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Posted: 10/7/2004 4:07:24 PM EST
I'm building my first AR and now I'm looking at getting some ammo. What's some good ammo to get for general plinking and target practice? I usually like to buy in bulk and I did see some surplus Lake City 55 gr ammo over at sportsmansguide. I noticed 223 ammo is lots more expensive than the 7.62 mm that I usually get for my AK but I guess that's just how it is....

Any suggestions?

Thanks
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 4:08:36 PM EST
Don't get wolf. Lake city is good from what I've shot.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 4:29:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:08:47 PM EST
You can't go wrong with the XM193 you saw at SG. Winchester Q3131A is also a good choice.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:28:10 PM EST
I agree with the above. LC XM193 or Winchester White box.

I will say this though. I tried the new Wolf 62 grain Polymer coated (not laquer coated) and had no problems, shot quite well.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:41:09 PM EST
As mentioned LC and Q3131 are great. I have also had good luck with American Eagle. I have also tried S&B and don't like in nearly as much as the first three.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:10:40 AM EST
I've decided I'm going to get the Lake City ammo. Would it be better to get the 55gr OR THE 62gr ammo? The 62 grain ammo is a little more expensive but I really don't know if there's any real difference for somebody who is just going to be doing plinking and target practice. I'm going to be shooting out of a 20 inch gov't profile AR15 if that makes any difference.......
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:21:23 AM EST
wolf ammo is dirty
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:23:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By ajm1911:
Don't get wolf...



AGNTSA...
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:24:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:26:02 AM EST
Another vote for Federal XM193 and Winchester Q3131A, both of which are my favorite bulk ammunition.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:43:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 11:45:49 AM EST by metroplex]
Rutgers! Go devils! :)

Anyhow...

I did some research on rifle ammo ballistic tables and it appears the lower grain .223 bullets have a "flatter" trajectory than the heavier grain bullets (generally speaking) - I am not talking about custom handloads.. but rather American Eagle/Commercial ammo with commercial loads.

If you look at Federal 50gr JHP, 55gr BTFMJ, and 62gr FMJ... you'll see the 50gr JHP (which costs a bit more BTW) will drop less at 500yd whereas the 62gr FMJ will drop more. This doesn't mean a whole lot if you shoot at shorter ranges, but it does make a difference when hunting I suppose.

I found www.ammoman.com to have good prices on Lake City XM193 and Federal ammo in general for the .223/5.56x45

Federal Lake City XM193 is NATO spec ammo (has the circle with the cross).

BTW I have a VEPR K which eats 7.62x39 and good 7.62x39 comes from Barnaul or Wolf. The domestic stuff is of good quality but the accuracy is comparable to the cheaper Barnaul and Wolf.

Lake City XM193 comes out to be twice the cost of Russian 7.62x39, which is about $0.20/rd

When you get to about $0.40/rd to $1/rd that is when it's expensive!
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 12:49:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 12:53:24 PM EST by Stainless]
I use wolf ammo for my plinking and target practice. The new polymer wolf is excellent for the price. If you shop around, look for deals and buy in bulk, you can buy wolf for around 9 cents a round.

Consider the following. In the past 2 years, I have shot 20,000 rounds of wolf 223 ammo. At 9 cents a round, those rounds cost me $1,800. Those same 20,000 rounds, if XM193, purchased at ammoman.com, would cost you $4,000. I saved $2,200 buying what some consider an "inferior" product. $2,200 is nothing to laugh at.

Let's say for example, you only purchsed your XM193 at gun shows, or you also were able to find "deals" on the net. Let's also say you were able to buy XM193 for $170 per 1,000. 20,000 rounds at $170 per K totals out to $3,400 or $1,600 more than I paid for wolf. That $1600 bought: my rifle, every mag I own, a Troy MRF, and a tango down, and there was change left over.

There is a place for wolf ammo, and there is a place for XM193.

Do I own any XM193? YES, it is saved for "social applications."

You will hear from the "train as you fight" crowd, and you will hear from fellow "cheapo's" like myself. But for shooting cans, tvs, bottles, and the occasional paper target... Wolf reigns supreme.

Have a good one.

Stainless
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 1:06:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 1:07:05 PM EST by BB]
Go with Winchester Q3131A

STEEL CASES = BROKE EXTRACTOR
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 3:27:37 PM EST
Brass only
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 4:19:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 4:20:07 PM EST by Not_A_Llama]
Barnaul (or Wolf). Reliable and accurate. Dirty, however.

STEEL CASES = MONEY SAVED

I have *NEVER* seen a broken extractor caused by steel-cased ammo. If your rifle breaks extractors that often, your gun is crap and needs to be fixed. Even if you were right, you save enough from each case to buy two new extractors.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 4:23:46 PM EST
Wolf has never failed me, just dirty as hell. I pulled my firing pin out of my BCG today while sitting on my bed afdter fireing about 300 rounds of ammo thorugh it (about 100 rnds of wolf and 200 rnds of M855) and I had a big stream of black shit go all over my comforter.

In my case WOLF AMMO=DIRTY RIFLE=DIRTY SHEETS=PISSED OFF WIFE

lol.

I love shooting it though.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 4:37:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 4:42:02 PM EST by BB]

Originally Posted By Not_A_Llama:
Barnaul (or Wolf). Reliable and accurate. Dirty, however.

STEEL CASES = MONEY SAVED

I have *NEVER* seen a broken extractor caused by steel-cased ammo. If your rifle breaks extractors that often, your gun is crap and needs to be fixed. Even if you were right, you save enough from each case to buy two new extractors.



Then you need to see more AR15s shooting steel cased ammo. I've seen it. In a Bushmaster and a kit rifle. Saved money does zero good if you break an extractor in the field. Why, oh why, would you shoot ammo in your rifle that it was not designed for? Dirty ammo even, in a rifle that dumps gas into the receiver? I mean come on now, you spent at least $500 on your rifle; why would you run crap ammo through it? Thats like running cheap gas in your corvette. Save the Wolf for your AK and buy the good stuff for your rifles that need it.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 4:42:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By BB:

Originally Posted By Not_A_Llama:
Barnaul (or Wolf). Reliable and accurate. Dirty, however.

STEEL CASES = MONEY SAVED

I have *NEVER* seen a broken extractor caused by steel-cased ammo. If your rifle breaks extractors that often, your gun is crap and needs to be fixed. Even if you were right, you save enough from each case to buy two new extractors.



Then you need to see more AR15s shooting steel cased ammo. I've seen it. In a Bushmaster and a kit rifle. Saved money does zero good if you break an extractor in the field. Why, oh why, would you shoot ammo in your rifle that it was not designed for? Dirty ammo even, in a rifle that dumps gas into the receiver? I mean come on now, you spent at least $500 on your rifle; why would you run crap ammo through it? Thats like running cheap gas in your corvette.



I run cheap gas in my Harley, does that count?
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 4:43:30 PM EST
Crap ammo is Ultramax. Wolf is not "crap", it's inexpensive. Many, many people can shoot Wolf w/o any trouble whatsoever. If someone does have problems with it, then they should stop shooting it. That doesn't mean everyone else has to.

Once again we seem to be falling into a RIGHT OR WRONG frame of mind here.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 4:44:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By DM1975:

Originally Posted By BB:

Originally Posted By Not_A_Llama:
Barnaul (or Wolf). Reliable and accurate. Dirty, however.

STEEL CASES = MONEY SAVED

I have *NEVER* seen a broken extractor caused by steel-cased ammo. If your rifle breaks extractors that often, your gun is crap and needs to be fixed. Even if you were right, you save enough from each case to buy two new extractors.



Then you need to see more AR15s shooting steel cased ammo. I've seen it. In a Bushmaster and a kit rifle. Saved money does zero good if you break an extractor in the field. Why, oh why, would you shoot ammo in your rifle that it was not designed for? Dirty ammo even, in a rifle that dumps gas into the receiver? I mean come on now, you spent at least $500 on your rifle; why would you run crap ammo through it? Thats like running cheap gas in your corvette.



I run cheap gas in my Harley, does that count?



Nah, Harleys run like crap no matter what you put in 'em
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 4:46:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By El_Roto:
Crap ammo is Ultramax. Wolf is not "crap", it's inexpensive. Many, many people can shoot Wolf w/o any trouble whatsoever. If someone does have problems with it, then they should stop shooting it. That doesn't mean everyone else has to.

Once again we seem to be falling into a RIGHT OR WRONG frame of mind here.



I stand corrected. Instead of "crap" I should have used "steel-cased, dirty and inappropriate for an AR" to describe Wolf ammo.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 4:47:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By BB:

Originally Posted By DM1975:

Originally Posted By BB:

Originally Posted By Not_A_Llama:
Barnaul (or Wolf). Reliable and accurate. Dirty, however.

STEEL CASES = MONEY SAVED

I have *NEVER* seen a broken extractor caused by steel-cased ammo. If your rifle breaks extractors that often, your gun is crap and needs to be fixed. Even if you were right, you save enough from each case to buy two new extractors.



Then you need to see more AR15s shooting steel cased ammo. I've seen it. In a Bushmaster and a kit rifle. Saved money does zero good if you break an extractor in the field. Why, oh why, would you shoot ammo in your rifle that it was not designed for? Dirty ammo even, in a rifle that dumps gas into the receiver? I mean come on now, you spent at least $500 on your rifle; why would you run crap ammo through it? Thats like running cheap gas in your corvette.



I run cheap gas in my Harley, does that count?



Nah, Harleys run like crap no matter what you put in 'em



Ohhh, and you have owned which Harleys to experience this?
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 4:48:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 4:51:15 PM EST by DM1975]
Never diss the Harley... Thats like slapping my wife.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 5:00:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 5:02:55 PM EST by El_Roto]
OK, everyone, BB says Wolf is inappropriate for your rifle. Stop shooting it now even though you don't have any problems with it except for dirty comforters.

Yes, some people have broken extractors while shooting Wolf and we have to take it as GOSPEL that the big bad Wolf broke those extractors 'cause BB said so. (Lord knows no extractor has ever broken on a rifle that wasn't shooting Wolf!)

And because those people endured untold pain and suffering, you must toil under the lash as well! "Unfair," you say! NO! This is a democracy! Shut up!

Now pile your bad bad ammo in the corner and buy what BB tells you to.



After we're done buying ammo, we'd like to know what kind of rifle configuration are appropriate too, BB, just to make sure everything's OK with you.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 5:20:02 PM EST
Call Eric over at the ammoman.com; he's your best source for ammo. Sportsmansguide is a close second...in my book. If have purchased nealy 10,000 rounds from them together and not a single is a Wolf round. In the next 20 to 30 years I have left to buy ammo, I will never spend another single penny on Wolf ammo. It's just too risky for me.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 5:34:18 PM EST
I just placed my order at Sportsmansguide. I got the 55 grain Lake City ammo. Unfortunately since I live in New Jersey I can't buy ammo from ammoman. The funny thing about that is ammoman is located in New Jersey.....
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:26:05 PM EST
Yah, one of the few drawback to living in the Garden State.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:34:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rutgers:
I'm building my first AR and now I'm looking at getting some ammo. What's some good ammo to get for general plinking and target practice?

Any suggestions?

Thanks




I am in the EXACT same boat as you. Since I want to test this rifle and its function the first time out, I want to minimize as many variables and factors as possible.


I am going to use 30rd, Green follower, USGI magazines made by Labelle - brand new.

and for ammo, I am going to use Federal XM193.



From what I have read on this board, this combination is OVERWHELMINGLY considered the best combo. Best mag, best ammo (for non target ammo or hunting).


This puts magazines and ammo in spec as much as possible. Feeding should be good. Velocity and pressure from the ammo will be mil-spec, so that will help minimize any issues. Cases are brass, that will help clear issues and variables for extraction....you get the picture.



I would hate to go out and use Wolf, have failures, and not be able to determine if it was too dirty, too underpowered to cycle in my gun (never know, might be a picky gun), slightly out of spec, if the case finish wasn't idea and hurt extractionl....
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 6:39:54 PM EST
Well said! FWIW, that's exactly what I did when I got my Bushmaster and it worked well for me.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 2:45:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By El_Roto:
OK, everyone, BB says Wolf is inappropriate for your rifle. Stop shooting it now even though you don't have any problems with it except for dirty comforters.

Yes, some people have broken extractors while shooting Wolf and we have to take it as GOSPEL that the big bad Wolf broke those extractors 'cause BB said so. (Lord knows no extractor has ever broken on a rifle that wasn't shooting Wolf!)

And because those people endured untold pain and suffering, you must toil under the lash as well! "Unfair," you say! NO! This is a democracy! Shut up!

Now pile your bad bad ammo in the corner and buy what BB tells you to.



After we're done buying ammo, we'd like to know what kind of rifle configuration are appropriate too, BB, just to make sure everything's OK with you.



Damn straight! FINALLY someone gets it!
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:09:13 AM EST
It's more like the Garbage state. Glad I moved out of there.

Are you going to Rutgers New Brunswick or Rutgers Newark? Or Rutgers Camden? Ammoman is at West Berlin and you can probably go to pick it up.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:26:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 4:27:13 PM EST by Rutgers]
I graduated from Rutgers New Brunswick 3 years ago....... I'm not even sure if ammoman allows local pickups but even if he did it's not really worth the ride unless he has something that I really can't get anywhere else or has some prices that are much cheaper than any other site.....
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:46:14 PM EST
A lot of my friends graduated from Rutgers NB last year.

Anyhow - NJ does not allow shipment of ammo within the state because they require you to show ID at the time of purchase. I'm not sure if you HAVE to buy ammo from a FFL dealer.... In MI, I just click the mouse a few times and ammo appears at my doorstep a few days later.

Check out his prices on the site. He's a bit high on a lot of the other ammo, but the Lake City stuff seems to be comparably priced.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 8:41:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 8:41:30 PM EST by kensteele]
If I were a NJ resident, I would drive to go pickup ammo from Eric.
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