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Posted: 9/25/2004 4:33:07 PM EST
Im new here and been lurking for a few months, i searched a bit but didnt really find what i was looking for.

Question: i notice you all seem to like the remington ammo and Winchester Ranger. What is your findings with the OTC federal hyrdrashok?

Question 2: Is it true that fireing hollow points or +P ammo will ruin your barrel or wear it out faster?? Im mainly concerned with 9mm, .357, and 38spl rounds.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 7:34:38 PM EST
HydraShok is good ammo. Many Police Depts around here issue it.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 9:59:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By SFR:
Im new here and been lurking for a few months, i searched a bit but didnt really find what i was looking for.

Question: i notice you all seem to like the remington ammo and Winchester Ranger. What is your findings with the OTC federal hyrdrashok?

Question 2: Is it true that fireing hollow points or +P ammo will ruin your barrel or wear it out faster?? Im mainly concerned with 9mm, .357, and 38spl rounds.

Thanks.



Um, no. HP's won't wear any faster than anything else. Why would you think that? If the bullet is unplated/unjacketed steel, it would wear your barrel faster but almost all HP's rounds are copper or brass jacketed. The Winchester Sivlertip uses aluminum or something in it's jacket.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 11:27:58 AM EST
I work at outdoor world, in the gun range and i have heard these rumors from a growing number of people, talking about shooting HP and +P rounds will ruin the barrel of a gun faster then normal rounds, something to do with the heat and pressures. i disreguard most of this as nonsense. but i figured i would run it by some of you guys.

Example: Shoot 1 has a Kimber with 5 boxes of golden sabre, shooter 2 speaks up talking about how that will wear out his barrel and he should be useing FMJ for targets. Shooter 1 repies i wanna shoot what i carry.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 11:58:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 12:53:19 PM EST
Yes, check out those links provided by Troy. There's a wealth of knowledge contained within the ammo oracle that give you a good idea of the mechanisms needed in order to have an effective self defense load. And the "Better Performing Loads for Self Defense is tacked up at the top of the board. I started that one off with the hope that we could narrow down the best loads available for the most commonly used self defense calibers. Here is a brief rundown for your particular calibers:

.38 special

If you have the short 2" barrel snub-nose revolvers, nothing is going to offer exceptional performance due to the short length of the barrel and slower velocity. But there are some ammo that performs better than others from these weapons. The all lead 158 gr +P hollow points have long been a favorite in this caliber. The best of these is the Remington version. In all the testing I have seen the Remington outperforms the offerings from Winchester and Federal. Inbare gel tests, these offer good expansion and adequate penetration. But keep in mind that these bullets are an older design and have a tendency to clog with fabric when fired through heavier layers of clothing. Therefore in Winter modes of dress, you may not get much expansion from them.

And while seeming somewhat foolish, the 148 gr lead wadcutters are also a decent defense load for the 2" barrel .38's. Granted, they aren't what I'd consider ideal by any means, but consider this. Most .38 special loads do not expand anyway when fired from such short barrels (just not enough velocity to make them open up). But the large flat edge does more damage than a pointed nose hollow point that doesn't expand. Therefore in Winter, when heavy clothing is likely to be encountered, I would prefer to have the 148 gr wadcutters, which will at least cut a pretty nasty wound channel than a tapered HP that's not going to expand anyway. Also picked up in this tradeoff is a far more mild load as far as recoil goes. That should allow for faster follow-up shots. Plus, it offers ideal penetration.

Perhaps the most ideal of all available loads is the fairly new Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P that was developed specifically for the NYPD to give them better performance out of their snubby .38's. Granted, I am not a big .38 special fan, so I haven't paid the closest attention to how the testing of this load has gone. But from what I have seen, it seems these loads give you expansion up into the .50" to .60" range with about 12" of penetration. It also seems to do well through 4 layers of denim, so chances are this load will not suffer the same issues of "bullet clogging" and failure to expand through heavier clothing as older HP bullets. But again, remember this is a fairly new load. And I have only seen limited data, so I will not totally recommend it just yet until someone with more knowledge than I comments on it and gives it the ok. But it looks like a very good load from what I've seen. Just remember though, this was developed for short barrel .38's and may actually over-expand from 4" barrels and offer inadequate penetration. I have no proof of this, but it's just a strong theory I have based on it's design and performance.

Now, as far as the .357, I am not a huge fan of it either. Since most police departments stopped carrying it by the early 90's, few of the better defensive loads that have come along since have been adapted to that caliber. Therefore .357 ammo for the most part still sits where it did at that time period. In other words, it's really lacking in development and there are far superior loads available for 9mm, .49 and .45 ACP. But with that said, Winchester Partition Gold 180 gr JHP has in the testing I've seen performed very well. It penetrates well and expands well. It's expensive, but it is a more modern design. For the .357 magnum (especially full size revolvers), this would be my load of choice. Forget the crap you hear about the Federal 125 hr JHP, as this load doesn't penetrate deep enouugh, doesn't expand all that impressively to begin with and even has a tendency to fragment, which is a very bad thing when it comes to handgun ammo.

As for the 9mm? Well, fortunately it's popularity means it is in the forefront of new ammo designs and testing. There are a number of good loads out there for this caliber. My favorites are as follows:

Winchester Ranger 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger 127 gr +P+
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P

There are also a number of good loadings made under the Federal Tactical label (note, this is not the Hydra-Shok) that also perform very well. But these tend to be very hard to find for the non-LEO.

That about sums it up the best I know how. To answer your original question, there is far better ammo available to us these days than Federal Hydra-Shok. All of the faults with the old Hydra-Shok have been elminated from today's best loads.

I hope this has been helpful.

-CH
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 1:04:08 PM EST
great info guys, thanks. i hear alot of crap from shooters and the tire kickers, just trying to keep up with the "real" facts and weed out the rumors.

thanks
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