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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/15/2004 9:38:20 PM EST
Okay, I've got a lower on the way. While it's in transit I'm figuring out what kit I want to build on it and I'm figuring I'll probably go with a M4 16 inch (unless I suddenly go for the XM177) since I want those threads.

But I'm trying to keep costs as low as possible, so I was thinking about just saving $75 and getting a A2 upper. I don't have a red dot or ACOG scope, none of the scope I have (Leupold 3-9x, Redfield 12x) make any sense on a carbine, and I don't have the funds to buy a good scope in the near future (need ammo, mags, etc. first). But when I said I was going with the A2, most of the folks I know (not AR15.com folks though) freaked out about how I wasn't getting a flattop.

So how big a deal is it? I've seen ACOG's mounted on top of carry handles, and Aimpoints there or forward mounted on them. Am I really missing out on a big deal, or should I blow that $75 on new mags and 5.56mm?
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 9:40:15 PM EST
Buy a flat top and a BUIS, which you'll need when you find money for optics.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 10:02:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 10:46:50 PM EST
I'm a college kid. Money's hard to come by. I switched to an A3 recently and relieved a lot of the suffering caused by the A2.

You can find chopped carry handles for ~$50 in the EE. Do yourself a favor and get the A3.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 2:06:35 AM EST
Personally I prefer the A2 upper. It gets the optics up higher, which is at least more comfortable for me, plus you don't have to remove your optics to switch back to shooting irons.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 2:20:53 AM EST
For a carbine with 1X optics, I prefer the A2 upper as well. I just built a LW "sunset" carbine with all the evil features and I used the A2 and mounted my red dot on the FF rail system.

If you do use an A3, get a FIXED BUIS. If you are being shot at and your optic goes down, you do not want to be fucking around with flip ups.

I prefer the flat top on a dedicated precision rifle to be used with magnified optics.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 2:28:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 2:29:52 AM EST by jjniven]
Shot at, lol this is a civilian AR-15 forum, I don't think any of use will be getting shot at anytime soon.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 2:32:25 AM EST
I just ordered a A3 upper for my post sunset AR. I've been using an ARMS 39A2 to mount an Aimpoint on my A2 upper. Man that thing is freakin heavy...solid mount, but freakin heavy! I'm looking forward to loosing some of the weight on my rifle. FWIW I would go with the A3 if I was you.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 3:08:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:
If you NEVER plan on mounting an optic on this upper, then the A2 is just fine.

If you WILL at some point be using any topic, then get the flattop now. It will save you both money and weight over mounting optics on an A2 upper, due to the adapters required, and the flattop will make everything more secure.

-Troy



I think this is pretty much right on. If money is tight and you know you will not be adding optics to this gun than an A2 is fine but if you can afford it and\or have any plans to mount optics on this gun, an A3 upper is the way to go
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 3:37:22 AM EST
Can't go wrong with A3, quite honestly.

If you might be going electronic in the future, get it minus carry handle but snag a BUIS.

- BG

Link Posted: 9/16/2004 3:53:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By jjniven:
Shot at, lol this is a civilian AR-15 forum, I don't think any of use will be getting shot at anytime soon.

How do you know , Kreskin ?
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 4:19:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By jjniven:
Shot at, lol this is a civilian AR-15 forum, I don't think any of use will be getting shot at anytime soon.



I'll try to keep that in mind next time I get out of my cruiser.......

Link Posted: 9/16/2004 4:24:13 AM EST
Im fond of the A2 & A1, that was the first ones that I've purchased and used while in the service.
That being said, go for the A3, you'll soon get the bug and want red dot sights and scopes etc.

TG
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 4:27:37 AM EST
I agree with Lancelot. I am one of MANY LEO's on this forum we also have alot of military folk and others that carry everyday in the course of our duty.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 4:36:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By jjniven:
Shot at, lol this is a civilian AR-15 forum, I don't think any of use will be getting shot at anytime soon.



Uhmmm? Say again? Speak for yourself.

/S2
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 5:31:00 AM EST
The A2 looks cheaper initially, but:
A3+ Carry handle < A2 + A3 reciever + labor.

Bottom line is, do what you want. There are plenty of people who plan on turning all their A2s into A3s.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 5:44:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 5:47:01 AM EST by Vector_Joe]
messed up this post, see next one.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 5:44:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 5:46:17 AM EST by Vector_Joe]
Another vote for the flattop.

In terms of cost, you can get an A2 upper for $140



or

you can get an A3 upper for $90 + a fixed rear site(see bottom of page) for $50 = $140

+
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 5:51:26 AM EST
Or even better, you can get an A3 upper for $48 + a fixed rear site(see bottom of page) for $50 = $98

+
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 5:56:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 6:06:00 AM EST by Leisure_Shoot]
If you go with a flat top and a BUIS, get an LMT.
It's one of the few that are height (distance) adjustable. (if that matters to you)

here's one for sale in the EE





here is mine with the LMT rear sight installed.
Click on it for a larger picture.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:00:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 6:06:37 AM EST by Leisure_Shoot]

Originally Posted By Vector_Joe:
Or even better, you can get an A3 upper for $48 + a fixed rear site(see bottom of page) for $50 = $98

www.adcofirearms.com/rra/Upper%20Receiver%20A4.jpg + knight-tac.com/fa/YHM-9493.jpg



The pictures I saw show uppers without forward assists or dust covers,
if my eyes were not deceiving me.
That will cost you another $25-35 bucks by the time you pay for shipping.
So the savings are not that great.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:10:44 AM EST
First, let me say that a flat-top upper is my #1 choice. If you want a carry handle, you can add one. But with an A2, you are stuck with what you have. Less options with the A2. Having said that, I had a A2-upper that I liked. For mounting a red-dot, I just got the goose-neck mount. As far as Aimpoints go, I actually prefer that to mounting right on a flattop.

Of course, the cost of mounts you need to use optics on a A2 negates the savings of getting a A2 upper in the first place.

Spend your money once for a upper, and get the flattop.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:19:45 AM EST
If you go A2 you're pretty much stuck with an A2. If you go A3 you can get a removable carry handle and have your A2 or remove it and have an A3. My first 2 builds were A2's, my last build is an A3, I like the A3 much better. As for mounting optics, how can you not. Heck, if nothing else you can pick up a cheap Tasco dot sight for $40 bucks to get you by until you can save up for something nice.
Another thing you might want to consider is a folding front sight. I know, the standard front is cheaper and sturdier BUT when you go folding front you get a much cleaner sight picture thru your dot optics. I'm very glad that I went folding front on my latest build, I get a much better field of view thru my Trijicon with the front sight folded down, out of the way. Just some food for thought.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:22:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 6:23:47 AM EST by Vector_Joe]

Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:

Originally Posted By Vector_Joe:
Or even better, you can get an A3 upper for $48 + a fixed rear site(see bottom of page) for $50 = $98

www.adcofirearms.com/rra/Upper%20Receiver%20A4.jpg + knight-tac.com/fa/YHM-9493.jpg



The pictures I saw show uppers without forward assists or dust covers,
if my eyes were not deceiving me.
That will cost you another $25-35 bucks by the time you pay for shipping.
So the savings are not that great.



The shipping (for the stripped upper) was $8(LAR) and the FA/dust covers can be had for about $18 + $4shipping (ADCO) = $30

which including the stripped upper= $78 (for complete upper)

If you buy the complete upper w FA/dust cover + shipping = $94 (ADCO)

He did say "costs as low as possible"
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 7:43:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Vector_Joe:

Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
The pictures I saw show uppers without forward assists or dust covers,
if my eyes were not deceiving me.
That will cost you another $25-35 bucks by the time you pay for shipping.
So the savings are not that great.



The shipping (for the stripped upper) was $8(LAR) and the FA/dust covers can be had for about $18 + $4shipping (ADCO) = $30

which including the stripped upper= $78 (for complete upper)

If you buy the complete upper w FA/dust cover + shipping = $94 (ADCO)

He did say "costs as low as possible"



So what are you disputing? I stated the cost savings is not all that great.
You demonstrated that. ($16 savings for a blemished upper)
I posted that because when I saw it I was pretty excited by the price until I saw what was included,
and a new-to-AR's guy might not realize the additional parts that would be needed.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:00:52 AM EST
I seem to be in the minority. I like the A2 upper and just bought an M4 with it. I find that the A2 and the A3 detachable seem to shoot differently for me. I also feel that I will use a carbine with the iron sghts more. If I want optics I will mount something small on the the handle.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:15:33 AM EST
LOL. Nothing like an ole A2 vs A3 question to get the forum hopping, eh?

Unless you PREFER the A2 over the Flat top (in other words, make sure you go out and try each one out, even if you only shoulder the weapon) then the Flat top is an absolute no brainer. I was in the same position when I bought my AR. I went with the flat top and never looked back. You can always add a carry handle to a flat top if you want to go that route.

One other consideration. Not that you would ever even consider selling your baby once you have it, consider resale value. I don't see too many people out there looking for A2 fixed carry handle ARs.
YMMV
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:35:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 8:50:18 AM EST by Vector_Joe]

Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:

Originally Posted By Vector_Joe:

Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
The pictures I saw show uppers without forward assists or dust covers,
if my eyes were not deceiving me.
That will cost you another $25-35 bucks by the time you pay for shipping.
So the savings are not that great.



The shipping (for the stripped upper) was $8(LAR) and the FA/dust covers can be had for about $18 + $4shipping (ADCO) = $30

which including the stripped upper= $78 (for complete upper)

If you buy the complete upper w FA/dust cover + shipping = $94 (ADCO)

He did say "costs as low as possible"



So what are you disputing? I stated the cost savings is not all that great.
You demonstrated that. ($16 savings for a blemished upper)
I posted that because when I saw it I was pretty excited by the price until I saw what was included,
and a new-to-AR's guy might not realize the additional parts that would be needed.



Sorry, wasn't trying to dispute anything, just going into more details about the savings.

Just incase anyone wants to see how blemished they are, here are the pics.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 9:05:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:
If you NEVER plan on mounting an optic on this upper, then the A2 is just fine.

If you WILL at some point be using any topic, then get the flattop now. It will save you both money and weight over mounting optics on an A2 upper, due to the adapters required, and the flattop will make everything more secure.

-Troy



Right on!! I know from experience.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 9:06:55 AM EST
Go with the A3, you can do so much more with it.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 9:23:15 AM EST
I'm going with a 16" V-match. Mounting a fixed rearsight till funds are available for optics. Cost of the carry handle or a fixed sight are about the same. Front sight question: hIt has a light gathering optic that runs up the front post to the tip.
Of course the answer to the original question is: Buy Both uppers!!!! helps
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 10:45:21 AM EST
if you decide to use standard sights then you're doing good with an A2, if you think you might wanna add a acope or just about ANYTHING......go with an A3. Then if for some reason you must have standard sights buy a carry handle instead of buying the A3 you didn't buy!
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 11:05:18 AM EST
i waited for a great deal.

turned out to be an a2.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 12:18:24 PM EST
Having had A1's, A2's, and A3's, I have to vote here 110% for the A3. There just is no drawback.

An aside, I also have purchased one of the "blemished uppers", and have the same experience, if it is blemished, I don't know where. Looks great to me.

The DPMS Mangonel flipup is excellent, not at all flimsy. On the other hand, the cut down A2 sights are rugged.

But there are so many other excellent sights (I like Eotechs) and scopes, and you can use them all easily with an A3.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 1:05:49 PM EST
Generally speaking I prefer the A1 if you're going irons.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 3:33:22 PM EST
My $.02. Why limit your options. sure it's a few dollars more, but if you think of dump shit ya piss your money on, you can find the extra kachink. I had a Fixed A-2 for years, ccause in 94 Flattops were not big. never thought I would leave the Irons... you know, the "I'll never go optics" crowd. finally decided I wanted an Aimpoint and took the plunge and got a flat top and switched it out. never say never on optics. with flattop ya get the best of both worlds. it's like having a Fixed BUIS. it only gives ya ONE OPTION!!! with a fold down BUIS ya have TWO... Options are good!!!
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 3:40:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Harv24:
Options are good!!!



but moving parts are bad.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 4:16:44 PM EST
I'm going to vote for A2 here. Simple, bombproof design.

An AR-15 without a carry handle just looks...weird. Just my opinion.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 4:45:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By jjniven:
Shot at, lol this is a civilian AR-15 forum, I don't think any of use will be getting shot at anytime soon.



So are you saying that you consider your guns toys, and are not to be taken seriously?

I know plenty of civilians who have been shot at.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 5:14:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By jjniven:
Shot at, lol this is a civilian AR-15 forum, I don't think any of use will be getting shot at anytime soon.



So are you saying that you consider your guns toys, and are not to be taken seriously?

I know plenty of civilians who have been shot at.



How many of them shot back with an AR?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:45:57 AM EST
Trust me on this. I didn't think I'd like the A3 either, until I got one. It's the only way to go. Scopes/dot sights mount eaiser, no special base to buy, just mount it up. Most dot sights have a weaver style mount that'll bolt right up to your flattop. Give it a try, if you don't like it it'll be easy to sell or trade for an A2.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:53:49 PM EST
Originaly posted by norman74


but moving parts are bad.


ever fly in an Airplane???
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 1:16:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Harv24:
Originaly posted by norman74


but moving parts are bad.


ever fly in an Airplane???



Sure, all the time. Moving parts are what makes the world go round. Excessive moving parts are what makes the world grind to a halt.
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