AR.  I am sure plenty of people will disagree, but to me the caliber is better suited with my ability for >400 yards.  Anything further and I choose to go with big bore calibers for better balistic coeffecient and less drop.  

Very hard to take down a good buck in NM with an AR past 300 yards.  Shot placement is king, but a bigger bullet helps alot.


< means LESS THAN, > means greater than

i would go 18" stainless fluted bbl, low pro gas block under rifle length FF tube of any brand, harris bipod, US optics or nightforce glass.  the Falcon Menace is a pretty bad ass tactical scope on a budget, their new model has mil dot reticle on the first focal plane (for accurate mil range estimates @ any magnification) w/ optional .1 mil windage/elevation turrets. IIRC it's a 4-14x44, not sure but that's a close estimate. all this for ~$400!  looking for link...

ETA: links found...and i was right on the magnification/objective specs

review of Falcon Menace 4-14x44

Falcon Menace 4.5-18x56 review (not FFP reticle, mil dots accurate @ 10x)

best price i've seen is $390 HERE

i have no personal experience w/ these scopes but have been considering purchasing one on a recommendation from the 'hide (snipershide.com)
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 1:00:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By chevyrulz:
Originally Posted By likelinus:
I find that anything long range I don't do with my AR.  I am sure plenty of people will disagree, but to me the caliber is better suited with my ability for >400 yards.  Anything further and I choose to go with big bore calibers for better balistic coeffecient and less drop.  

Very hard to take down a good buck in NM with an AR past 300 yards.  Shot placement is king, but a bigger bullet helps alot.


< means LESS THAN, > means greater than

i would go 18" stainless fluted bbl, low pro gas block under rifle length FF tube of any brand, harris bipod, US optics or nightforce glass.  the Falcon Menace is a pretty bad ass tactical scope on a budget, their new model has mil dot reticle on the first focal plane (for accurate mil range estimates @ any magnification) w/ optional .1 mil windage/elevation turrets. IIRC it's a 4-14x44, not sure but that's a close estimate. all this for ~$400!  looking for link...


... I hate you....

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 1:23:47 PM EDT
I've owned them all, SPR/Recce/DMR etc..


what have I learned?

There isn't anything a 16inch barrel cannot do, anything past that, I think you are wasting your time.

Get a high quality 16inch barrel and it will shoot just as well as the 18/20incher at the distances you will probably practice at
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 1:26:00 PM EDT
Go to whiteoak arms get one.....................BE Happy thats the best one out there, it is not a militayr style platform but it is the best match piece designed for 600 and beyond.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 1:26:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 1:29:04 PM EDT by decodeddiesel]
If I were doing an SPR/DMR target rig I would just skip all of the drama of building it myself and get:

-a pre-assembled special purpose upper, be it a LaRue Stealth upper (probably the 18" with the 13.2" handguard with a Smith Vortex), Centurion Arms SPR, ADCO Mk. 12 replica, etc.  

- the lower and LPK of your choice (billet lowers like the LaRue are nice) with a Geissele DMR trigger and a Magpul MIAD...

- a Magpul PRS stock

- 2.5-10x32 NXS Nightforce optics on a LT-104 mount

- Troy flip-up BUIS

- a good Harris Bi-pod.

- some sort of ballistics chart that you can carry or mount to your weapon

- 1000 - 2000 rounds of high quality ammo heavy OTM ammo (read Black Hills 75gr or 77gr Red or Blue Box)
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 1:33:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 2:04:06 PM EDT by tkosiba]
Sounds like you are describing my new 18" WOA S.S. SPR profile mid-length 6.8 SPC, topped with a Nightforce 2.5 x 10, a YHM rifle FF handguard and PWS flash hider/brake. By the way, it shoots .16" 3 shot groups at 50 yds. and will make IPSC major if needed (but not with a 16" barrel). Recently added but not shown, Vltor Emod stock, Bobro Gen 2 bi-pod and Aimpoint T-1.

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo122/tkosiba/WOAAR001.jpg
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 1:40:09 PM EDT
I love my Noveske 16.1" recon with Trijicon TA-33

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 10:43:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 10:45:13 AM EDT by JJREA]
I have a couple of thoughts for you.

#1 Are either of your present carbines capable of mounting optics and do the barrels show good accuracy?

Personally, instead of buying a completely new 16" upper.  I would first mount some optics on one of my carbines and see how she does.  As long as they are flat tops.  If they are both retro kiss A1/A2's, forget I even said anything.

But if not, if one of your barrels is on a flat top and can shoot.  I say get some glass you want and maybe free float it and put a harris bipod on it, or something like that.  Use match ammo to determine if your barrels can shoot.

Because what is the point of having (3) 16" carbines?  2 I could see.  But 3?  Unless you just want to have one to have one more.  

Now, are you going to pack this rifle or not?  My thinking is, by the time you put on optics and have a heavy barrel and a bipod, even a 16"er is going to be pretty heavy.  Why not just go for a 20" DMR type build anyways.  You'll have a little bit more velocity and if you're just going to shoot it at the range and not carry it all day long, who cares how heavy it is.  On the other hand, if you want something super accurate that you want to carry alot, then you would be wise to find a barrel that is accurate, compact and has a profile that is not too heavy without sacrificing accuracy.  Like Denny has a barrel that is only a little heavier than a standard M4, but it is SS and has a better chamber (I think).  

When I put my scope and bipod on my recce upper, it's not something I want to carry around all day anyways.  I'm kind of a wuss though.  But they are fun to shoot!!!!!

Now having said all that, there is nothing wrong with a recce 16" set up.  I like mine alot and it shoots real good.  I just thought I'd give you some things to think about.


With a different buttstock on there, it's a little lighter, but like I said, not something I want to shoot off hand much.  This one has a WOA barrel and upper.  It shoots very well.  Better than I can shoot it.

And another thing, why would you just put a reflex sight on something that you want to be a medium range rifle?  I'd go with some magnification.  Even 4x would be alot of help at 400 yards.  Heck even at 100 it's a lot more help.  IMHO.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 3:03:51 PM EDT
This is what I built.
Got the upper on the EE, it is a JTAC SPR build, 18" Kreiger SPR barrel, CMT upper,
LaRue rail. I added KAC buis, the LaRue SPE-E, and the Millet TRS-1.
Lower is a DoubleStar, Stag LPK, KAC 2 stage trigger, Vltor EMod, Magpul MIAD.



Link Posted: 11/20/2008 3:13:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 3:16:39 PM EDT by Scooter1942]
Here's the current stable

Bushie M4 Patrolman's Carbine w/ TA01NSN & KAC RAS


M16A4 clone w/ TA31F & KAC RAS (Rock River & CMMG barrel)


Colt 6520


The other will be a Mk18Mod0 clone. Paperwork should be here any day now. LMT 10.5" upper, RR lower, SOPMOD stock and all the issue goodies.

I've pretty much decided to go with the following on the next build...(I just bought the barrel, matched bolt assy & upper on the EE, and it has only 125 rds. down range.)

18" Stainless 1/7 WOA SPR barrel with mid length gas system, Vltor micro gas block & M4 cuts
Votex FH until my suppressor goes through, then I'll switch to an AAC Blackout
Larue 13.2 FF Rail system
PRI Gas buster charging Handle
LMT lower
LMT SOPMOD stock

I'm not quite sure what I'll do about glass. No reflex...something with adjustable magnification and capable of at least 4x if not more. I'm open to suggestions.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 7:13:08 PM EDT
Nice!  Very nice!!  My suggestion would be get an aimpoint micro for your M4gery and mount the NSN on your new rig.  

But then again, there are alot of other good options.  Like a Larue mount and a S&B.  Especially if money is not an issue.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 7:40:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JJREA:
Nice!  Very nice!!  My suggestion would be get an aimpoint micro for your M4gery and mount the NSN on your new rig.  

But then again, there are alot of other good options.  Like a Larue mount and a S&B.  Especially if money is not an issue.


Money is always an issue!

I have a Trijicon Accupoint 1.25x4 with amber reticle in a Larue mount. I put it on my Sig 556, but it might get moved to this new rifle until I can afford something else.

There seems to be a lot of positive comments about the Leupold 2.5x8. Other suggestions?
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 3:08:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2008 3:09:55 AM EDT by DevL]
With the can you definantly want 16" not 18"... oops you already bought 18"... well at least know 10X is the MINIMUM you will be happy with... more is better.  Dont stick a TA01 on there.  Look at IOR and the NF 2.5-10 scopes.  I was barely satisfied with 3.5-10X Leupold M3 and 10X is too little for a precision scope for me when I shot a 18" SPR.  Id like max magnification in the 12-18X range.  If I go 18" agai it would have to be a .308, not a 5.56.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 7:50:27 AM EDT
I think devl is right on this one.  If you want a precision rifle.  Get something with good magnification and target turrets.  If you're going to shoot to 600, you'll want that option.  Which it will be capable of.  Even further.
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