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Posted: 7/20/2004 1:17:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/20/2004 1:17:42 PM EST by mongo001]
[picture of me flexing] I AM THE FSB REMOVAL MASTER!! [/picture of me flexing]

I just got in one of those special run 16" Bushmaster 1/7 HBAR barrels (from knightone - flawless transaction - much appreciated) and it is destined to replace the 1/9 HBAR in my RECCE clone.



Anyway, I just removed the FSB, so that the muzzle can be threaded. From barrel out of box to FSB and barrel nut removed was less than 5 min. Damn, I wish I could shoot a video so that you all could see how easy this operation actually is. The keys are to hit the small side of the taper pin and hit them HARD the first and second time. I left one TINY little ding on one of the pin areas, but nothing even noticable and easily covered up with a cold blue pen. Doesn't matter in this case, as the FSB will not be used.

Sorry, I'm just a little giddy for finally getting the barrel I wanted for the RECCE clone. I had to post something.
Link Posted: 7/20/2004 1:21:59 PM EST
I am preparing to do my first barrel swap, I am a little nervous about removing the FSB. I also will have to remove a P4, so wish me luck!
Link Posted: 7/20/2004 1:58:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By mongo001:
The keys are to hit the small side of the taper pin and hit them HARD the first and second time.



I did that - with a 3lb hammer. Took alot more than 2 hits per pin. My bushy 1:7 HBAR was a real bitch. Didn't have any problems with the Lightweight however.
Link Posted: 7/20/2004 2:07:17 PM EST
Damn! That is a nice rifle, mongo!!

Well done.
Link Posted: 7/20/2004 2:13:27 PM EST
muzzle device?
Link Posted: 7/20/2004 2:13:58 PM EST
I agree. Your rifle is purdy!

Sammy
Link Posted: 7/20/2004 2:26:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/20/2004 2:27:26 PM EST by cnorton]
You are the master


BTW Nice rifle.
Link Posted: 7/20/2004 2:29:24 PM EST
Brownell's has "cup tipped" punches especially designed to remove/re-set these rounded-top FSB tapper pins.
I've used them and they are well worth the small expense.
Also consider a brass hammer for less bounce.
Link Posted: 7/20/2004 6:23:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By SPR-Mk12-Mod0:
muzzle device?



Custom Ops Inc compatible device made by a guy in PRK. Found it on ebay.
Link Posted: 7/20/2004 8:37:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By mongo001:
[picture of me flexing] I AM THE FSB REMOVAL MASTER!! [/picture of me flexing]

I just got in one of those special run 16" Bushmaster 1/7 HBAR barrels (from knightone - flawless transaction - much appreciated) and it is destined to replace the 1/9 HBAR in my RECCE clone.

www.hunt101.com/img/170359.JPG

Anyway, I just removed the FSB, so that the muzzle can be threaded. From barrel out of box to FSB and barrel nut removed was less than 5 min. Damn, I wish I could shoot a video so that you all could see how easy this operation actually is. The keys are to hit the small side of the taper pin and hit them HARD the first and second time. I left one TINY little ding on one of the pin areas, but nothing even noticable and easily covered up with a cold blue pen. Doesn't matter in this case, as the FSB will not be used.

Sorry, I'm just a little giddy for finally getting the barrel I wanted for the RECCE clone. I had to post something.



You know since your the master and all with AR smithing....how about doing some work for the locals for a small fee? Plus maybe some other type of incentive Let me know if your interested!

Bigant
Link Posted: 7/20/2004 8:41:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By coldblue:
Brownell's has "cup tipped" punches especially designed to remove/re-set these rounded-top FSB tapper pins.
I've used them and they are well worth the small expense.
Also consider a brass hammer for less bounce.



coldblue - are these the punches you are referring to?

www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=656&title=CUP+TIP+PUNCHES

If so, what size did you use, if you don't mine me asking.
Link Posted: 7/21/2004 1:25:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bigant:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
[picture of me flexing] I AM THE FSB REMOVAL MASTER!! [/picture of me flexing]

I just got in one of those special run 16" Bushmaster 1/7 HBAR barrels (from knightone - flawless transaction - much appreciated) and it is destined to replace the 1/9 HBAR in my RECCE clone.

www.hunt101.com/img/170359.JPG

Anyway, I just removed the FSB, so that the muzzle can be threaded. From barrel out of box to FSB and barrel nut removed was less than 5 min. Damn, I wish I could shoot a video so that you all could see how easy this operation actually is. The keys are to hit the small side of the taper pin and hit them HARD the first and second time. I left one TINY little ding on one of the pin areas, but nothing even noticable and easily covered up with a cold blue pen. Doesn't matter in this case, as the FSB will not be used.

Sorry, I'm just a little giddy for finally getting the barrel I wanted for the RECCE clone. I had to post something.



You know since your the master and all with AR smithing....how about doing some work for the locals for a small fee? Plus maybe some other type of incentive Let me know if your interested!

Bigant



Can do. Will work for food, beer or a chance to shoot whatever I work on.
Link Posted: 7/21/2004 6:55:43 AM EST
If it helps anyone who's not as uber-manly as Mongo , here's what I've done to make removing FSB easier...

First, I've just used a standard Craftsman 1/8" punch from Sears. It's kinda soft metal, and black coated. I used a 16oz ball peen hammer. Good firm but calculated hits the first two times to get the pin moving. Afterward, the punch fits into the holes left by the pins so no slipping.

The BIGGEST thing I did to help me out though...

I got a scrap piece of "shelf" wood that I had left over from a home improvement project. It's real wood, 1" thick. I cut off about a 1'x2' piece, and laid the barrel along side (but not on) the wood so just the FSB is on the wood. I then got a corner brace (the flat metal, bent at a 90' angle with 2 holes in each end) and screwed it into the wood. I used vice grips to start bending it to fit over the FSB, then placed rubber innertube over the brace. I then used a rubber mallet to shape the bracket into a FSB holding brace. I just sit on the floor using my knee to hold the longer end of the wood, but if you're using a bench, you could clamp it.

Now when I whack the pins on the FSB, the FSB doesn't bounce and there's been NO scratching at all.

To actually get the FSB started moving, I put gun oil around and in front, then gave it a couple of light bops with the rubber mallet and it came loose. Then I slid it the rest of the way off by hand.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Good luck
Link Posted: 7/21/2004 7:01:57 AM EST

I got a scrap piece of "shelf" wood that I had left over from a home improvement project. It's real wood, 1" thick. I cut off about a 1'x2' piece, and laid the barrel along side (but not on) the wood so just the FSB is on the wood. I then got a corner brace (the flat metal, bent at a 90' angle with 2 holes in each end) and screwed it into the wood. I used vice grips to start bending it to fit over the FSB, then placed rubber innertube over the brace. I then used a rubber mallet to shape the bracket into a FSB holding brace. I just sit on the floor using my knee to hold the longer end of the wood, but if you're using a bench, you could clamp it.

Now when I whack the pins on the FSB, the FSB doesn't bounce and there's been NO scratching at all.



I personally use two oak strips that measure 1" X 3/4" X 6" or so to support the FSB and barrel. I use an oversized punch for the first couple of hits to get them moving, then move to the proper sized punch to finish them off. I have found that using the proper sized punch (1/8") lends it self to the punch slipping off the pin more often and causes more dings on the FSB. Since I have built uppers for others, I have become sensitive to dings on the FSB. "Safequeeners" don't like dings on their FSBs.
Link Posted: 7/21/2004 2:08:32 PM EST
Hey Mongo, I'm glad the barrel got to you alright. Wow, you must have been eager to get the project started. You just got the barrel and got down to work getting the FSB off.

That's a great looking Recon rig. What's the length of the barrel in the pic and what's the length of the handguards you are using? It looks like a DD rail sytem to me.
Link Posted: 7/21/2004 2:40:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By knightone:
Hey Mongo, I'm glad the barrel got to you alright. Wow, you must have been eager to get the project started. You just got the barrel and got down to work getting the FSB off.

That's a great looking Recon rig. What's the length of the barrel in the pic and what's the length of the handguards you are using? It looks like a DD rail sytem to me.



Thanks for the compliment. The barrel is a 16" carbine gas system Bushmaster HBAR barrel. I have a KAC low profile gas block under the discontinued DD 9.5 (not the 9.5 FSP) rail system. This is the predacessor to the DD 9.0 rail system. DD discontinued the DD 9.5 because it was too long to be used with the Armalite/RRA midlength gas system and the standard FSB. This picture is a little dated, as I now have a KAC 300m rear BUIS and a Troy front BUIS on it as well.

The Bushy 1/7 barrel will be threaded after I get back from my upcoming extended weekend - I have a wedding to attend and have to travel to and from. Then I'll be able to shoot my 77gr SMK handloads that I have been working on with my SPR upper.
Link Posted: 7/21/2004 4:43:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By selfishselfless:
I agree. Your rifle is purdy!

Sammy



umm, yup, sure is purdy
Link Posted: 7/24/2004 4:26:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Engineer:

Originally Posted By coldblue:
Brownell's has "cup tipped" punches especially designed to remove/re-set these rounded-top FSB tapper pins.
I've used them and they are well worth the small expense.
Also consider a brass hammer for less bounce.



coldblue - are these the punches you are referring to?

www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=656&title=CUP+TIP+PUNCHES

If so, what size did you use, if you don't mine me asking.



No! The punch I am refering to has a tappered point like a starting punch and a square head that helps it keep from rolling off your bench, and in my tool box, really helps me find it as all my other drift punches are totally round shanked. I have my catalog at work so I can't give you a P/N today, but I will try and remember on Monday when i get to work.
Link Posted: 7/24/2004 6:53:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2004 6:56:25 AM EST by KevinB]
www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=432

Dave, is it one of these?


28 - TAPER PIN STARTER - This tool's radiused face matches the end of the front sight housing taper pin to prevent damage during removal. Its tapered pin is removed by driving from left to right; the small end is on the left side of the barrel, the large end is on the right side!

SPECS: 4" (10.2cm) long. 3/32" (2.4mm) diameter tip.
827-530-320 Taper Pin Starter





Link Posted: 7/25/2004 3:43:06 AM EST
YES! #28.
Thanks Kevin...
Link Posted: 7/25/2004 4:10:22 AM EST
I would be interested in hearing how you set up the barrel for the carbine gas system. How did you drill the barrel? diameter? etc. What is the band that is covering the old fsb?

That is a very nice looking rifle!
Link Posted: 7/25/2004 6:29:22 AM EST
Nice rifle! Is there a link to where these barrels are for sale? Thank You
Link Posted: 7/25/2004 1:24:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Screech:
Nice rifle! Is there a link to where these barrels are for sale? Thank You



If you are asking about the Bushmaster 1/7 16" barrels, they were a special run initiated here at ar15.com and aren't yet available to the public. I would recommend asking Bushmaster if they have any left from that run.
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 6:11:43 AM EST
Do the LMT uppers use the taper pin, or straight pins? Eventually I want to install some kind of rail down the road, and I wanna know what I"m getting myself into.

Link Posted: 8/11/2004 7:05:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By JLM:
Do the LMT uppers use the taper pin, or straight pins? Eventually I want to install some kind of rail down the road, and I wanna know what I"m getting myself into.




I believe LMT is built to milspec, so I would expect them to have taper pins.

Hit 'em HARD.

Git-R-Done!!!
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 7:54:33 AM EST
LMT uses a non tapered pin.

Link Posted: 8/11/2004 11:06:51 AM EST
Mongo,

I have to agree that the trick is hitting them very hard on the first strike. Little whacks only cause peening and mushrooming of the pin heads. Hit it like like you stole it!!
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 11:17:14 AM EST
Mongo, what type of pistol grip do you have there? How is it?
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 11:28:37 AM EST
The grip is the SPR (Sierra Precision) grip. I like it so much that I put it on all of my rifles. It has the best feel to me and puts my trigger finger right where it needs to be.
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 6:28:00 AM EST
Mongo, what type of punch do you use? I bent up some teeth on two barrel nuts and I need to remove them. Or should I just send them to a gunsmith?
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 7:56:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By 556Cliff:
Mongo, what type of punch do you use? I bent up some teeth on two barrel nuts and I need to remove them. Or should I just send them to a gunsmith?



Why remove it? I hope it isn't just because of the bent teeth. You can file them out, and oxpho blue them to look like new! The best way I have found to pull the barrel nut is to throw a cheater bar on it, and have a second pair of hands. Have a friend push straight down on the wrench while you turn on the cheater bar. Even the hardest of barrel nuts have come off this way.
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 8:08:05 AM EST
Proper support for the FSB & barrel is the first thing I do. I use two 1" X 3/4" X 6" oak strips to support the FSB and barrel. Then I use a flat bottomed, oversized punch, probably in the 1/4" to 5/16" range for the first two hits or so. I hold the punch just slightly off center on the pin, with more of the punch away from the FSB so I don't ding the FSB - just remember a ding on the FSB isn't the end of the world and can be covered up with a Birchwood Casey bluing pen and will be nearly invisible. When you hit them, hit them hard. I usually use this method until the pin is flush with the FSB. That usually takes two or three good, hard hits. Then I get the proper sized punch for the pin size and finish them off.

[knocking on wood]I haven't had any problems removing taper pins to date.[/knocking on wood]

A few essential rules to follow:

1. Make sure you are hitting the SMALL side of the pin. Get a caliper or mic to make sure if you have to.

2. Your first couple of hits have to be HARD. This will get the pins moving. If you use small, soft taps, you will mushroom the pins and will be in for a long and discouraging day.

3. Some type of penetrating oil, like Kroil or WD40 never hurts. Soak the pins with a little and let them sit for a while before trying to get them out.

You SHOULD be able to do this. If you don't feel comfortable, bring it to somebody who does.
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 9:30:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/12/2004 11:14:25 AM EST by 556Cliff]
Thanks Mongo! I'm going to give it a try.

Could you post some pics of how you set the barrel up on the wood, that would be very useful.

One more question, how hard do I hit the pins to get them back in after I'm done? I'm going to use new pins and a conave punch to put it back together, sound good?

PS, I'm to much of a perfectionist to have bent up barrel nuts on my ARs. some of the teeth are near busted.
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 11:09:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By 556Cliff:
Mongo, what type of punch do you use? I bent up some teeth on two barrel nuts and I need to remove them. Or should I just send them to a gunsmith?



Why remove it? I hope it isn't just because of the bent teeth. You can file them out, and oxpho blue them to look like new! The best way I have found to pull the barrel nut is to throw a cheater bar on it, and have a second pair of hands. Have a friend push straight down on the wrench while you turn on the cheater bar. Even the hardest of barrel nuts have come off this way.



I didn't mess the nut up trying to get them off, I messed them up trying to get them on.
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 11:32:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/12/2004 11:32:54 AM EST by mongo001]

Originally Posted By 556Cliff:
Could you post some pics of how you set the barrel up on the wood, that would be very useful.



I got some pics, but Hunt101 is down AGAIN (no uploads during upgrade). I'll get them posted when I can.
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 5:59:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/12/2004 6:00:00 PM EST by asu174]
Well, my night has been pretty shitty.

After about 200 whacks per pin, I was left with nothing more than two mushroomed heads. I attempted to dremmel off the heads, but at that point the front sight was so damaged from my repeated hits that I decided to try and cut the motherfucker off. This is what I am left with, which I don't feel like going any further because I will damage the barrel.

Time to find a gunsmith.

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_img_a/208846_502_full.jpg
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 6:12:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By asu174:
Well, my night has been pretty shitty.

After about 200 whacks per pin, I was left with nothing more than two mushroomed heads. I attempted to dremmel off the heads, but at that point the front sight was so damaged from my repeated hits that I decided to try and cut the motherfucker off. This is what I am left with, which I don't feel like going any further because I will damage the barrel.

Time to find a gunsmith.

memimage.cardomain.com/member_img_a/208846_502_full.jpg



Sorry to see that. A machinist may be a better bet than a gunsmith, unless you can find a gunsmith with machinist skills. Many gunsmiths can tear down and rebuild/upgrade most guns but when it comes to complicated repairs like these, a machinist hand is usually better than most.

Are there any other pic hosters out there so I can get these pick posted??
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 6:53:09 PM EST

Are there any other pic hosters out there so I can get these pick posted??


I use www.cardomain.com for hosting pics. It's free and easy...
Link Posted: 8/12/2004 8:09:57 PM EST
Mongo,

I use Photobucket.com

Link Posted: 8/13/2004 5:45:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By asu174:
Well, my night has been pretty shitty.

After about 200 whacks per pin, I was left with nothing more than two mushroomed heads. I attempted to dremmel off the heads, but at that point the front sight was so damaged from my repeated hits that I decided to try and cut the motherfucker off. This is what I am left with, which I don't feel like going any further because I will damage the barrel.

Time to find a gunsmith.

memimage.cardomain.com/member_img_a/208846_502_full.jpg



Oh god!!! After seeing that I might just send it to Bushmaster and have them do it.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 12:09:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 12:20:27 PM EST by mongo001]




Those are the tools I use to remove a FSB - notice there is no Dremel in the pic.

That's how I set the barrel up - I don't do them on my wife's step, I do them on my workbench, which is way to cluttered to take pics on - gotta clean that mess up.

The wood has to be set so that the pins have a clear path out of the FSB. If you obstruct the path, you will beat the snot out of the pins and they wont't come out.

When I hit the pins I place my hand just like it is shown, with the meat of the pinky side of my hand resting on the upper part of the FSB and the oversized punch placed with most of the punch away from the FSB. Then I hit them HARD. The sledge comes to about head level and I hit the punch a couple of times. At this point, I have yet to NOT see the pins moving. Two to three hits is all it takes to get the pins flush with the FSB and the smaller punch finishes them off.

Coincidently, this is one of the first barrels I ever removed the FSB on. I built an A2 upper with a two piece DPMS FF tube, but found no use for it, so I disassembled it. You can see my learning curve in the slight dings in the FSB. That is how I learned to adjust the oversized punch to that it sits more away from the FSB, so the punch is less likely to bounce and hit the FSB.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 2:18:24 PM EST
Mongo...

Uhm... that is NOT a Bushmaster barrel... which seem to have KRYPTONITE taper pins.

Scot
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 2:35:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By coldblue:
Brownell's has "cup tipped" punches especially designed to remove/re-set these rounded-top FSB tapper pins.
I've used them and they are well worth the small expense.
Also consider a brass hammer for less bounce.



The cup-tipped pin is probably nothing more than a nail-set punch. I picked one up for myself at Sears for a couple of bucks along with a regular punch set. I left no marks on my FSB mainly because the nail set punch is dimpled and fits over the rounded end of my pins perfectly.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 3:16:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 3:17:28 PM EST by mongo001]

Originally Posted By Shal1:
Mongo...

Uhm... that is NOT a Bushmaster barrel... which seem to have KRYPTONITE taper pins.

Scot



Uhm, I've done at least 6 different Bushmaster barrels, likely more. I've also done Colt, Oly, Rock River, Aramlite, DPMS - basically name the barrel brand and I've done at least one, likely more than one.

Some of the Bushmaster barrels I've removed the FSBs on and floated:





Link Posted: 8/13/2004 3:38:03 PM EST
Isn't there anyone that makes a jig to hold the FSB for this kind of work?
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 4:08:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By 556Cliff:
Isn't there anyone that makes a jig to hold the FSB for this kind of work?



I'm working on making one right now. All I have to date is a rough sketch and some raw materials. I am struggling with how to make it universal, so that any barrel profile - HBAR, gov't, light weight or custom - can be used with the same jig. I am also trying to figure out if there is a generic FSB outline I could use in the jig, so that all FSBs can be removed using the jig. As I get spare time at work, I chip away at the project, but it is not near completion just yet.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 4:19:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 4:27:22 PM EST by AKM]
Here you go:

]www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=20727&title=AR-15+FRONT+SIGHT+BENCH+BLOCK[url/]

Kind of pricy though (for what it is)!
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 4:26:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 4:32:33 PM EST by mongo001]

Originally Posted By AKM:
Here you go:
]www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=20727&title=AR-15+FRONT+SIGHT+BENCH+BLOCK[url/]

Kind of pricy though (for what it is)!



Looks vaguely like what I had on my drawing, but mine would have been more square. Now the question is whether to machine one or buy one. I am extremely lazy at times and if I could buy rather than machine, sometimes I go the "buy" route.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 4:29:27 PM EST
thanks, could'nt get it to work?
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 4:31:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2004 4:32:47 PM EST by mongo001]

Originally Posted By AKM:
thanks, could'nt get it to work?



Try this one.

Brownells AR-15 Front Sight Bench Block
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 4:32:45 PM EST
Well, I am going to do the girly thing and go crying to American Spirit Arms in the morning. They said it shouldn't be an issue to get off.
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