User Panel
Looking forward to it. As I recall you were using a set screw FSB on that. This will be good info!
|
|
I really want to see this so I can change out my standard FSB for a low-po gas block with flip up sight.
|
|
Thanks Mike!
There are obviously several ways to do a FSB install... A few different ways to do it with roll pins, a couple few different ways with set screws, and a few different ways with taper pins. Some are wrong ways, many are acceptable, and a couple are the right way. I prefer taper pins, but it's by far the most tedious and easiest to screw up on if done wrong. I've done two virgin FSB installs in my garage with simple tools and nothing more intricate than a 2/0 reamer and decent drill press. It would have been wonderful to have a correct jig (there are a few different types of those out there too), but I managed without it. I did mine an acceptable way, but there was a very good chance of screwing them up if not careful. I was lucky in two aspects; I had the money to burn if I ended up needing to ship my screw-up to Steve at ADCO, and the end-all being I was lucky and nothing was canted or over-reamed. :) I guess you're going to do an install on previously drilled FSB and barrel? If so, and you use tapers, that's got to take some talent...and definately more than garage tools lol. Looking forward. |
|
I have heard that Bravo CO is going to start sell jigs, they are set up for F-height FSB, but I bet that with the corrent shim....
|
|
Quoted:
I have heard that Bravo CO is going to start sell jigs, they are set up for F-height FSB, but I bet that with the corrent shim.... I shipped 50 of my FSB jigs to Bravo back in August. No idea when they will be listed on their website. I believe the jig would work fine on a A2 FSB with out a shim of any kind. Here is a link to my tutorial using my jig:http://www.brdengineering.com/FSB_Installation_Jig.php And a pic of the rig: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/comp1911/Guns/gas%20block%20jig/IMG_2689.jpg |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have heard that Bravo CO is going to start sell jigs, they are set up for F-height FSB, but I bet that with the corrent shim.... I shipped 50 of my FSB jigs to Bravo back in August. No idea when they will be listed on their website. I believe the jig would work fine on a A2 FSB with out a shim of any kind. Here is a link to my tutorial using my jig:http://www.brdengineering.com/FSB_Installation_Jig.php And a pic of the rig: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/comp1911/Guns/gas%20block%20jig/IMG_2689.jpg Comp1911- I was the guy from M4carbine that emailed you about the jig. You recommended that I cantact Paul. I emailed him and have not heard back yet of these going for sale. I would really like one. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have heard that Bravo CO is going to start sell jigs, they are set up for F-height FSB, but I bet that with the corrent shim.... I shipped 50 of my FSB jigs to Bravo back in August. No idea when they will be listed on their website. I believe the jig would work fine on a A2 FSB with out a shim of any kind. Here is a link to my tutorial using my jig:http://www.brdengineering.com/FSB_Installation_Jig.php And a pic of the rig: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/comp1911/Guns/gas%20block%20jig/IMG_2689.jpg Comp1911- I was the guy from M4carbine that emailed you about the jig. You recommended that I cantact Paul. I emailed him and have not heard back yet of these going for sale. I would really like one. I check the Bravo website every day too! |
|
Mike installed a demilled/once installed FSB (from the Colt M16A1 parts kit) on the non-slotted U.S. made barrel included in the parts kit. Taper pins (included in the parts kit) were used for the installation. The installation turned out well, as expected. The barrel subassembly was then disassembled, and the barrel blasted and parkerized. The parkerized barrel was then assembled with the FSB, front handguard retainer, and the A1 flashhider. This subassembly was then mounted to the Colt A1 upper with the barrel nut, and the slip ring assembly, followed by the handguards. An NDS-16A1 lower was put together with a semiauto fire control group and M16A1 kit parts and pinned together with the upper assembly. Mike will post pictures as time allows. We now have a semiauto A1 rifle built from a NoDak Spud lower, Colt M16A1 parts kit, U.S. contract manufactured barrel, and semiauto only fire control parts.
Harlan NoDak Spud LLC |
|
Great tutoral.
Wish it had been available when I did my first FSB. It might make me reconsider my "I'm never doing it again" decision. |
|
Great info,,,thanks!
Hope this question does'nt make blood shoot outa your eyeballs....but being a somewhat primitive person,,,,,what does a 1/2 degree to the right equate to on the FSB installation,,,something simple...like is it equal to the diameter of the sight post. or maybe 1/2 a sight post? Always trying to be simple. Thanks |
|
I pinned a repro flash hider on a clone Enfield jungle carbine by slotting the barrel with a dremel and thin cut-off wheel. Could that approach be used in this situation as long as roll pins were used instead of taper pins ? KevinT
|
|
So how different would your steps have been if your FSB hadn't already been pre-drilled?
|
|
Quoted:
Great info,,,thanks! Hope this question does'nt make blood shoot outa your eyeballs....but being a somewhat primitive person,,,,,what does a 1/2 degree to the right equate to on the FSB installation,,,something simple...like is it equal to the diameter of the sight post. or maybe 1/2 a sight post? Always trying to be simple. Thanks I'd like to see a pic showing this as well, or a description. Great tutorial Mike! |
|
Quoted:
Great info,,,thanks! Hope this question does'nt make blood shoot outa your eyeballs....but being a somewhat primitive person,,,,,what does a 1/2 degree to the right equate to on the FSB installation,,,something simple...like is it equal to the diameter of the sight post. or maybe 1/2 a sight post? Always trying to be simple. Thanks The cant would be about the width of a front sight post, sometimes more. It depends on the barrel and upper. I've seen upper receiver forgings that are warped to one side. So this affects it also. First off let me say that I hate, no loathe, rear sights that are adjusted all the way to one side. I have had to re-mount several barrels in uppers to get the FSB to go different directions. Depending on if I want the rear sight to go left or right to get to center. If you use the barrel clamp method, the receiver will follow the barrel nut when you tighten it. (this is generally better, and will have your FSB canted to the right) If you use the receiver clam shell, or Panther Claw, the barrel will follow the barrel nut when tightened. (which can make the FSB go to the left) |
|
Quoted:
So how different would your steps have been if your FSB hadn't already been pre-drilled? I would use a center drill instead of the end mill to start the hole. Then just drill and ream as before. An un-drilled FSB just makes it so much easier because you don't have to worry about the drill walking away from the barrel (which is harder than the FSB) in the hole. |
|
Quoted:
I pinned a repro flash hider on a clone Enfield jungle carbine by slotting the barrel with a dremel and thin cut-off wheel. Could that approach be used in this situation as long as roll pins were used instead of taper pins ? KevinT Straight pins can be used, but I would drill the hole instead of the "notch method' you describe. Drilled holes will be even, cut grooves will have voids with no contact. Which can lead to slop, and looseness in the long run. |
|
Very nice, Mike.
I, like you, hate sights that need to be adjusted far to one side or the other. Installing an FSB is a perfect way to see how patient you can be. Every second of the way I told myself "I know this damn thing is gonna end up canted". I was fortunate, and if we take our time, they will tend to turn out as nice as yours did...so long as you've shot it and verified it wasn't canted. Kudos on tackling a previously-drilled FSB install. They're the most difficult installs, next to a pre-drilled FSB being adapted to a barrel that has also been previously drilled. That's a combo I will leave to the professionals. |
|
Harlan went to the range yesterday and shot it.
Functioning was fine (no gas issues), and he only had to go one click to the left of where I had centered the rear sight. He also shot a group that was around an inch at 50 yards off the bench. Which is pretty good for his eyes. All this makes me happy. |
|
Ain't nothing about it hillbilly if you used a bridgeport mill. I built a jog just for that purpose several years ago, but it doesn't get used much. Your method is great for a one off!
|
|
Nice tutorial. My method is a lot more rudimentary and involves having the whole thing upside and clamped down for the drilling. If you've got the tools to do it right, go for it!
|
|
I'm considering one of those jigs. Any idea on price? (IM is fine if anyone knows)
|
|
Quoted:
Looks good!!! I would have to add that there are many right ways to mount the FSB. I've done it several ways, and this pic illustrates how I do it presently. It'll be up to the customer as to how right it is... http://www.wzrd.com/~rbrennan/tuts/leveling.jpg There's a lot going on here...Colt upper w/machinist's level, locating off the machined lower plane, mounted barrel w/line level (on a section of barrel that is not tapered), and FSB level attached to a tap threaded into the sight hole. Since the sight is the important part of the FSB, I locate off that. I've verified that all these levels are...er...level, by placing them on a flat surface, leveling it, then flipping the levels 180º and checking to see if they were level in that direction also... I clamp the FSB with either wood shims or aluminum plates...Depends on how much I care about the surface finish... Other than this setup (which is in one of those Harbor Freight 3 in 1 machines), I do it as Mike describes...Although I use a #31 drill (.120") and I do my reaming with a tap holder loosely held in my chuck and ream the hole by hand while reamer + tap holder are still in the chuck... This level method will not work on real GI barrels as they are tapered between the chamber and handguard cap. |
|
Quoted:
I'm considering one of those jigs. Any idea on price? (IM is fine if anyone knows) Best bet is an e-mail to Paul @ bravo. I don't know what the final retail price will be. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks good!!! I would have to add that there are many right ways to mount the FSB. I've done it several ways, and this pic illustrates how I do it presently.... This level method will not work on real GI barrels as they are tapered between the chamber and handguard cap. Quite correct. I also level off the barrel in front of the FSB. Or off a mandrel in the bore. Many ways to do it. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm considering one of those jigs. Any idea on price? (IM is fine if anyone knows) Best bet is an e-mail to Paul @ bravo. I don't know what the final retail price will be. I have done that. No responce in going on three weeks. |
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm considering one of those jigs. Any idea on price? (IM is fine if anyone knows) Best bet is an e-mail to Paul @ bravo. I don't know what the final retail price will be. I have done that. No responce in going on three weeks. That seems pretty odd for Paul. |
|
If you cut your drill bit down to about half, or roughly not much longer than the barrel is wide don't you think that would result in a straighter drill through the barrel for the pins?
|
|
Nice tutorial...thanks!
I tapped the FSB and aligned it using my calibrated eyeball and a flat surface in the kitchen. I used a set screw to hold the FSB in place while zeroing the rifle at 25m (thus confirming it was properly aligned). My 1/8" end mill broke off in the first hole so I had to use the #31 bit and drilled through the left side to get the tip of the end mill out. The second hole was drilled without an end mill and the #31 bit worked fine without flattening the hole. I am very happy with the finished product but slightly over-reamed on one of the holes. |
|
Quoted:
Nice tutorial...thanks! I tapped the FSB and aligned it using my calibrated eyeball and a flat surface in the kitchen. I used a set screw to hold the FSB in place while zeroing the rifle at 25m (thus confirming it was properly aligned). My 1/8" end mill broke off in the first hole so I had to use the #31 bit and drilled through the left side to get the tip of the end mill out. The second hole was drilled without an end mill and the #31 bit worked fine without flattening the hole. I am very happy with the finished product but slightly over-reamed on one of the holes. You may be able to get a 0/0 tapered pin to work in that hole. It's the next size up. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nice tutorial...thanks! I tapped the FSB and aligned it using my calibrated eyeball and a flat surface in the kitchen. I used a set screw to hold the FSB in place while zeroing the rifle at 25m (thus confirming it was properly aligned). My 1/8" end mill broke off in the first hole so I had to use the #31 bit and drilled through the left side to get the tip of the end mill out. The second hole was drilled without an end mill and the #31 bit worked fine without flattening the hole. I am very happy with the finished product but slightly over-reamed on one of the holes. You may be able to get a 0/0 tapered pin to work in that hole. It's the next size up. Just like Mike said. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=824299 They're out of stock right now. My local Ace Hardware has them too. |
|
Bravo Company has the FSB fixture listed on their website now.
|
|
I think they need a few more disclaimers ..... LOL This product should only be used by a qualified machinist experienced in working with the AR15 platform. The use of this product does NOT guarantee a properly indexed front sight base. Machinist should independently confirm proper sight alignment before drilling the front sight base and barrel. This product should only be used by a qualified machinist experienced in working with the AR15 platform. Do NOT use this product unless you are a qualified machinist, and have machining experience with the AR15. |
|
Quoted:
I think they need a few more disclaimers ..... LOL This product should only be used by a qualified machinist experienced in working with the AR15 platform. The use of this product does NOT guarantee a properly indexed front sight base. Machinist should independently confirm proper sight alignment before drilling the front sight base and barrel. This product should only be used by a qualified machinist experienced in working with the AR15 platform. Do NOT use this product unless you are a qualified machinist, and have machining experience with the AR15. |
|
New guy, pardon any ignorance displayed. Was thinking about this. Could one use one of the bore sighter lasers with the barrel set up on the upper and align the FSB with the laser at say 50 yds?
|
|
Looks like a good aproach to do without special jigs. I made a set of jigs for this application many moons ago. I would add two things that I have experienced: 1) When reaming the pin holes if you don't have a stop for your quill, stop short and hand ream them to get a good fit. 2) make sure you have the front handgaurd cap in place when your drilling otherwise your locations will be off. Learned that the hard way.
|
|
Quoted: In my experience, I have found that I get the proper zero with the FSB canted slightly (1/2 degree maybe?) to the right. If I have it top-dead-center, it will shoot to the right, and I'll have to crank my rear sight to the left to compensate. All my GI barrels seem to have this cant built in. YMMV I wish I would have followed this advice. I was too chicken to guesstimate it, so I went for top-dead-center. I just sighted in my kit that I built up and the rear sight had to be cranked about 2/3 to 3/4 of the way to the left. I don't really notice it when I have my nose up to the charging handle, though. It is nice to have a rifle just like the ones I had in the arms room back in the mid-80s. |
|
Years ago I did a super terrific redneck bubba hillbilly job of a FSB install.
I simply drilled the holes out and rammed some roll pins in there. It was rock solid dude. Now I know better. |
|
Nice looking jig. I had to read the instructions before I understood how it works. Sure would make pinning FSBes a lot easier. Hmm...maybe I should pick one up and offer pinning services. Lots of people are going to need pinned FSBes with all the M16A1 kits on the market. The real problem would be finding time to do it. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.