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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/24/2003 2:05:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2003 9:59:50 AM EDT by DustinA]
I've searched and read the threads, and I have not been able to find an answer... so here goes.

A friend and I recently assembled so-called "CA Legal" AR-15s with FAB 10 lower receivers. Both of us installed the RRA national match triggers.

Upon initial installation of his trigger, it felt "gritty" through the first stage and upon release of trigger during 1st stage (letting off, rather than firing), the trigger would "stick" rather than returning forward. Manual pressure was required to return the trigger to the front. We fired +/- 100 rounds through it with the trigger like this, and it worked fine... but was not the smooth trigger we were expecting.

Just last night I finished up assembling my rifle, and the initial trigger was VERY gritty. Unbearably so. Trigger weight was very heavy and it was hard to estimate exactly when the trigger would break.

We both removed the trigger groups from our guns and decided to polish them somewhat with 1500 grit sandpaper. We sanded all mating surfaces to a shine (seer, hammer hook, disconnector, etc).

Upon reassembling the lowers, his trigger had turned itself into a very smooth and light single stage trigger. The second stage was entirely gone. Keep in mind that we polished/sanded lightly with 1500 grit sand paper and only removed the finish/paint. Now he is upset because he thinks his trigger is ruined.

Now, I have a different story. I reassembled mine and it was still 2 stage. In fact, it felt exactly as it did before. Confused, I removed the trigger group again and sanded/polished the front (primary?) seer (the one in front of the trigger) and the corresponding catch on the hammer. I then polished these surfaces to a silver mirror finish (I could see myself in the reflection). I went over all surfaces again, sanding for a good hour or so. Everything was now to a mirror finish, and absolutely smooth. I softened all sharp edges and evened the surface of the metal out somewhat.

I reinstalled the trigger group, and it smoothed the trigger out 100%. It is very smooth now, and functions as a 2 stage quite well. After the first stage, there is basically zero slack until the gun fires. Any trigger movement past stage 1 releases teh hammer. However, the first stage still seems "heavy", in that one must be careful to pull the trigger slowly, or else go through both stages in 1 lone motion. That is, I have to pull so hard that once I get to the second stage I almost have enough momentum to break the shot. This is hard to describe. I apologize. Also, the trigger still will not return forward if taken through stage 1 and released. The trigger must be manually returned to the front. So all in all, the trigger is very smooth -- but it just does not seem to be acting the way it should.

Any ideas for the two of us?

Link Posted: 7/28/2003 11:43:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2003 11:45:55 AM EDT by DustinA]
Ok, I think I figured out what my problem is. I tried swapping in the stock trigger with the rest of the lower entirely assembled, and you cannot engage the safety with the stock trigger installed. It pushes the trigger down and up into the hammer. To even install the hammer, it is necessary to push the front trigger seer down about 1/16". Neat. So the lower has the holes drilled in the wrong place. I called FAB10 and am sending it back to them. You'd think for a $300 lower they could at least drill the holes in the right place. Unfortunately, before I figured this out I really went to town with the file on the RRA NM trigger, trying to make it "work" (not realizing the lower itself was the problem)... so I ruined the trigger :( I don't know if I can force myself to buy another $100 trigger. --Dustin, a FAB10 owner and unfortunate CA resident that should have just bought an M1A instead...
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 1:50:00 PM EDT
Have you read this thread ? [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=165665[/url] ? I think it will be helpful to you. I have put two RRA triggers on two different FAB 10 already. Yes it needs additional work but if you following the above thread, you should be able to tune your second stage. That should fix your friends problem. Sanding ANY surface on the hammer side will only make the second stage disappear. As for your gritty first stage, it's most likely due to the hammer spring tension being too strong. Try to bend the hammer spring in the direction of compression and you should get back a smooth first stage. It really doesn't take that much strenth to fire the gun. This is the same way CLE or Bushy 2 stage app notes tell you to do if there is any problem with the first stage. HTH, Chris
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 3:49:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DustinA: So the lower has the holes drilled in the wrong place. I called FAB10 and am sending it back to them. You'd think for a $300 lower they could at least drill the holes in the right place.
View Quote
That sucks! I assume that FAB uses a CNC machine to make the lowers, which brings up a whole bunch of new issues. How long has their design been out of spec? Was it just for a run of lowers or all of their lowers? We'll have to keep an eye out for other FAB owners having similar problems.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 4:01:22 PM EDT
hycheng, Yes I read that thread, that's where I got the idea to file on the disconnector. I started with 1500 grit on it and after no noticable progress I went to 600 grit, then an emery board, and finally just a file. The last step was removing about 1/16" of metal on my bench grinder. All this did was make it so the hammer would actually lock down UNDER the disconnector and could only be released with a screwdriver. So the NM trigger is shot. When I first starting assembling the lower, I did put the stock trigger in and it had a very heavy trigger pull. It "worked", but the only things installed in the lower were the trigger and hammer. After installing the safety, it was impossible to install the hammer without pushing the front of the trigger seer "down" to get the hammer pin to go through the hammer. In fact, with both triggers it was impossible to install the hammer without pulling the trigger back. With the stock RRA trigger installed, it is impossible to fire the gun. It is also impossible to switch the gun to safe because this tries to push the trigger "foward" which levers it into the bottom of the hammer. In fact, there are wear marks on the top surface of the seer where it has been rubbing against the bottom of the hammer (these surfaces should not touch). So the only real possibility is that the holes are drilled in the incorrect locations. My friend has a ser# within 4 of mine, and his seems to work (although his NM trigger seems to need "tuning").
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 4:15:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2003 4:23:48 PM EDT by hycheng]
Sounds scary, can you share with us your serial lot # ? I'll go back to check mine also. Also, I am interested to find out if filing down the disconnector help your friends case. Like I said before, hammer spring tension seems to be the cause and fix of sluggish first stage, not filing any surface on the trigger. It seems you and your friend have different problems. At least this is what I've seen in my case and what CLE or Bushmaster instruction will advice you.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 6:53:40 PM EDT
Ser #0003XX
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 7:45:37 PM EDT
Mine is 000289. IM sent also.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 10:53:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 11:06:35 PM EDT
Sell your tools cause your a hack.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 6:16:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By David_Hineline: Sell your tools cause your a hack.
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And you're an ass. What are you gonna sell?
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 10:02:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By David_Hineline: Sell your tools cause your a hack.
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Huh. Well thanks for the helpful comment. Always appreciated.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 11:14:51 AM EDT
Hineline forgot to take his prozac today or he forgot to beat somebody up..... As for the 2 stage trigger i often wondered if any body had the same problem as I. 1stage is set at 5# and second seems like 1 pound and that doesnt seem right....on mine But I can dump a mag in not ime because I have the reset portion of the trigger set so lightly that you can hardy see my finger reset after firing.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 12:11:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/29/2003 12:12:45 PM EDT by David_Hineline]
I was wrong please buy more tools because american manufacturers could use the money you have to pay to replace items when you do all the repairs yourself. Buy a book on gunsmithing and you will find no where in there does the term 1500 sandpaper come into play for polishing. Also do the right thing and buy your friend a new trigger since you pooched his.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 12:57:31 PM EDT
Oh you are right, I should have taken the gun to my friendly California neighborhood AR15 gunsmith. If you would go ahead and read my post instead of trying to sound like internet commando, you would realize that the problem ended up not being with the trigger. I never touched my friend's trigger. If I were you, I would try to maintain a more respecful attitude with that "Team AR15.Com" sticker under my name. You make this site look bad with your attempts at condescension. Thanks, though. Your comments have been quite helpful and apparently were a good investment of your time.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 1:14:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/29/2003 1:15:58 PM EDT by David_Hineline]
But you'r not me, you'r a Californicator and have to own 10 shot lowers. Now just how condescending is that? I like my Condescending attitude it suits me just fine. yes I re-read your post and now realize it took a team effort to ruin both triggers.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 1:23:07 PM EDT
If you have anything additional to "contribute" to this thread, go ahead.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 3:04:29 PM EDT
Despite anyone else's attitude or your mechanical ability I think you need to edit the title of your post as it obviously is more of an issue with your FAB lower/home craftsmanship than RRA's trigger. If it's a bad trigger that's another story.No flame intended just calling 'em like I see 'em.
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 10:00:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2003 10:03:04 AM EDT by DustinA]
Well, I never said there was anything wrong with the triggers. I was just asking for help/experience. I changed the title to make everyone feel better. .... I also mailed my lower back to Shoeless Ventures in NV. We'll see what they say. I left the stock RRA trigger in, and it's impossible to release the hammer without using a screwdriver :)
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 10:42:39 AM EDT
I have four FAB's. Two from an early batch, one from a later batch and one of the newer "Shoeless Ventures" versions. They have all been assembled/re-assembled several times, with DPMS internals and JPE springs. Never had a problem.
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 11:18:38 AM EDT
Maybe RRA and Bushy triggers don't work in them? I guess I'll find out!
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