Hey all.  I'm looking to buy my first rifle, likely an AR.  My first priority is enjoyment of the piece/enjoyment of firing it, followed by competition in close second.

After reading a bunch of information, going to several local shoots, and firing and handling several varieties of ARs, I fell in love with the Bushmaster Varminter.  Everything about it- the trigger feel, the weight, the vented tube guard, the fluted (non SS!) barrel- everything felt and looked great.

Only thing is, as you all know, it's a 1 in 9.  Now, Bushmaster assures me people shoot 600y with Varminters no problem.  I know it's good up to about 75 gr., but I also know that the serious competitors shoot 80gr.  If I were just interested in high scores, I wouldn't buy it.  But, enjoyment of the piece is #1 for me.  On the other hand, I don't want something that shoots crap at 600, and puts me at a serious disadvantage on the lines.

So, my first question is:

Does anyone here have experience with the varminter at 600y?  Are you satisfied with it, and if so, what ammo do you use?  Does anyone here use it in match competition?

Secondly, I'm looking to pair it with the following two pieces from Bushmaster:

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/bmas/yhm-9360k.asp
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/bmas/yhm-643k.asp

to learn how to shoot well with iron sights before I jump to optics.  So my second question is:

Have any of you paired a varminter with iron sights like these?  I'd love to see some pics, to know what it will look like all pieced together.

Thanks everyone.  I really enjoy these forums, and I look forward to getting your advice as I become an owner!

BigBrother welcome.
Start off with this link first.

Ammo-Oracle
It is a bit of a long read but it will answer any and all of the questions regarding this topic. You can scroll down to the question
Q. Ok, what is all this stuff about rifle twists and different ammo?

But 1/9 is a a great overall rate.

The varminter is not designed to shoot heavy loads as it is a VARMINT rifle. You will get excellent results from it w/ lighter varmint ammo. If you are looking to get into 600yd highpower matches you are looking at the wrong rifle. Also the intentions of that rifle are to use optics. Really not an iron sight weapon. I have actually never seen a varminter without a scope and I have seen a lot of them. I think you should look at the Bushy DCM or RRA NM. Sounds more like what you are wanting.

Ask Bushmaster if they can make you a varminter with a 24" 1-in-8 barrel, then you will be set with any possible bullet.

If all you can get is a 1-9, I can tell you for a fact that Hornady 75 HPBT Match and 75 AMAX will stabilize in a 26" Winchester M70 varmint, so it's pretty likely that they will in a 24" Bushy.

The 75 AMAX is a killer 600 yard bullet.

Yeah I tried asking them several times- no can do.  They will not make it in 1 in 8.

If it really is the wrong rifle to go for, maybe one of you guys can recommend another way to get into competitive shooting.  All I know of is the NRA/Match-style.  And I really, really dislike the look and feel of my options in this form of competition.  There's no way I'm spending my 1.5K on a 20" plain jane AR with plastic handguards and fixed sights- it's too generic and I don't enjoy them, either aesthetcially or in handling.  Space guns are too expensive and unattracitve, IMO, and M1As are both too expensive and not what I want for my first piece.

So what the heck do I do?  I want a rifle that I'll enjoy, but I want the opportunity to compete in order to become better with it.  The other rifle I've always considered is a Savage .308- I've fired it, I've loved it, it's in my budget.  But besides the odd F-class match, I haven't heard of anything around here that would allow me to compete with it.  (I'm in New England.)  

Are there other forms of competition?  Most people tell me "match rifle is it."  So unless you can either help me out in that way and open my eyes to a different class of competition and rifles, or if someone can tell me they've competed with a Varminter with iron sights, I'm sorta stuck ;)  

Clearly you have some personal preferences as to look/feel and some activities in mind.  I'm of the opinion that starting with something simple, but good quality is the best way to build skills.  I would normally suggest a good 20 inch A2 heavy barrel if you're focusing on range work.  A grand would get you a good one with NM trigger and sights.  I believe that service rifle rules now permit a flattop A3 configuration with carry handle sights as an option.  That would give you a great starting point and allow you to move up to optics where permitted.

Although I'm in my 50's and have bad eyes and no real shooting talent, I still use iron sights for the challenge.  My only scoped firearm (at this time) is a Savage 110FP .308.  I do have to admit it's fun to shoot with a scope.

Seriously, a high quality Bushmaster, RRA, DMPS or other lower with a good trigger will serve you for a long time.  You can build another upper reasonably when you determine what you need.

Quoted: Seriously, a high quality Bushmaster, RRA, DMPS or other lower with a good trigger will serve you for a long time.  You can build another upper reasonably when you determine what you need.

+1   imho I would get a RRA lower with the NM trigger; then choose a RRA upper to fit the shooting displine you want to do.  Maybe the M4 type upper would be allowed in DCM/CMP comp.  and 3 gun comp., or maybe the NM upper, then a varminter upper later.

Maybe I should look more at what makes the varminter so appealing, and try to match that.  There are three major factors I like about it-  the vented hand guard, the fluting on the barrel, and, MOST importantly, the fact that the barrel is black.  I cannot stand the look of SS barrels on  black ARs.  And so, does anyone know who makes really good uppers that would look like the varminter, but in 1 in 8?  (24", of course)

Thanks

Do you want to look at it or shoot it? The Varminter really isn't a competition gun. It is a varmint gun that happens to be a good target rifle as well. It is not legal in high power matches and in NRA matches full of guys with mega buck space guns you wont be at all competitive. So if you are serious about competing you are better off following function than form. If you just want a rifle to have fun with and admire the look of get the varminter.

One suggestion for you. Some guys will call me nuts but it's a great gun. Oly Ultramatch. 20" black SS bbl, 1/8" twist available, free float tube (not vented). fluting is available. SWAT magazine called it the most accurate AR they ever tested. It will shoot sub 1/4" group with good ammo and optic. It is a broach cut SS ultramatch bbl. Very consistent and accurate. You wont touch anything near it's accuracy for the money. You can pick up an Ultramatch for about $950 or about $1000 w/ fluted bbl.

I've heard questionable things, though, about Olys.  Thoughts anyone?

Quoted: I've heard questionable things, though, about Olys.  Thoughts anyone?

Go register over at OA2.org and ask guys that actually own them and you will get a far different response then you will here.

Quoted: Do you want to look at it or shoot it? The Varminter really isn't a competition gun. It is a varmint gun that happens to be a good target rifle as well. It is not legal in high power CMP matches and in NRA matches full of guys with mega buck space guns you wont be at all competitive actually he won't be competitive no matter if he brings a TUBB 2000 to the line. Highpower is not a game where you can buy enough points to matter.  The only way to move up is to shoot a lot. So if you are serious about competing you are better off following function than form. If you just want a rifle to have fun with and admire the look of get the varminter.

Since he doesn't like an AR configured as a service or match rifle, the ony option left in NRA Highpower is a bolt gun.  And make no mistake, they are not difficult to master in rapid fire, and they are ultra accurate.

Very interesting.  Care to elaborate on options, suggestions, etc.?  I didn't even know this was a possibility.  It sounds like they'd be very easy to maintain and learn as well (many fewer parts, for one)

Thanks!

With most Bushmaster barrels you can request a 1 in 7, although I wish they offered a 1 in 8 beyond their CMP barrel...  Something to think about if you want a 75+ bullet.

Para, I've tried calling and writing them- and they insist- I cannot get this rifle in anything but the 1 in 9.  It sucks-  it's such a beaut too  hinking.gif

BigBrother

You can always build yourself a varminter AR. Or have one built to your specifications.
There are many fine dealers here who can do such a build. You should contact a couple and see what they could do for you.
Look Here
and here


As to your earlier post regarding the Savage 308. I thought about that rifle as well, but I had to go with the Remington Model 700 PSS in 308. The Remington is a far superior choice for many reasons. The available trigger groups are readily available and high quality. If you have 1500.00 to spend you can get a very nice scope to go along. The 700 is around $850.00  

Question- would it be such a bad idea to just buy the varminter, learn how to shoot with 69 or 75 gr, get into it, get better, and if I really want to compete seriously, just switch out the upper later on?  I mean, that's what's so good about ARs, isn't it?  That I can keep the lower and the stock and put on a faster barrel with globe sights, etc. if I really get into it?