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Posted: 5/6/2003 5:52:39 PM EST
The only hopes in beating the number of posts and viewers TitaniumT got was to go with a topic sure to start a flame war ....

But seriously. In the last two years alone, the AR weapons platform has seen an amazing number of new developments. Calibers, configurations, accessories, all sorts of good stuff. Bound by the physical limitations of the original design, a lot of excellent new modifications made their debut. To name a few:

Calibers: 499LW, 50 Beowulf, 458 SOCOM, 6.8 mm, 17 HMR, 5.45x39, a renewed interest in 6mm PPC, and several 50 BMG conversions

Rail systems/handguards: RAS, RIS, SIR, FIRSH, Fobus M33, PRI

Stocks: RRA Entry, ACE Skeleton, MSS, VLTOR

Uppers and Lowers: Side charging uppers, the SOCOM Mfg lowers, the SW lower that takes the AK mags, the KAC SR-47

Operating Systems: Pigtail, renewed interest in the Rhino type system, Shrike belt fed system, BRPGuns MG conversion

So my question to you, the AR enthusiast, is: What would be the next great development in the AR? Think big, brainstorm, be creative. We are toying with ideas here, but are curious to hear what you are thinking.

Link Posted: 5/6/2003 6:24:21 PM EST
I want to see a MINIMUM of 25 pages worth of response. My config: SIR, 6.8 SPC, the upcoming G36 style gas system, and a side charging SOCOM upper. As for the stock, I'm still toying with different options.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 6:39:43 PM EST
5.56 & 7.62x39 Side Charging Gas-piston driven upper. Cheaper rail systems, tac lights and optics while retaining quality.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 6:42:37 PM EST
Having not heard or seen specifics on the "G36" upper, i'm still waiting eagerly to try out the RROC upper.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:14:58 PM EST
I would like to see the development of advanced metallurgy in the AR15 realm: Titanium, etc. I hate the way my HB Dissipator feels on my Cav lower. Hate it. I definitely want to see integration rather than modulation. Why do we still have attachments? Why not a small flip up reflex sight integrated into the forearm as a primary sight or the secondary to a full power scope? Lasers integrated into the same area, bipods onto the underside like the Steyr Scout. Optics need to get cheaper, especially in the thermal area. Thermal is the way to go, day or night. They are only expensive because they can I think. I think overhauling the AR15 is necessary. The 5.56 has proven itself inadequate in warfare, maybe less so in the law enforcement area, but definitely does not have the lethality a soldier needs. The Army is looking at an intermediate caliber and so should. I like the large caliber novelty rounds previously mentioned by the original author. I was part of the 458 group buy at one time but had to sell for several reasons. I am looking to get a new job and may have reason to reinvest in something like that. I do not care for so called smart ammunition, though the OICW round looks good in a test environment. I think we need a system that improves hit probability versus general lethality. This may sound contradictory to the above paragraph, but I believe that the two should go hand in hand. You can't destroy what you can't hit. You can't destroy what cannot be penetrated (by weak ballistics; ie 55 and 62 gr 5.56mm ammunition). Magazines need to improve. Period. Or we need an all new type of feeding device. AR mags were originally designed to somewhat disposable. So are cloth diapers. We need one or the other. Keep it KISS, but improve it. We are talking about a 40 year old system. Cars were around 40 years ago but have improved exponentially in that time; the AR15 has not. Why.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:22:37 PM EST
A medium frame chassis between the 10 and the 15. Something that could accept cartridges similar to the 458 SOCOM but with bigger case capacity. Not quite an AR10 action but not as small as the AR15. Imagine the 458SOCOM+ with an easy push of 2400fps with an outside range of 2700fps with a 300gr bullet. [shock] That is a MAJOR redesign, but something they may want to look to... Integrally suppressed uppers. Silencers built in to the handguard system with superior cooling characteritics. Ed
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:23:05 PM EST
The Marines have started testing/using a new version of the M-16 which is the M-16A4. It's a very sweet rife from what I hear and see. Here's what I know about it. It comes standard with flattop upper and what looks like a KAC RAS II system. However, this RAS II system is not connected, or braced, to the flattop on the upper receiver. I do know that the new A4 is slightly heavier than the A2 but has much greater accuracy and can be shot at much longer ranges. In all the pictures I've seen, the Marines have Trijicon ACOGs mounted on the flattop, I can't tell which model. Here is a piece out of the article I read on it. "The new A4 is slighty heavier than the A2, but has a stronger barrel, vented handgrips on the receiver, and a flat rail system on top of the receiver for mounting laser scopes or night-vision devices. These new features give smaller units "sniper-like" capability, which can prove useful in America's war on terrorism." I'm sure we will be hearing more about the M-16A4 in the near future.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:31:31 PM EST
definetely a gas piston G-36 style upper.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:35:07 PM EST
Caseless ammunition with upper designed to take advantage of the absence of extraction and ejection of cases.(Other than to manually remove unfired-chambered cartridge.) Composite barrel constructions for weight reduction/ heat dissipation. Electronic primer ignition for: super fast lock time, whatever trigger pull or even trigger geometry that could be beneficial, fewer moving parts with the possibility of a one-piece solid state replacement part for field repair.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:41:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By MarineNP: It comes standard with flattop upper and what looks like a KAC RAS II system. However, this RAS II system is not connected, or braced, to the flattop on the upper receiver.
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Sounds like the [url=http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=156836&w=searchPop]KAC URX handguard[/url]
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:47:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By fizassist: Sounds like the [url=http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=156836&w=searchPop]KAC URX handguard[/url]
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Yes, I think that could be it. Thanks for the heads-up.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:32:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2003 7:11:48 AM EST by ZRH]
Something like a Stoner 63a chambered in 7mm. Select fire of course. Also with a better type of mag. Preferably something hefty like G3/FAL type mags. AND DEFINITLEY NOT A BULLPUP.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 10:12:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2003 12:39:43 AM EST by ConfederatemummyAR15]
What I want to see in the future is: All the people responsible for the assault weapons ban publicly hung as traitors to our nation 6.5mm chambers please, 5.5mm is a nice little round, but somthing in the area of 6.5mm would be much more utilitarian Titanium alloy upper and lower bodies, yes this can be done affordably now days. It would be slightly heavier than aluminum, but much stronger with similiar properties Larger, lower profile bolt catch button More reliable and robust mag system (my main bitch about AR's)possibly made of titanium alloy or forged lightweight steel even some sort of polymer that isn't absolute shit like so many of the others Redesigned charging handle so you can charge the gun while its on your shoulder, possibly placed on the top of the front of the bolt and ambidextrous Everything ambidexterous please, yes it's possible Cleaner gas system, G36 anyone? THICKER BUFFER TUBE FOR US CARBINE USERS! Full auto option available on all guns purchased by lawabiding citizens (so funny I forgot to laugh)
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 10:58:08 PM EST
Integral suppression would reduce bbl. life, but since (it seems like) most mil. units don't get to shoot all that much in peacetime, this might not matter. Otherwise, unless an entirely new gun is issued (a possibility) an AR180/G36-type gas system is probably a sure bet down the road, & a folding stock (w/ length adjustment?) would probably be a desirable spin-off. Ambidextrous controls would also factor in. I'd like to see folding F & R sights come standard, but this is probably a less likely prospect. I actually think that modularity is a more desireable approach than dedicated system/gadget integration, mainly because failures/breakages, etc. would enable quick & simple subsystem(s) replacement, so long as spares are available. Also, it allows the firearm to be 'stripped' back down to a usable, basic platform that the shooter should be practiced, adept, & ready to fall back to if the extra gadgets go south. IMO.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 2:19:25 PM EST
1. 3 piece free floating handguard made like this: barrel nut to secure barrel and serve as the mount for the handguards. An upper section that is roughly 2/3 of the handguard. Rails on top & sides. This screws onto the barrel nut. The lower section is detachable. Standard would be another railed section, but you could substitute a grenade launcher, or a section with an integral, folding bipod. 2. Caliber 6.5mm or thereabouts with a bullet that fragments reliably down to 1900 fps. 3. Gas piston system, similar to the old Rhino. 4. Polymer lower receiver. Its a non-stress part of the gun anyway, why go with the expense & weight of titanium? 5. I'd can the side handle charger. As it is, it's ambidextrous. Go to a side handle and it now becomes troublesome for a lefty. 6. Reliable, tough, polymer magazines like the G36 or Sig that can also be clipped together. Accompany it with vest/mag pockets that will hold two mags clipped together, or 3 unclipped. Floorplates with integral magpul type loops. 7. Package deals on AR sales. Buy a rifle with an extra upper unit at reduced cost. Kind of like buying a shotgun with a 26" hunting barrel and 18" riot barrel. Buy a rifle with say a 16" and 20" uppers.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 2:30:21 PM EST
Modular upper with quick-release barrel so you could go from .22lr to .223 to .499 by just changing the barrel or go from a 10 inch to a 16 inch to a 24 inch in the same way. Integral rail system would be good too!
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 4:35:28 PM EST
Assuming that the AWB flies away for good..... 1. More H&K Steel 30 Round Magazines 2. H&K G36 upper with a 16" or 20" barrel. The upper must have A2 or similar type iron sights and a rail for a Trijicon optic. 3. Different calibers would be nice of course. I say some sort of 6 mm round for prole pimpin. I guess 6x45 mm? What are they using in that experimental SPR? 4. I think the MOST IMPORTANT development for the AR-15 system is the widespread manufacture and proliferation of 77 grain Match King and 100 grain tungsten rounds for civilian and military use. The old M193 and M855 have outlived their useful lives. These heavier bullets provide better long range performance in terms of fragmentation and ballistics.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 4:42:54 PM EST
A four-way rail that could turn and lock into place for various optics. E.g. scout scope & Aimpoint. Wouldn't that be cool?
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 4:51:48 PM EST
Built in noise and flash suppression. A larger more lethal round. G-36 type gas system. Stocks with a larger adjustable range (so it will fit every body size better). Better stock iron sights. Standard factory free floated barrels. Cheaper high quality optics. Shouldn't we have energy weapons by now?
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:02:29 PM EST
A nice and reliable 6mm PPC chambering. Not just for civilian use but also would probably be just about perfect for military as well. Readily adaptable to the current platform if proper high capacity magazines were designed and produced. 80-100 grain bullet offerings in the 6mmPPC that could deliver higher velocities than what the 223Rem could deliver with such bullet weights.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:29:48 PM EST
I've noticed that many want to see a G36 style gas piston system. I myself would like to see a setup like this become available, however here is an important advantage of the current, direct gas system to consider: With the direct gas system, residual gases are injected into the bolt carrier and vented out of the two holes on the ejection port face as the bolt is cammed open before the carrier clears the ejection port. This action provides a gentle push of gas away from the ejection port to prevent airborne debris from entering the action during the reloading cycle. As you know debris can present a jamming hazard due to the tight tolerances of the reciever/ carrier assembly in AR type weapons. The direct gas system helps prevent jams provided the correct clean burning ammo is used. VT
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 7:24:19 PM EST
I am [b]liking[/b] this thread. Interesting to see the general consensus on the G36 type system and the 6-odd mm caliber. Some of the other ideas we are actually getting ready to prototype. On the idea of modularity, there was a post a while back (long while I think) in "Build It Yourself" IIRC. The poster had built his own lower, but rather than milling from a solid, he had made "bolt on" mag well walls. Using that approach, you could change the size of the mag well. DPMS made their 308 rifle use the AR-15 fire control parts. So perhaps a modular lower that could have different mag wells for different lengths cartridges (image slapping a M1918 BAR magazine under that AR ...) I think we'll get some interesting ideas here, keep em coming (And no flames yet!) Marty
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 8:07:59 PM EST
Good topic Marty... You know how I feel about indirect impingement gas systems -- but I will call it the AR180 style... as G36 is based on AR180 anyway ;) Okay, I would like to have a gas piston/op rod system that still has the advantages of a free float barrel, integrated handguard system (removable for cleaning), cocking lever where it should be -- port side, forward (for us righties), and a no maintenance sound moderator. Hummm, that gun sounds familiar. Here is one for you now... New cartridge using a .25 to .26 cal bullet, SD of better than .25, BC in the .500 range and weighing in at 90 to 110 grains -- all with a MV of 2700 plus. BETTER MAGAZINES! I do not see the need for receivers made from unobtanium, but I have not seen one made from 7068 either... hell for stought I would imagine? There are a few other things... did you get the stuff I sent you? Got some fresh news, shoot me an email. Gunz
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 12:26:51 AM EST
A can opener would also be nice.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 12:31:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By ZRH: Some type of Stoner 63a rifle. Something like a Stoner 63a chambered in some type of 7mm. Select fire of course. Also with a better type of mag. Preferably something hefty like G3/FAL type mags. AND DEFINITLEY NOT A BULLPUP.
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Frickin -A- not a bullpup. When I was a kid I used to think they were the end all and be all of guns, until I actually fired one. Unbalanced, awkward, and if they blow up they take your friggin face off with it. The only thing a bullpup is good for in my opinion is something compact to fire from vehicles, or a full size sniper rifle in a compact package. I will admit though that I have always wanted to try out the FA-MAS, since it has such a good track record.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 12:35:45 AM EST
A cup holder would be nice.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 12:43:29 AM EST
The availability of afordable quantities of 75-100gr ammunition After the ban sets: M16A1 style ARs again. HK steel magazines available without a Department letterhead Stoner SR25K carbines at an afordable price.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 6:58:12 AM EST
Almost forgot this one... GAIN TWIST, POLYGONAL RIFLING!
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:33:12 AM EST
Bushmaster Superlight profile barrels available in 11.5", 14.5", and 20" straight from the factory.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 7:50:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gunzilla: Good topic Marty...
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Thanks! And no apparent flames yet, either!
Here is one for you now... New cartridge using a .25 to .26 cal bullet, SD of better than .25, BC in the .500 range and weighing in at 90 to 110 grains -- all with a MV of 2700 plus.
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Check out [url]www.competitionshooting.com[/url]
I do not see the need for receivers made from unobtanium, but I have not seen one made from 7068 either... hell for stought I would imagine?
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A company here in Houston [b]was[/b] making Ti lowers, but don't know if any ever left the facility. Not sure what became of them ... lost track, didn't think Ti was needed and the cost-benefit analysis didn't favor Ti.
There are a few other things... did you get the stuff I sent you? Got some fresh news, shoot me an email.
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Think I got it, will Email. Had a brain storm on modularity last night, need to pull some parts and see what works. It may be hog wash or it may turn out to be brilliant (probably the former). Marty
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 8:15:17 AM EST
I think the whole ar market is going to modularity. SIR's and RIS's, with different mounts for mission specifc equipment (ights, lasers, bipods, optics, Foreward handguard etc.) That is the beauty of the AR system. THe complete modularity. You can have .22LR dedicated uppers and then put a .50 BMG on it the next (and if you have the money, A srhike [;)], oh wait. I don't have the money [:D]). I think as long as the platform stays sutible for calibre conversions and the rails stay on. The ar will be along for a very long time.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 8:19:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By MartytW: Check out [url]www.competitionshooting.com[/url]
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I have been looking at the 6.5/26 Grendal for solutions to that magazine issue we talked about. I have a place to get mags manufactured for "other" applications as well. Like the idea of a rifle in 6mmX... Hummmm, interesting.
Had a brain storm on modularity last night, need to pull some parts and see what works. It may be hog wash or it may turn out to be brilliant (probably the former). Marty
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Will call you this evening... I finally gave in and decided that a new (dedicated) upper reciver is the answer to my gas piston system. Perhaps we should talk about any mods you may want to see before I go any further?
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 1:38:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 5:04:55 PM EST by flash-hider]
A lower like the early XM-16E1 without the fence around the magazine button, just the bulge that holds the spring for the front pivot pin retaining detent. An A1 barrel with 1/9 twist. The direct gas is what makes it an AR-15, otherwise it would be something like an AR-180 with a carrying handle. Re-starting maufacture of G.I. spec. 20-round magazines
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 1:44:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By ConfederatemummyAR15: A can opener would also be nice.
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Integrated or with an ARMS mount ??
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 1:49:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By ZRH: Some type of Stoner 63a rifle. Something like a Stoner 63a chambered in some type of 7mm. Select fire of course. Also with a better type of mag. Preferably something hefty like G3/FAL type mags.
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Every time I see the Stoner 63 mentioned I get mad all over again. The Marines badly wanted to purchase this MG right after Vietnam but were told no by CONGRESS !! Wonder where this fine weapon would have evolved after about thirty years with the Corps ??
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 3:59:59 PM EST
How about a Carbon fiber rifle that WORKS?
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 9:57:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/9/2003 9:59:09 PM EST by GiggleSmith]
[hail2] Polygonal rifling! Good Idea! I’d also go with the gas piston to keep the gas from blowing onto the carrier. [hail] As the Shrike is now finally being released to customers, I’d like an AR15/M16 Shrike in .308. If somebody wants a .308 Shrike for AR10’s so be it. But I’d like a .308 Shrike for my M16! [soapbox] A repeal of the AW Ban as well as 18 USC 922(o) a few years later. Hey, if we’re going to root for one repeal we may as well root for the other as well. This is going to be a bit hard to describe: The plastic furniture should have a SLIGHT give to it. Remember the pens that a bit of a “Give”, which helps you get a better grip? Why not with the AR’s? Just enough to get a better grip when your hands are sweaty from the sun/heat/work/etc. Somebody (Bushmaster as a special) I believe had Wood furniture for their AR’s. [thinking] Which is interesting in itself. An AR15 completely outfitted with wood! A Black Rifle that isn’t Black! And just to be weird: A water-cooled upper.[coffee]
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 10:37:41 PM EST
MarineNP- is this rail system common with the Marines wherever you are??? All M16A4's ive seen in the Army use the standard RAS. This goes to include the Marines ive seen at Camp Pendleton, San Diego.. just curious. -rob
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 3:32:49 AM EST
I'd like to second the caseless idea. It may be like the bullpup thing, good in theory, but when tou actually get to play with it things just aren't any good. A little bigger caliber might be nice too, I'm currently looking at an AR10 in .243. I think I'll keep the can/bottle opner on my Leatherman though.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 6:31:11 AM EST
Light weight (polymer maybe) Modular (rails should be removable) Cheap Reliable (piston) The AR180 seems to strive for most of these. How well? I have no idea. --LS
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 10:15:14 AM EST
I'd like to see a bunch of things... Firstly, I'd like to see it take on a piston-driven action... a simplified bolt design eliminating the nooks and crannies of the current one... A new barrel attachment system, perhaps integrating a free floating handguard... A reduction in size would be nice; though already small, more compactness is always desireable... one of the few things I admire about the israelis is their "Mini" concept for arms... A larger, more robust bolt catch (mine gets torn up every 2k live rounds.. probably a consequence of how much dry firing I do)... Moving the pistol grip back from the trigger would be nice for encouraging better marksmanship... an enlarged triggerguard "hole" to eliminate the need for the winter mitten gate... more robust design. A better stock mounting system than the difficult to machine thread and grooved tube system... perhaps the gas piston system would allow the use of a collapsible and folding stock The spring in the pistol grip has got to go.. that's a terrible idea Lastly, but I think most importantly, there need to be steps forward in the maintenance department. Easy servicing is something that can be learned from computer people. The use of a recessed thumbscrew for removing the pistol grip would be an example. All rail-mounted accessories should also be thumbscrewed. ONE tool should be used to take apart the entire rifle; preferably extracted from hand-removeable parts integral to the rifle. One punch size should be used to remove the trigger assembly pins and the bolt catch pins... maybe the firing pin could be changed to also act as a punch. The firing pin retaining pin needs to be addressed, too... that's a pain in the ass... I need to design my own rifle!
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 7:50:21 AM EST
Polygonal rifling is a bad idea. Well, unless you want a rifle that will randomly kaboom on you.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 11:21:32 AM EST
My wish list: 1) An intermediate receiver, capable of handing a slightly bigger 6mm round, perhaps a 107 grain bullet. 2) More advanced metals and composites like carbon fiber and/or titanium 3) Fully ambidextrous controls and new mags that clip together like the Swiss 550 4) A G36 type upper with piston gas system 5) Barrels with the resilency of chrome, but the accuracy of cut-rifled stainless Is that too much?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:32:41 PM EST
Hmmm, I like all the ideas, but nothing has been truly "out there" yet. Plasma rifles, particle beams and rail guns are out, but here are some thoughts to tickle your brain. Most of these are based on working concepts: - BULLETless ammo. Not good for long distance, but an interesting approach for CQB. One of the KAC guys came up with this one. Rather than ejecting the empties out the port, they become the projectile for the next shot. Imagine high velocity cookie cutters ... they do quite the number on windshields... I still have the article on this concept - LNG Propellant. Playing with the gas powered nail gun and the paint ball rifle. The pressurized container as stock like the paint ball guys have, or even the back pack like they use. Instead of air, use propane ... fire off little 22 caliber bullets like the nail gun does. Can't imagine a 10 penny nail weighing less than a 55 gr FMJ-BT. - I forgot the name of this one. Barrels are packed with alternating powder and bullet, and the charges are set off electronically. By arranging these barrels in matrices, they can get unsavory theoretical/instantaneous firing rates of 1,000,000 rpm and up ... So, instead of changing the mag on your AR, change the barrel? Or have several barrels mounted with different munitions, in a rotating cradle - select the barrel you want, discard after use (mini-LAWS). - New propellants. Forgot powder. We want gels, liquids, solids. Astrolite. Now we're cooking .... I'll return to reality here in a few minutes Marty
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:41:04 AM EST
Roller triggers and sand-sealed/O-ringed magazines and ejection ports.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 6:47:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By MartytW: - New propellants. Forgot powder. We want gels, liquids, solids. Astrolite. Now we're cooking .... I'll return to reality here in a few minutes Marty
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Ummmmmm... Astrolite... I do know of one excursion into using detonation, rather than rapid deflagration. The problem in the test platform was that the brisance was too destructive to the weapon itself -- I do know that the designer was able to redesign the projectile (this was an AMR) and use a drag stabilized projectile with okay results... Eventually, the design evolved into an offensive mine, using an explosive formed projectile... however, it was a one shot affair and had to be remotely detonated. Take a look at the effect of large case rounds that have been underloaded, seen a few nice rifles literally destroyed! The velocities that are possible, make it almost out of the question to try to spin stabalize... reduction of initial drag is an issue -- some succes was seen with using an air column cushion, but the by product was VERY high operating temperatures... Still an interesting idea...
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 8:23:36 AM EST
Id like to see something like the REPLAY FEATURE on that gun in the FIFTH ELEMENT, one shot and every shot after goes to the same location. Maybe a a fly-by-wire miniature TOW missle instead of the m203, definitely some more thermal optics and higher capacity magazines that dont weigh as much as the 100 round drums. Also we need some experimentation into different kinds of proppelants. Powder now days is much more potent than the original black powder. Maybe we could find something even better requiring less volumes so that we could reduce case sizes and overall weapon weight. Maybe something crazy, the military needs to do more research into SPONTANEOUS HUMAN COMBUSTION [flame] , maybe develope some sort of chemical compound that we could coat the projectile in. If SHC was garunteed( <-- thats spelled wrong i think) where ever you hit the target than we could actually produce smaller projectiles. Combine the smaller projectiles with more potent propellant and ballistics might be better. Imagine using 20 grain rounds with SHC coatings, even if shoot ur enemys finger off he still dies from SHC. penetration wouldnt be nearly as important if u still had range and accuracy. well thats all for now but u think its OUT THERE enough?
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 8:30:22 AM EST
Since I dont know a whole lot about the "mechanics" and "composition" features.... How about a lower price tag???
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 8:55:25 AM EST
Something else just popped into my head thinking about propellants. We need quieter propellants. IF they were quiet enough it would eliminate the need for sound suppressors and if there werent a visible discharge of gas and fire the need for a flash suppresor would be gone too. This would be great for special ops forces where detection is their worst opponent. or maybe some Depleted Uranium bullets. Although that stuff is radioactive so that wouldnt work, lol. just adding to my previous post.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:28:00 AM EST
Heres what I want, A 20Ga upper. 20Ga shells will fit through a modified mag. Get about 10 in a USA 40rd mag.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:34:00 AM EST
Evolutionary changes? hmmm How about a design that goes around the CA laws, cuz even if the Fed AWB sunsets the CA law doesn't/ a feasible large caliber round, 45-50 cal, specialized for maritime environments. The 45acp in a long barrel (ala the Thompson which was the first boarding party weapon I ever held) is about right, maybe a little stouter. I know there are some currently available or coming. Trying to make them fit into the available space of the basic action is wrongheaded. I don't know enough about the beowulf or leitner (the Leitner factory web pages give me the willies.) to comment but the caliber and performance is right, I think a new action i needed. Coasties, Customs, Navy/Marine boarding parties need something between the 5.56 and 12 gauge. CQB in an all steel environment is a challenge. I think this mission solution may be an evoltuionary dead end for the AR-15 platform. rotating front handguard assembly with rails built in so you could change sight system as needed. build a rest into the bottom of the grenade launcher or light system so you could still put the rifle on a sand bag or ??
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