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Posted: 5/3/2012 9:03:02 PM EDT
I want to build a 16" middy carbine, my only problem is I dont know what company to go with. I'm looking for a 1:7 cromelined 5.56 NATO barrel. I really like the Spikes barres, not sure how I feel about their "optimum" profile and the CMMG barrels. I know DD has some good barrels, what other company has barrels that fit my requirements?
Link Posted: 5/3/2012 9:09:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2012 9:13:59 PM EDT by countryboy52590]
PSA has some uppers with mid-length gas systems which offer cold hammer forged chrome lined barrels if I'm not mistaken. Might wanna check with them.

I'm sure you can pick up just the barrels or if you choose to go with an entire upper they can suit that need as well.

Or check with Del-Ton for barrels, they're 1:9" twist though. Del-Ton
Link Posted: 5/3/2012 9:16:30 PM EDT
Some one told me about "Pual Meadow" armory awhile back. At least that's how I thought it was spelled back then. Like I said before, help a noob out. Thanks
Link Posted: 5/3/2012 9:22:49 PM EDT
I believe they meant Palmetto State Armory. I have never bought from them but I hear good things. I have a middy spikes with a 16 1in7 barrel and love it.
Link Posted: 5/3/2012 9:25:23 PM EDT
Check out BCM...and go carbine (vice middy).
Link Posted: 5/3/2012 9:30:38 PM EDT
BCM is always sold out. Why canine vs middy? Everything i have read suggest middy is the way to go
Link Posted: 5/3/2012 9:39:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dbbeacham:
BCM is always sold out. Why canine vs middy? Everything i have read suggest middy is the way to go


Either will work. This is a great site for info, only problem is you have alot of fan boys of very specific type setups that think everything else will fail. You will hear alot about how you must have M4 feedramps, you must have a mid system, other wise it will be overgassed yada yada yada, you must have this muzzel brake and this type buffer or your recoil will be bad (can it ever be bad with a .223?) etc. etc. As long as you stay with a good brand, of which there are about 10 dispite this site telling you there is maybe 3, you will be good to go.

For whats is worth, I just bought a Daniel Defense M4V5 and I love it.
Link Posted: 5/3/2012 9:47:40 PM EDT
This is my possible set up for my next build:

Rainier Arms matched reciever set (already have)
Spikes Tactical 16" mid length barrel
FA BCG (either BCM or Rainier Arms)
CMMG LPK (on the way)
Magpul UBR or STR(would get the Spikes lower kit with ST-T2 buffer)
BCM CH MOD 3
Still deciding between FF and non-FF handguards.

I know some say KNS Anti-rotation pins are not a must, but I'm watching my hammer pin rotate as we speak. Thinking about getting a set or 2, although I think they look really dumb.
Link Posted: 5/4/2012 3:01:22 AM EDT
Are you really a NOOB?

Cause if that means you don't have an AR, then my advice is NOT to build one. You should have a manufactured, 100% working gun with a warranty before you build, in my opinion. You should be learning to use the gun first, not trying to figure out what you need to build one. Seriously, if you don't know the platform yet, how in *(#$ do you think you'll be able to make good judgements on what you want to build? And you won't save any money... that is a myth.

Building is fun, and the people here are great to help and I recommend you do that... after you have a working gun and have shot it, trained with it and have put in the time you should...

Link Posted: 5/4/2012 3:13:21 AM EDT
I somewhat disagree on the buying instead of building. Im in the process of bulding my first AR and ive learned a ton just by reading and shopping for what I want. Not only that, but once im done Ill know where every piece of my AR goes and what its supposed to do (my lower is build, just need a few more parts to finish the upper). Plus you can build a great rifle for the same price you can buy a good rifle if you shop around enough.
Link Posted: 5/4/2012 3:26:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shadow7874:
I somewhat disagree on the buying instead of building. Im in the process of bulding my first AR and ive learned a ton just by reading and shopping for what I want. Not only that, but once im done Ill know where every piece of my AR goes and what its supposed to do (my lower is build, just need a few more parts to finish the upper). Plus you can build a great rifle for the same price you can buy a good rifle if you shop around enough.


This
Link Posted: 5/4/2012 4:11:01 AM EDT



Originally Posted By KILLERB6:


Check out BCM...and go carbine (vice middy).


can you expand on this?



 
Link Posted: 5/4/2012 4:33:01 AM EDT
Paul Meadow most likely translates into Palmetto State Armory. I've had them do FFL transfers for me twice now. $25 can't be beat by any FFL closer to me so I'll drive the extra few miles out of my way to have them do it. I've not had a problem with their customer service and I definitely plan on using them again. I'll be in the market for an upper receiver before too long and I'll be getting it from them.

Link Posted: 5/4/2012 7:37:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2012 7:38:32 AM EDT by Direct-Drive]

As stated above, these are among the best in their price point.....quality parts.
I would pick one....

PSA Complete Uppers
Link Posted: 5/4/2012 8:00:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2012 8:02:18 AM EDT by AR45fan]
Originally Posted By dbbeacham:

I know some say KNS Anti-rotation pins are not a must, but I'm watching my hammer pin rotate as we speak. Thinking about getting a set or 2, although I think they look really dumb.


JP Industries makes anti-rotation pins that end in neat little button-head screws.  They are good-looking and only $9.99 a pair.  Compare them to KNS before you buy.  JP also makes a great reduced power spring set that will significantly lighten your trigger for about the same price. Since you'll be in there changing the pins you might as well upgrade the springs and keep the stock ones for spares.
Link Posted: 5/4/2012 8:15:09 AM EDT
No disrespect but I don't think the OP knows the difference between the two
Link Posted: 5/4/2012 8:42:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR45fan:
Originally Posted By dbbeacham:

I know some say KNS Anti-rotation pins are not a must, but I'm watching my hammer pin rotate as we speak. Thinking about getting a set or 2, although I think they look really dumb.


JP Industries makes anti-rotation pins that end in neat little button-head screws.  They are good-looking and only $9.99 a pair.  Compare them to KNS before you buy.  JP also makes a great reduced power spring set that will significantly lighten your trigger for about the same price. Since you'll be in there changing the pins you might as well upgrade the springs and keep the stock ones for spares.

JP is marketed as "anti-walk"....KNS as "anti-rotational".
Mr. Stoner would have keyed those pins if there was a problem with rotation.
Link Posted: 5/4/2012 8:53:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Direct-Drive:
Originally Posted By AR45fan:
Originally Posted By dbbeacham:

I know some say KNS Anti-rotation pins are not a must, but I'm watching my hammer pin rotate as we speak. Thinking about getting a set or 2, although I think they look really dumb.


JP Industries makes anti-rotation pins that end in neat little button-head screws.  They are good-looking and only $9.99 a pair.  Compare them to KNS before you buy.  JP also makes a great reduced power spring set that will significantly lighten your trigger for about the same price. Since you'll be in there changing the pins you might as well upgrade the springs and keep the stock ones for spares.

JP is marketed as "anti-walk"....KNS as "anti-rotational".
Mr. Stoner would have keyed those pins if there was a problem with rotation.

Fair enough on the name but I can tell you, they don't rotate either.  As to wether or not they are necessary, that's a topic for about 87 other threads.
Link Posted: 5/4/2012 8:55:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2012 8:56:50 AM EDT by whiplash10]
To the OP - BCM, DD, Centurion, or PSA would be my top picks.

Originally Posted By shadow7874:
I somewhat disagree on the buying instead of building. Im in the process of bulding my first AR and ive learned a ton just by reading and shopping for what I want. Not only that, but once im done Ill know where every piece of my AR goes and what its supposed to do (my lower is build, just need a few more parts to finish the upper). Plus you can build a great rifle for the same price you can buy a good rifle if you shop around enough.


-Building really isn't that much cheaper anymore, it definitely isn't the first time when you need to buy vice, vice blocks, punches, gauges, torque wrench, spanner wrench, etc.
-Part of the benefit of building is customizing to your needs/preferences.  If you're new and haven't shot a great deal, how do you know you won't want to change the parts you're building with?
-Having a QUALITY factory built rifle to disassemble and learn from is invaluable IMO
-The 'newer' you are the more likely you'll be to run across something you can't fix on your own/don't know how to fix.  Despite what the internet tells you to do you may end up making your problem worse.  Having a company with good CS to back you up is great if you're a beginner.

First time around...I'll always recommend buying.
Link Posted: 5/4/2012 9:17:21 AM EDT




Originally Posted By whiplash10:



-Building really isn't that much cheaper anymore, it definitely isn't the first time when you need to buy vice, vice blocks, punches, gauges, torque wrench, spanner wrench, etc. If you buy a complete upper you dont need all that shit, BTW it will be cheaper for the tax, and its really not just about money is it, its about knowledge.

-Part of the benefit of building is customizing to your needs/preferences. If you're new and haven't shot a great deal, how do you know you won't want to change the parts you're building with? Or you could build a basic rifle, know how it works and then decide, you have a knowledge base to build from, ie know why it works/doesnt then upgrade

-Having a QUALITY factory built rifle to disassemble and learn from is invaluable IMO Putting one together is not hard, a monkey could do it, just follow the steps in the BIY tacked thread, Disassemble, you mean like the same thing you would do with a BIY rifle?, take out 2 pins puill the BCG/bolt yep too hard to do.

-The 'newer' you are the more likely you'll be to run across something you can't fix on your own/don't know how to fix. Despite what the internet tells you to do you may end up making your problem worse. Having a company with good CS to back you up is great if you're a beginner. Then you should stop posting, becuase thats why this forum is hear. You wont fuck anything up if you ask before getting the dremmel/pliars. You only pork it away when you try somthing you know nothing about. There are tons of people who started building before they bought, and are better men for it.



First time around...I'll always recommend buying. Never,
I can't believe the OMG its too hard post. I guess these guys dont change their oil or flats anymore.



OP



Buy a complete upper, get a lower and parts kit. put it together, shoot and learn how to be self suffecient vice a metrosexual that needs constant hand holding.



Link Posted: 5/4/2012 9:20:39 AM EDT




Originally Posted By dbbeacham:

I know some say KNS Anti-rotation pins are not a must, but I'm watching my hammer pin rotate as we speak. Thinking about getting a set or 2, although I think they look really dumb.




some. like the entire mil that has shoots thousands of rounds, out of thousands of rifles that has never had a problem with the pins rotating or wearing out a lower, then okay I guess.



BTW the pins do rotate, its normal
Link Posted: 5/4/2012 9:25:03 AM EDT




Originally Posted By Cycline3:

Are you really a NOOB?



Cause if that means you don't have an AR, then my advice is NOT to build one. You should have a manufactured, 100% working gun with a warranty before you build, in my opinion. You should be learning to use the gun first, not trying to figure out what you need to build one.

Like a nail or got forbide 50 cent punch?

Seriously, if you don't know the platform yet, how in *(#$ do you think you'll be able to make good judgements on what you want to build?

Build a basic gun, then upgrade. How is buying a basic gun any different than building a basic gun, beside you will know how to upgrade the parts you want.

And you won't save any money... that is a myth. yes you do its called taxes right off the top







You cna see my comments above, you do automatically save the tax and you actually learn soemthing, BTW this froum has a few thousand people tahn can usually answer any question ever thought up, usually in a few minutes 24/7

Link Posted: 5/4/2012 9:30:48 AM EDT




Originally Posted By shadow7874:

I somewhat disagree on the buying instead of building. Im in the process of building my first AR and ive learned a ton just by reading and shopping for what I want. Not only that, but once im done Ill know where every piece of my AR goes and what its supposed to do (my lower is build, just need a few more parts to finish the upper). Plus you can build a great rifle for the same price you can buy a good rifle if you shop around enough.


This is the correct answer, but you could just buy a rifle, have it malfunction 1st time out and then be out the time/money and worst of all reliant on another person to fix a problem you could have taken care of yourself.



The instant gratification that most push around here is a symptom of the decline of the US where people don't want to know they just want to do, become impatient and have to rely on other people for the fix.

Link Posted: 5/4/2012 9:31:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By whiplash10:

-Building really isn't that much cheaper anymore, it definitely isn't the first time when you need to buy vice, vice blocks, punches, gauges, torque wrench, spanner wrench, etc. If you buy a complete upper you dont need all that shit, BTW it will be cheaper for the tax, and its really not just about money is it, its about knowledge.
-Part of the benefit of building is customizing to your needs/preferences. If you're new and haven't shot a great deal, how do you know you won't want to change the parts you're building with? Or you could build a basic rifle, know how it works and then decide, you have a knowledge base to build from, ie know why it works/doesnt then upgrade
-Having a QUALITY factory built rifle to disassemble and learn from is invaluable IMO Putting one together is not hard, a monkey could do it, just follow the steps in the BIY tacked thread, Disassemble, you mean like the same thing you would do with a BIY rifle?, take out 2 pins puill the BCG/bolt yep too hard to do.
-The 'newer' you are the more likely you'll be to run across something you can't fix on your own/don't know how to fix. Despite what the internet tells you to do you may end up making your problem worse. Having a company with good CS to back you up is great if you're a beginner. Then you should stop posting, becuase thats why this forum is hear. You wont fuck anything up if you ask before getting the dremmel/pliars. You only pork it away when you try somthing you know nothing about. There are tons of people who started building before they bought, and are better men for it.

First time around...I'll always recommend buying. Never,
I can't believe the OMG its too hard post. I guess these guys dont change their oil or flats anymore.

OP

Buy a complete upper, get a lower and parts kit. put it together, shoot and learn how to be self suffecient vice a metrosexual that needs constant hand holding.



haha lol
Link Posted: 5/4/2012 9:45:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By whiplash10:

-Building really isn't that much cheaper anymore, it definitely isn't the first time when you need to buy vice, vice blocks, punches, gauges, torque wrench, spanner wrench, etc. If you buy a complete upper you dont need all that shit, BTW it will be cheaper for the tax, and its really not just about money is it, its about knowledge.
-Part of the benefit of building is customizing to your needs/preferences. If you're new and haven't shot a great deal, how do you know you won't want to change the parts you're building with? Or you could build a basic rifle, know how it works and then decide, you have a knowledge base to build from, ie know why it works/doesnt then upgrade
-Having a QUALITY factory built rifle to disassemble and learn from is invaluable IMO Putting one together is not hard, a monkey could do it, just follow the steps in the BIY tacked thread, Disassemble, you mean like the same thing you would do with a BIY rifle?, take out 2 pins puill the BCG/bolt yep too hard to do.
-The 'newer' you are the more likely you'll be to run across something you can't fix on your own/don't know how to fix. Despite what the internet tells you to do you may end up making your problem worse. Having a company with good CS to back you up is great if you're a beginner. Then you should stop posting, becuase thats why this forum is hear. You wont fuck anything up if you ask before getting the dremmel/pliars. You only pork it away when you try somthing you know nothing about. There are tons of people who started building before they bought, and are better men for it.

First time around...I'll always recommend buying. Never,
I can't believe the OMG its too hard post. I guess these guys dont change their oil or flats anymore.

OP

Buy a complete upper, get a lower and parts kit. put it together, shoot and learn how to be self suffecient vice a metrosexual that needs constant hand holding.



yeah.  That's your opinion, which could've been stated without being a complete dick.  

I've seen a number of guys fuck shit up trying to fix something they 'built'.  There's no 'correct' answer, as everyone's different.  That was just my opinion based on my experience.

And I change my oil.  Also built a BT Audi and e30 M3.  I get the 'DIY attitude', trust me.  But I didn't buy the damn cars and rip the top end apart without learning about how they were designed to run stock.  Saved me a lot of money and time in the long run.  Yes, there's forums to read and learn from, IMO those should SUPPLEMENT your current knowledge, not be your ONLY knowledge.  

Acquiring as much knowledge of a given subject before undertaking a project doesn't make anyone less of a man, just means they'd prefer to learn how to do it a different way.  Don't expect you to get that though, you seem like a 'my way or no way' type guy.
Link Posted: 5/4/2012 10:00:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2012 10:04:31 AM EDT by bending_rodriguez]
I think the point is its your money do what you want....

I myself was new to guns all together about 2 years ago.  Without firing a shot I bought a lower, lpk, stock, and complete upper.  I had the basic tools needed to do a lower.  I assembled it went to the range and shot it, only following building instructions found on ar15.com.
Then about four months later built a new lower and bought the tools needed to assemble an upper, and built a complete upper.  If you can follow directions, you can build an AR easily.  Also, I've had NO problems with both builds.  
Everything you need to know can be found on this website.

If you plan to build the upper ALMOST GUARANTEED it will be more expensive than an off the shelf rifle.  On the other hand would I personally ever buy an off the shelf AR?...HELL NO!  
There literally is no benefit to buying a pre built rack AR.....will you save some money?...sure, but still not a reason to do it lol

EDIT: I'd go with a BCM 16" barrel, or upper.  To make the decision easier....If you want the AR to look like an M4 or close to it....you'll need a KAC RAS so you'll NEED a carbine barrel to do this.  If you have no desire to do this, go with a middy.  BUT if you like the idea of an m4 clone....you'll want a 14.5 carbine barrel....but that opens up a whole new can of worms for you lol.
Link Posted: 5/4/2012 4:48:32 PM EDT
There is a whole lotta bs in this thread and not a whole lot of technical. You cannot build an AR for less than you can buy one. ITS A FLAT OUT LIE, and I am speaking as someone who has done both. In no industry in this world, are parts cheaper than final product. You cannot build a car from parts for less than its sticker price, and that's not even looking at the cost of tools or your time. And you do not have the proper tools in your regular man tool bag. You will have to buy tools.

It's also extremely foolish.

This is a weapon to bet your life on. And instead of buying one built by a pro, you're going to select random parts not tested together with no concept of what they do, and then hope you can figure it out cause some guys on arfcom said it was manlier to build it yourself. Good advice.

If you have a problem, you have nothing. Not even so much as an idea of what might be causing it. Then what? Warranty... those items off the EE don't come with a warranty buddy.

Further this idea you understand the gun better is complete BS too. You know how many LE and MIL folks are good with their guns but at the end of the day don't know a tremendous amout about the mechanics... at least as many as say building is better.

But that points out what I was alluding to earlier, you're spending time fiddling with the bit that doesn't matter, the techy part, when you should be focusing on the part that saves your life, learning to shoot it well. -> This is a weapon to bet your life on. Again all the time building and futzing over designer stocks should have been spent learning to shoot your gun, and that's not 2 mag dumps at the range.

The only people who are going to tell you to build first are the ones who value the look of their AR over its function, the ones who simply cannot be men without something to brag about.

Being a badass is knowing how to shoot your gun, not how to assemble one.

Buying a tested gun with a warranty and then focusing on learning and training with it actually is good, solid advice. So ask yourself, do you want an AR to make your junk look bigger or do you want one to save your life someday? Buy first, build later.
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 5:16:44 AM EDT
Thank you ^ the attitude on pg 1 is why i typically don't frequent the site.

"you're gay if you don't want to build your rifle"...great fucking advice
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 12:50:35 PM EDT
at the risk of getting flamed cause im a "newbie", i think the attitude of its stupid to take on a rifle build unless you own a $1500 fanboy gun is ludicrous. you dont know if the OP has any mechanical abilities or what his background is. ill let ya in on a little secret, these guns aint rocket science. i built my first one in .223, and am in the process of building my second in .50 beowulf. its very rewarding to build your own far as im concerned, course im a tech in a dealer, and have owned my own fabricating business, so you could say i am mechanicaly inclined. but that doesnt change the fact that like alot of things out there, its just nuts and bolts.

my first build didnt necessarily save me any money, but i sure got alot more for what i spent than i could of walking into a store and buying a dpms or stag or even a colt. i walked out of the place i bought everything at for less than a grand with all the parts, mega recievers, m.i. ss handguard, vltor stock, 3 mags, nice scope rings, and a real nice tactical bag(thats including sales tax). went and assembed it with some supervision from a friend, and i have a sub moa rifle that hasnt skipped a beat in a thousand rounds already. it looks good, feels good, and functions great. since then ive gone to a giessele sdg3 trigger, and it was a cinch to install because i had been all over this rifle assembling it. and that triggers F'N AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

takin on reloading next, i suppose by this rational, i should pay 40 bux a box of beo for a year?

"you trust your life on this rifle". lol. please. i know there are LEO, MIL and probably private security people on here. i know theres some guys outside of those groups that do depend on their rifle as a tool, and it could mean the difference between surviving or not. but id put money on the majority of people on this forum or any of these for that matter are more like me. this black rifle thing is a hobby or sport......

op, do what tickles your pickle man. its fun to build these things. its also fun to shoot them, so dont feel bad buying either.....

one of these days ill buy a nice assembled unit, noveske, dd, colt, etc. till then, like i said, its just nuts and bolts.
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 3:04:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cycline3:
There is a whole lotta bs in this thread and not a whole lot of technical. You cannot build an AR for less than you can buy one. ITS A FLAT OUT LIE, and I am speaking as someone who has done both. In no industry in this world, are parts cheaper than final product. You cannot build a car from parts for less than its sticker price, and that's not even looking at the cost of tools or your time. And you do not have the proper tools in your regular man tool bag. You will have to buy tools.

It's also extremely foolish.

This is a weapon to bet your life on. And instead of buying one built by a pro, you're going to select random parts not tested together with no concept of what they do, and then hope you can figure it out cause some guys on arfcom said it was manlier to build it yourself. Good advice.

If you have a problem, you have nothing. Not even so much as an idea of what might be causing it. Then what? Warranty... those items off the EE don't come with a warranty buddy.

Further this idea you understand the gun better is complete BS too. You know how many LE and MIL folks are good with their guns but at the end of the day don't know a tremendous amout about the mechanics... at least as many as say building is better.

But that points out what I was alluding to earlier, you're spending time fiddling with the bit that doesn't matter, the techy part, when you should be focusing on the part that saves your life, learning to shoot it well. -> This is a weapon to bet your life on. Again all the time building and futzing over designer stocks should have been spent learning to shoot your gun, and that's not 2 mag dumps at the range.

The only people who are going to tell you to build first are the ones who value the look of their AR over its function, the ones who simply cannot be men without something to brag about.

Being a badass is knowing how to shoot your gun, not how to assemble one.

Buying a tested gun with a warranty and then focusing on learning and training with it actually is good, solid advice. So ask yourself, do you want an AR to make your junk look bigger or do you want one to save your life someday? Buy first, build later.


In today's AR market aside from a few companies, ALL you are in fact getting is an untested weapon with a warranty. Building a car and assembling an AR are two ends of a spectrum of mechanical inclination. $150 worth of tools and a TM can assemble an AR "better" than a "pro" because the end user will most likely put more effort into the finish quality of his own product than some wage earner just meeting a quota to get paid. But believe what you want to. People will still build. People will still buy complete. I doubt what you or I think or post will stop anybody from doing either.
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 3:30:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dbbeacham:
I want to build a 16" middy carbine, my only problem is I dont know what company to go with. I'm looking for a 1:7 cromelined 5.56 NATO barrel. I really like the Spikes barres, not sure how I feel about their "optimum" profile and the CMMG barrels. I know DD has some good barrels, what other company has barrels that fit my requirements?


Why chrome lined? Take a look at this barrel.
They also sell uppers and machine the receiver face true to the bore which helps with bolt lugs.  But you can have that done for $30 plus shipping if you wanted to piece an upper together.
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 3:49:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/5/2012 3:50:55 PM EDT by DisplayName]
Originally Posted By Cycline3:
There is a whole lotta bs in this thread and not a whole lot of technical. You cannot build an AR for less than you can buy one. ITS A FLAT OUT LIE, and I am speaking as someone who has done both. In no industry in this world, are parts cheaper than final product. You cannot build a car from parts for less than its sticker price, and that's not even looking at the cost of tools or your time. And you do not have the proper tools in your regular man tool bag. You will have to buy tools.

It's also extremely foolish.

This is a weapon to bet your life on. And instead of buying one built by a pro, you're going to select random parts not tested together with no concept of what they do, and then hope you can figure it out cause some guys on arfcom said it was manlier to build it yourself. Good advice.

If you have a problem, you have nothing. Not even so much as an idea of what might be causing it. Then what? Warranty... those items off the EE don't come with a warranty buddy.

Further this idea you understand the gun better is complete BS too. You know how many LE and MIL folks are good with their guns but at the end of the day don't know a tremendous amout about the mechanics... at least as many as say building is better.

But that points out what I was alluding to earlier, you're spending time fiddling with the bit that doesn't matter, the techy part, when you should be focusing on the part that saves your life, learning to shoot it well. -> This is a weapon to bet your life on. Again all the time building and futzing over designer stocks should have been spent learning to shoot your gun, and that's not 2 mag dumps at the range.

The only people who are going to tell you to build first are the ones who value the look of their AR over its function, the ones who simply cannot be men without something to brag about.

Being a badass is knowing how to shoot your gun, not how to assemble one.

Buying a tested gun with a warranty and then focusing on learning and training with it actually is good, solid advice. So ask yourself, do you want an AR to make your junk look bigger or do you want one to save your life someday? Buy first, build later.


Maybe he knows somebody that has everything who can do it for him, like his FFL?  Even so it's not hard to do.  The fact is that if you learn enough about AR's you can do better on you own, that includes buying a complete upper or piecing it together yourself.  He has to get a rifle before he sights it in and shoots it.  Then he will be asking about the improved battle sight zero.  http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/328143_RIBZ_____Revised_Improved_Battlesight_Zero__now_with_down_loadable_50_yard_zeroing_target_.html
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 4:08:51 PM EDT



Originally Posted By whiplash10:


I've seen a number of guys fuck shit up trying to fix something they 'built'.  There's no 'correct' answer, as everyone's different.  That was just my opinion based on my experience.





well I'm approaching number "80" ARs that I have gotten guys to build, no drama and when they are done they can change/upgrade and do what they want. Then again if you have "seen a number of guys fuck shit up" concerning a AR, your mingling with morons.



Something along the lines of "teach a man to fish vice give him fishes", I would rather teach a man to assemble ARs, than just buy one and plink with it. If he has confidence, then he will show others, build more than one, and generally spread the wealth.
 
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 4:14:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/5/2012 4:15:26 PM EDT by Muad]





Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By whiplash10:


I've seen a number of guys fuck shit up trying to fix something they 'built'.  There's no 'correct' answer, as everyone's different.  That was just my opinion based on my experience.








well I'm approaching number "80" ARs that I have gotten guys to build, no drama and when they are done they can change/upgrade and do what they want. Then again if you have "seen a number of guys fuck shit up" concerning a AR, your mingling with morons.





Something along the lines of "teach a man to fish vice give him fishes", I would rather teach a man to assemble ARs, than just buy one and plink with it. If he has confidence, then he will show others, build more than one, and generally spread the wealth.
 



Agreed.

 






I've coached several of my buddies to build, or partial build (lower + a PSA upper), and those rifles run like clocks. It's not rocket science, and you don't even "need" to have the proper tools; although they make it MUCH easier.







Having built them, I bet they feel much more confident about their rifles, and if some issues were to arise, I bet they'd have a better chance of fixing it themselves than someone who has zero experience and bought an off the shelf rifle.







Not that I have a problem with factory built rifles, I promote many brands like Colt, Rock River, etc. But, I think it's a great idea for guys to at least build a lower.




ETA: sepllin'

 
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 4:14:41 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Cycline3:


There is a whole lotta bs in this thread and not a whole lot of technical. You cannot build an AR for less than you can buy one. ITS A FLAT OUT LIE, and I am speaking as someone who has done both. In no industry in this world, are parts cheaper than final product. You cannot build a car from parts for less than its sticker price, and that's not even looking at the cost of tools or your time. And you do not have the proper tools in your regular man tool bag. You will have to buy tools.



It's also extremely foolish.



This is a weapon to bet your life on. And instead of buying one built by a pro, you're going to select random parts not tested together with no concept of what they do, and then hope you can figure it out cause some guys on arfcom said it was manlier to build it yourself. Good advice.



If you have a problem, you have nothing. Not even so much as an idea of what might be causing it. Then what? Warranty... those items off the EE don't come with a warranty buddy.



Further this idea you understand the gun better is complete BS too. You know how many LE and MIL folks are good with their guns but at the end of the day don't know a tremendous amout about the mechanics... at least as many as say building is better.



But that points out what I was alluding to earlier, you're spending time fiddling with the bit that doesn't matter, the techy part, when you should be focusing on the part that saves your life, learning to shoot it well. -> This is a weapon to bet your life on. Again all the time building and futzing over designer stocks should have been spent learning to shoot your gun, and that's not 2 mag dumps at the range.



The only people who are going to tell you to build first are the ones who value the look of their AR over its function, the ones who simply cannot be men without something to brag about.



Being a badass is knowing how to shoot your gun, not how to assemble one.



Buying a tested gun with a warranty and then focusing on learning and training with it actually is good, solid advice. So ask yourself, do you want an AR to make your junk look bigger or do you want one to save your life someday? Buy first, build later.
You might have posted one of the dumbest responses Ive read on this site. I was gonna to retort to each sentence but you are not worth the time.



You compared cops to knowing whats up- I laughed my ass off





Okay newbis, you win. Wonder why most of the guys with knowledge have left the site. Hmmm.



 





 
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 4:38:30 PM EDT
New guys look at "join dates" there is a reason they are under our names.

Excellent advise is;
Buy a complete upper from one of the following in the configuration that you want
Colt
LMT
DD
Noveske
Bravo Co
These are in no specific order, there are other good companies out there.  The ones listed are pro-grade and will last a very long time.
Buy whatever mil-spec lower your local gun shop has.
Accessorize with a RDS(aimpoint) and buy lots of ammo.
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 4:44:10 PM EDT
A friend at work bought a Spikes carbine upper from AIM a few weeks ago. It has chrome lining and 1-7" twist. Try looking at AIM for an upper.
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 5:47:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cycline3:
Are you really a NOOB?

Cause if that means you don't have an AR, then my advice is NOT to build one. You should have a manufactured, 100% working gun with a warranty before you build, in my opinion. You should be learning to use the gun first, not trying to figure out what you need to build one. Seriously, if you don't know the platform yet, how in *(#$ do you think you'll be able to make good judgements on what you want to build? And you won't save any money... that is a myth.

Building is fun, and the people here are great to help and I recommend you do that... after you have a working gun and have shot it, trained with it and have put in the time you should...



I couldn't agree more!!!!!  I just bought my first AR 15 (S&W M&P OR (Optics Ready))  I bought a quad rail, am looking for flip up sights and a vertical grip with light.  I'm also looking at different optics for it.  BTW, can anyone tell me how far the flip up sights will allow me to shoot accurately (I've heard everything from 50-200 yards)?  However, I couldn't even imagine building one from the ground up.  Actually, I probably never will.  Building just doesn't appeal to me.  It's great that you want to build one.  However, as the above poster noted, you really need to buy a good AR, train with it and get to know it...inside and out!
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 8:25:15 PM EDT
Agreed building is fun you will learn so much, as to the orignal question I have a spikes and a DD mid length systems.  I have owned a RRA Carbine and a Delton Carbine and a Stag Carbine system as well.  I love the mids allot more than the Carbines.  My most acurate rifle has a 1-8 twist shooting 62gr followed by my spikes 1-7 shooting 62gr.  Pick your posion either way youll be happy, enjoy!
Link Posted: 5/5/2012 10:26:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/5/2012 10:34:08 PM EDT by soapboxpreacher]
I looked at building a Middy (14.5) BCM.  Same issues...stuff was always out.  This is what I was trying to achieve, I was green and would have been swapping parts out...Below is used merely for an example but lets say you wanted a 14.5" middy, 2-stage trigger, nice stock, flipup sights, a brake, and so on this is what I roughly put together with current prices:

14.5" BCM with DD Lite 12" ($875.00) rail is good but not my favorite.
Troy HK BattleSights ($199.00)
Spikes Lower/Buffer & tube, trigger guard, ErgoGrip, hardware, Basic trigger ($349) Nice but wish I could get it without the basic trigger...although nice to have a combat trigger
BC 1.5 Comp ($189) Awesome
LMT SOPMOD stock ($297) Awesome
Geissele Trigger ($230) Awesome
DD QD Swivel ($47)
BCM Gunfighter ($45) Awesome
BCG ($150)

$2382!!

I looked at doing this same build idea a year plus ago and passed on it..it was getting expensive...so I solved my problem..I bought a KAC SR15E3 instead for 1850 and was done with it!  Better Rail, lighter, fully ambi!!, better BCG/Bolt, Better Sights, More QD Mounting options...trigger is a 2 stage but not a Geissele.  Yeah it isnt a 14.5" either...but I feel I am not missing anything!!  I added a BCM GF, BC 1.5 Muzzle and a Hogue grip so I am close to 2k into this rifle and in my eyes this is significantly better than what I would have built.  That isnt necessarily what I was going to build part for part but more of an example of what road I was on...it was a quick example to show you that I would have spent more cabbage and the result in IMHO would have been a inferior/lesser of a rifle.  Not to be a knight snob but it is crafted better, fit and finish is really stellar plus the innovative rail and ambidextrous features make it all an DI AR can be...once again IMHO.  When I was considering building I didnt even know what or who Knight Arms was...till a buddies said..."If you are going to spend that much to get the rifle you desire there is one that is complete and pretty close to what you want for less"!  So many knock KAC for cost but to do the same at that level you are better off buying the knight.  There are other rifles out there I love and I would still like to build one some day but I honestly dont think I am missing something considered what I ended up with and the price for the whole package.  I wanted a rail, 2-stage and so on so If you dont need a rail this is really a worthless point but I think you know what I am getting at.  I looked at smartgunner as an option and he was really good and bundling but the reputation there is not so good.  I also looked at Rainiers Arms complete rifle....and loved it...it is $1500 and loaded to the gills with the right stuff!!!  It is one hell of a rifle for the money and looks to be built very well 14.5" and 6.5lbs!!!  Oh and the rail is bad ass!!









Link Posted: 5/5/2012 10:57:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/5/2012 11:21:41 PM EDT by bdawg998]
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By Cycline3:
There is a whole lotta bs in this thread and not a whole lot of technical. You cannot build an AR for less than you can buy one. ITS A FLAT OUT LIE, and I am speaking as someone who has done both. In no industry in this world, are parts cheaper than final product. You cannot build a car from parts for less than its sticker price, and that's not even looking at the cost of tools or your time. And you do not have the proper tools in your regular man tool bag. You will have to buy tools.

It's also extremely foolish.

This is a weapon to bet your life on. And instead of buying one built by a pro, you're going to select random parts not tested together with no concept of what they do, and then hope you can figure it out cause some guys on arfcom said it was manlier to build it yourself. Good advice.

If you have a problem, you have nothing. Not even so much as an idea of what might be causing it. Then what? Warranty... those items off the EE don't come with a warranty buddy.

Further this idea you understand the gun better is complete BS too. You know how many LE and MIL folks are good with their guns but at the end of the day don't know a tremendous amout about the mechanics... at least as many as say building is better.

But that points out what I was alluding to earlier, you're spending time fiddling with the bit that doesn't matter, the techy part, when you should be focusing on the part that saves your life, learning to shoot it well. -> This is a weapon to bet your life on. Again all the time building and futzing over designer stocks should have been spent learning to shoot your gun, and that's not 2 mag dumps at the range.

The only people who are going to tell you to build first are the ones who value the look of their AR over its function, the ones who simply cannot be men without something to brag about.

Being a badass is knowing how to shoot your gun, not how to assemble one.

Buying a tested gun with a warranty and then focusing on learning and training with it actually is good, solid advice. So ask yourself, do you want an AR to make your junk look bigger or do you want one to save your life someday? Buy first, build later.
You might have posted one of the dumbest responses Ive read on this site. I was gonna to retort to each sentence but you are not worth the time.

You compared cops to knowing whats up- I laughed my ass off


Okay newbis, you win. Wonder why most of the guys with knowledge have left the site. Hmmm.


I agree with this. That is one of the stupidest responses I've ever seen.
Obviously no one should ever learn how to do anything for themselves according to you.
And tell me where you could find a rifle with these specs for cheaper than this. Add $20 for the transfer on the lower and you're at $811 for a heck of a rifle.




To stay on topic, OP, I would highly recommend Palmetto State Armory. They have what you're looking for at a great price. Definitely cheaper than you can buy a complete rifle for. Depending on where you are in the state, there are those of us who can help you with assembly if you do not have the tools or just want someone to watch and make sure you do it properly.
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 3:31:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2012 4:58:57 AM EDT by dnilson]
There is so much arguing going on, which is one of the reasons I wouldn't dare consider building and getting advice from some of you guys.  Many of you think if you don't want to build, you must be some kind of moron/metrosexual/dick.  Well, I'm certainly none of those things,  (actually I'm a woman).  To be honest, I work 60+ hours a week and just don't have the time or desire to build.  And no, I don't change my own oil or change my own tires.  I'd rather pay someone else to do those things, just like I'd rather pay someone else to build my AR.  I have more important, interesting things to do with my time.  Besides, I kind of like the idea of having a lifetime warranty!
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 4:50:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2012 4:54:58 AM EDT by dnilson]
I come to this forum to learn about ARs, not to learn how to build one.  However, there's nothing wrong with that, but insulting others serves no useful purpose.  This forum would be a much better place if the focus was on learning...not bashing each other.  To be honest, I have LOTS of questions, but am afraid to ask them at the risk of being called stupid, a moron, etc.
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 5:21:25 AM EDT
One last thing...to the OP...there is a thread for building your own AR.  Why didn't you post it there?  To the Mods...PLEASE move this thread to the right location!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 5:41:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2012 5:43:32 AM EDT by whiplash10]
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By whiplash10:
I've seen a number of guys fuck shit up trying to fix something they 'built'.  There's no 'correct' answer, as everyone's different.  That was just my opinion based on my experience.


well I'm approaching number "80" ARs that I have gotten guys to build, no drama and when they are done they can change/upgrade and do what they want. Then again if you have "seen a number of guys fuck shit up" concerning a AR, your mingling with morons.

Something along the lines of "teach a man to fish vice give him fishes", I would rather teach a man to assemble ARs, than just buy one and plink with it. If he has confidence, then he will show others, build more than one, and generally spread the wealth.


 


Mingling with minors? Sorry I have no control of the local clientle at the local range. The fact I said I had 'seen' a number of builds screwed up didn't mean I had helped build.  Must be nice to hang with folks of your esteemed stature?  How's the weather up there on your pedestal?

Yeah I've taught a number of guys to do it right the first time IN PERSON, and they've been fine. But for every guy that'll do it right there's 10 high functioning retards who will screw it up th first time.

Bottom line, there's no right and wrong in the debate as everyone's circumstances are different.  But it's fun reading emotional responses from guys when they encounter a differing opinion. Way they handle it says a lot about the man behind the username...
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 6:52:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By soapboxpreacher:
I looked at building a Middy (14.5) BCM.  Same issues...stuff was always out.  This is what I was trying to achieve, I was green and would have been swapping parts out...Below is used merely for an example but lets say you wanted a 14.5" middy, 2-stage trigger, nice stock, flipup sights, a brake, and so on this is what I roughly put together with current prices:

14.5" BCM with DD Lite 12" ($875.00) rail is good but not my favorite.  bought individually - 14.5 bcm upper (assembled yourself around 400+ dd lite rail 330) shipping +20=750
Troy HK BattleSights ($199.00)
Spikes Lower/Buffer & tube, trigger guard, ErgoGrip, hardware, Basic trigger ($349) Nice but wish I could get it without the basic trigger...although nice to have a combat trigger
BC 1.5 Comp ($189) Awesome  -brand new 130
LMT SOPMOD stock ($297) Awesome  -b5 sopmod 100
Geissele Trigger ($230) Awesome  skip this on a battle rifle (I assume its not a bench rifle based on you wanting a 14.5" and actually settling for a 16"
DD QD Swivel ($47)
BCM Gunfighter ($45) Awesome
BCG ($150)

$2382!!
$1770 for the rifle you WANTED
I looked at doing this same build idea a year plus ago and passed on it..it was getting expensive...so I solved my problem..I bought a KAC SR15E3 instead for 1850 and was done with it!  Better Rail, lighter, fully ambi!!, better BCG/Bolt, Better Sights, More QD Mounting options...trigger is a 2 stage but not a Geissele.  Yeah it isnt a 14.5" either...but I feel I am not missing anything!!  I added a BCM GF, BC 1.5 Muzzle and a Hogue grip so I am close to 2k into this rifle and in my eyes this is significantly better than what I would have built.  That isnt necessarily what I was going to build part for part but more of an example of what road I was on...it was a quick example to show you that I would have spent more cabbage and the result in IMHO would have been a inferior/lesser of a rifle.  Not to be a knight snob but it is crafted better, fit and finish is really stellar plus the innovative rail and ambidextrous features make it all an DI AR can be...once again IMHO.  When I was considering building I didnt even know what or who Knight Arms was...till a buddies said..."If you are going to spend that much to get the rifle you desire there is one that is complete and pretty close to what you want for less"!  So many knock KAC for cost but to do the same at that level you are better off buying the knight.  There are other rifles out there I love and I would still like to build one some day but I honestly dont think I am missing something considered what I ended up with and the price for the whole package.  I wanted a rail, 2-stage and so on so If you dont need a rail this is really a worthless point but I think you know what I am getting at.  I looked at smartgunner as an option and he was really good and bundling but the reputation there is not so good.  I also looked at Rainiers Arms complete rifle....and loved it...it is $1500 and loaded to the gills with the right stuff!!!  It is one hell of a rifle for the money and looks to be built very well 14.5" and 6.5lbs!!!  Oh and the rail is bad ass!!




Those are all new prices which can be found from site vendors and most with free shipping.
This is not to argue, Id definitely be happy with that KAC rifle.  I just wanted to show that it could have been done for cheaper.
When your building a basic a rifle it is NEVER worth it money wise to build it, a basic rifle can be gotten for CHEAP...like a S&W M&P which can be gotten for under 700.  

Also the OP didnt post this in the build it yourself section because he wasn't asking for build it yourself help....and this topic wont be moved.
He asked for help in making decisions-hence a discussion was started...which is where this thread is located, in the discussion forum.
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 8:21:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bending_rodriguez:
Originally Posted By soapboxpreacher:
I looked at building a Middy (14.5) BCM.  Same issues...stuff was always out.  This is what I was trying to achieve, I was green and would have been swapping parts out...Below is used merely for an example but lets say you wanted a 14.5" middy, 2-stage trigger, nice stock, flipup sights, a brake, and so on this is what I roughly put together with current prices:

14.5" BCM with DD Lite 12" ($875.00) rail is good but not my favorite.  bought individually - 14.5 bcm upper (assembled yourself around 400+ dd lite rail 330) shipping +20=750
Troy HK BattleSights ($199.00)
Spikes Lower/Buffer & tube, trigger guard, ErgoGrip, hardware, Basic trigger ($349) Nice but wish I could get it without the basic trigger...although nice to have a combat trigger
BC 1.5 Comp ($189) Awesome  -brand new 130
LMT SOPMOD stock ($297) Awesome  -b5 sopmod 100
Geissele Trigger ($230) Awesome  skip this on a battle rifle (I assume its not a bench rifle based on you wanting a 14.5" and actually settling for a 16"

DD QD Swivel ($47)
BCM Gunfighter ($45) Awesome
BCG ($150)

$2382!!
$1770 for the rifle you WANTED
I looked at doing this same build idea a year plus ago and passed on it..it was getting expensive...so I solved my problem..I bought a KAC SR15E3 instead for 1850 and was done with it!  Better Rail, lighter, fully ambi!!, better BCG/Bolt, Better Sights, More QD Mounting options...trigger is a 2 stage but not a Geissele.  Yeah it isnt a 14.5" either...but I feel I am not missing anything!!  I added a BCM GF, BC 1.5 Muzzle and a Hogue grip so I am close to 2k into this rifle and in my eyes this is significantly better than what I would have built.  That isnt necessarily what I was going to build part for part but more of an example of what road I was on...it was a quick example to show you that I would have spent more cabbage and the result in IMHO would have been a inferior/lesser of a rifle.  Not to be a knight snob but it is crafted better, fit and finish is really stellar plus the innovative rail and ambidextrous features make it all an DI AR can be...once again IMHO.  When I was considering building I didnt even know what or who Knight Arms was...till a buddies said..."If you are going to spend that much to get the rifle you desire there is one that is complete and pretty close to what you want for less"!  So many knock KAC for cost but to do the same at that level you are better off buying the knight.  There are other rifles out there I love and I would still like to build one some day but I honestly dont think I am missing something considered what I ended up with and the price for the whole package.  I wanted a rail, 2-stage and so on so If you dont need a rail this is really a worthless point but I think you know what I am getting at.  I looked at smartgunner as an option and he was really good and bundling but the reputation there is not so good.  I also looked at Rainiers Arms complete rifle....and loved it...it is $1500 and loaded to the gills with the right stuff!!!  It is one hell of a rifle for the money and looks to be built very well 14.5" and 6.5lbs!!!  Oh and the rail is bad ass!!




Those are all new prices which can be found from site vendors and most with free shipping.
This is not to argue, Id definitely be happy with that KAC rifle.  I just wanted to show that it could have been done for cheaper.
When your building a basic a rifle it is NEVER worth it money wise to build it, a basic rifle can be gotten for CHEAP...like a S&W M&P which can be gotten for under 700.  

Also the OP didnt post this in the build it yourself section because he wasn't asking for build it yourself help....and this topic wont be moved.
He asked for help in making decisions-hence a discussion was started...which is where this thread is located, in the discussion forum.


Those prices are off of BCM sight, Smartgunner, and other..all where free shipping.  Nice find on the b5 stock...forgot about that stock entirely...thought they go sued, I wouldnt skip the Geissele...have shot a number of them and they are worth it.  Even if it were at 1700 that rifle doesnt compare to the KAC.  The 189 for the BC includes Pinning...on a 14.5" you need to pin it.   For comparison taking out the Geissele makes it less of an apples to apples comparison which is really what this is.  

I hear ya on the OP but he stated he is a noob in the title...I am merely presenting two directions...one to build and one to buy.  The cost and end results.  I have a good amount of experience at this point and I still personally wouldnt build add the fact that he is a noob...he will need tools and so on that arent factored into my price for building...borrowing is assuming alot...not one of my friends has tools to assemble the castle nut, barrel, punch, or a vise to hold it.  It isnt much to get but it adds up.    
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 8:33:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2012 8:37:59 AM EDT by bending_rodriguez]
Originally Posted By soapboxpreacher:
Originally Posted By bending_rodriguez:
Originally Posted By soapboxpreacher:
I looked at building a Middy (14.5) BCM.  Same issues...stuff was always out.  This is what I was trying to achieve, I was green and would have been swapping parts out...Below is used merely for an example but lets say you wanted a 14.5" middy, 2-stage trigger, nice stock, flipup sights, a brake, and so on this is what I roughly put together with current prices:

14.5" BCM with DD Lite 12" ($875.00) rail is good but not my favorite.  bought individually - 14.5 bcm upper (assembled yourself around 400+ dd lite rail 330) shipping +20=750
Troy HK BattleSights ($199.00)
Spikes Lower/Buffer & tube, trigger guard, ErgoGrip, hardware, Basic trigger ($349) Nice but wish I could get it without the basic trigger...although nice to have a combat trigger
BC 1.5 Comp ($189) Awesome  -brand new 130
LMT SOPMOD stock ($297) Awesome  -b5 sopmod 100
Geissele Trigger ($230) Awesome  skip this on a battle rifle (I assume its not a bench rifle based on you wanting a 14.5" and actually settling for a 16"

DD QD Swivel ($47)
BCM Gunfighter ($45) Awesome
BCG ($150)

$2382!!
$1770 for the rifle you WANTED
I looked at doing this same build idea a year plus ago and passed on it..it was getting expensive...so I solved my problem..I bought a KAC SR15E3 instead for 1850 and was done with it!  Better Rail, lighter, fully ambi!!, better BCG/Bolt, Better Sights, More QD Mounting options...trigger is a 2 stage but not a Geissele.  Yeah it isnt a 14.5" either...but I feel I am not missing anything!!  I added a BCM GF, BC 1.5 Muzzle and a Hogue grip so I am close to 2k into this rifle and in my eyes this is significantly better than what I would have built.  That isnt necessarily what I was going to build part for part but more of an example of what road I was on...it was a quick example to show you that I would have spent more cabbage and the result in IMHO would have been a inferior/lesser of a rifle.  Not to be a knight snob but it is crafted better, fit and finish is really stellar plus the innovative rail and ambidextrous features make it all an DI AR can be...once again IMHO.  When I was considering building I didnt even know what or who Knight Arms was...till a buddies said..."If you are going to spend that much to get the rifle you desire there is one that is complete and pretty close to what you want for less"!  So many knock KAC for cost but to do the same at that level you are better off buying the knight.  There are other rifles out there I love and I would still like to build one some day but I honestly dont think I am missing something considered what I ended up with and the price for the whole package.  I wanted a rail, 2-stage and so on so If you dont need a rail this is really a worthless point but I think you know what I am getting at.  I looked at smartgunner as an option and he was really good and bundling but the reputation there is not so good.  I also looked at Rainiers Arms complete rifle....and loved it...it is $1500 and loaded to the gills with the right stuff!!!  It is one hell of a rifle for the money and looks to be built very well 14.5" and 6.5lbs!!!  Oh and the rail is bad ass!!




Those are all new prices which can be found from site vendors and most with free shipping.
This is not to argue, Id definitely be happy with that KAC rifle.  I just wanted to show that it could have been done for cheaper.
When your building a basic a rifle it is NEVER worth it money wise to build it, a basic rifle can be gotten for CHEAP...like a S&W M&P which can be gotten for under 700.  

Also the OP didnt post this in the build it yourself section because he wasn't asking for build it yourself help....and this topic wont be moved.
He asked for help in making decisions-hence a discussion was started...which is where this thread is located, in the discussion forum.


Those prices are off of BCM sight, Smartgunner, and other..all where free shipping.  Nice find on the b5 stock...forgot about that stock entirely...thought they go sued, I wouldnt skip the Geissele...have shot a number of them and they are worth it.  Even if it were at 1700 that rifle doesnt compare to the KAC.  The 189 for the BC includes Pinning...on a 14.5" you need to pin it.   For comparison taking out the Geissele makes it less of an apples to apples comparison which is really what this is.  

I hear ya on the OP but he stated he is a noob in the title...I am merely presenting two directions...one to build and one to buy.  The cost and end results.  I have a good amount of experience at this point and I still personally wouldnt build add the fact that he is a noob...he will need tools and so on that arent factored into my price for building...borrowing is assuming alot...not one of my friends has tools to assemble the castle nut, barrel, punch, or a vise to hold it.  It isnt much to get but it adds up.    



Yea I didnt think of the pinning....it cost me 35 to pin it....
its funny the build you listed out is almost identical to my latest build and with the optic I'm around 2400 into this rifle (surefire light also)
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BCM 14.5 middy barrel
DD 12.0 lite rail
mega upper receiver
mega lower receiver
MI lo pro gas block
BCE 1.5 pinned
BCM gunfighter
BCM BCG
troy front sight
matech rear sight
b5 sopmod
moe grip
psa lpk
eotech 553
surefire m300a
kac vfg
magpul xtm and ladder covers

But I think your post is one of the most helpful answers to the OP
it shows what can be done by building and by buying, and there are no asshole remarks in your post.

Heres A and heres B, its your money do what YOU want.

EDIT: the purple elastics have since been removed for a band of bicycle inner tube
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 9:27:22 AM EDT
Thanks bending...appreciate the open-mindedness.  Forums seem to be so full of bitter disagreements.
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 7:07:43 PM EDT
Ask all your questions, there is some very good knowledge floating around.
The bitterness stems from those who have zero experience and knowledge and preach to others.
Some should teach and some should listen.
Link Posted: 5/13/2012 9:03:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cycline3:
Are you really a NOOB?

Cause if that means you don't have an AR, then my advice is NOT to build one. You should have a manufactured, 100% working gun with a warranty before you build, in my opinion. You should be learning to use the gun first, not trying to figure out what you need to build one. Seriously, if you don't know the platform yet, how in *(#$ do you think you'll be able to make good judgements on what you want to build? And you won't save any money... that is a myth.

Building is fun, and the people here are great to help and I recommend you do that... after you have a working gun and have shot it, trained with it and have put in the time you should...



Let me set things straight. I'm a Marine, have shot expert multiple times, very accurate at 500 yards. Did I mention 2 tours to Iraq? I have an A4 clone, which I've build the lower myself and works just fine. Trust me, I know how to handle a M16/AR-15.  And yes it was cheaper to build it myself, fancy tools are not required they just make the job easier/quicker. Build it saved me paying FET, which paid for the fancy tools that I just got to build a few more rifles. As far as the NOOB thing, I was referring to building rifles not shooting them. I've done my research like the next guy. I'm just simply trying to figure out which barrel to go with. After talking to some people,I've narrowed my choices down, which was the purpose of this thread. Still debating which barrel to go with though.

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