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Posted: 4/10/2006 4:22:41 PM EST
So I have a delton 16inch kit on a dpms lower. Less than 7-800 rounds through it. Wolf ammo. Me and my roommate fired off about 200 trouble free rounds at the range, then at her last turn trouble struck. After she would fire the first round the gun would fail to pull out the spent round and it would start to shove in the next round. Saying these rounds where stuck was an understatement. I had to shove a cleaning rod down there and pound pretty hard on the handle of it to get the round out. I thought everyone said these rifles were soo great and how everyones run flawless. Im starting to think its an under statement. I clean it after every use oil it ect and I hear people on here "yup 900 rounds havent cleaned it yet, runs great". Im starting to think I should of bought an ak. I did some searching and came up with this in one thread " #1 The (weak) extractor spring allows the extractor to jump over the rim of the cartridge and the bolt carrier continues rearward, grabbing the next round and causing the classic "fired case in chamber, live round behind it" FTE." It came from a mod on here I guess? Though it sums up my problem. Some guy at the rang esaid ar's are famous for barrel burrs? I dont know what that means but maybe I havent been around to have heard of it. So my question is do I buy a new extractor spring even though mines practically new or go to get a practically new barrel de-burred?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:27:42 PM EST
Is the barrel and chamber chromelined?an AR with quality parts should not do that.Could be a rough chamber or a tight chamber.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:34:10 PM EST
i have a rock river arms, and it is really reliable. except for one occasion. i was shooting some WOLF, ammo, and had the same thing happen. had to knock the round out with a cleaning rod. the round had a flat primer. which basically means too much pressure.
if your gun shot fine before, and then suddenly started doing that, id at least try some different ammo, even a different lot of wolf. maybe you have a bad batch. the only malfunction i have had was definately ammo related. dont get me wrong, im not bad mouthing wolf ammo. i like it overall. just
#1 clean it, and use a chamber brush
#2 try some different ammo
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:34:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 4:35:19 PM EST by Stickman]
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:35:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By UrbancommandoX:
So I have a delton 16inch kit on a dpms lower. Less than 7-800 rounds through it. Wolf ammo. Me and my roommate fired off about 200 trouble free rounds at the range, then at her last turn trouble struck. After she would fire the first round the gun would fail to pull out the spent round and it would start to shove in the next round. Saying these rounds where stuck was an understatement. I had to shove a cleaning rod down there and pound pretty hard on the handle of it to get the round out. I thought everyone said these rifles were soo great and how everyones run flawless. Im starting to think its an under statement. I clean it after every use oil it ect and I hear people on here "yup 900 rounds havent cleaned it yet, runs great". Im starting to think I should of bought an ak. I did some searching and came up with this in one thread " #1 The (weak) extractor spring allows the extractor to jump over the rim of the cartridge and the bolt carrier continues rearward, grabbing the next round and causing the classic "fired case in chamber, live round behind it" FTE." It came from a mod on here I guess? Though it sums up my problem. Some guy at the rang esaid ar's are famous for barrel burrs? I dont know what that means but maybe I havent been around to have heard of it. So my question is do I buy a new extractor spring even though mines practically new or go to get a practically new barrel de-burred?



Your problem isn't a weak extractor spring. Sounds to me like you've got out of spec ammo, a tight chamber, or a bunch of crap built up in the chamber keeping the round from extracting. If you've got a burr in your chamber, it would've happened from the start...unless you did something to cause the burr after the 200 rounds you shot.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:37:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 4:39:09 PM EST by want2race]
Unless he has solid cred's I would NOT take any advise from a range rat. Maybe your range is different, but that's how I feel at my back country range. Mostly hunters zeroing in, or young shooters out having a good time. Neither of which I would necesarily trust for solid AR15 advise.

First off, your shooting the worst of the worst. Buy some decent ammo. Sure, many on hear shoot Wolf. I won't (I'll bad mouth it freely). Buy a box of 20 factory ball and retest. Did you keep any of the brass. It is possible that your chamber is frosty. The brass will show it.

Don't buy another barrel quite yet. Start simple. Ammo change then Extractor O ring.
They are dirt cheap.


Edited to add: Damn I take 3 minutes to type and 3 posts preclude mine. Sheesh. Help comes quick here.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:39:43 PM EST
I am fairly certain that you should have bought an AK.

Bob
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:44:53 PM EST
I clean it and lube it everytime. This sunday when I head to jefferson Ill stop by wally mart get 2 boxes of there ammo load it in one mag, take the remaining wolf out of the other mag and load up a new box of wolf in there and try them both then Ill report back to this thread with the results.

P.s. As for the batch of wolf i bought a 1,000 round box at a gun show of the stuff and inside was 20 rounds boxes 500 of the rounds were sealed in plastice and the other 500 sealed in there own plastic. Dont know if that matters or they have batches on them but Ill see and Ill check that o-ring.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:46:37 PM EST
Just curious the people who said ak, are you being sarcastic since this is the ar board or are you serious? Cant tell by looking at letters.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:50:31 PM EST
Stop shooting wolf, unless it is an AK
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:50:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By UrbancommandoX:
Just curious the people who said ak, are you being sarcastic since this is the ar board or are you serious? Cant tell by looking at letters.



Yes
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:51:35 PM EST
Let me see, you bought a "Big Lots" AR and feed it "Alpo" and now you're are suprised and all let down that you had issues with that combo?

I agree with the others, go buy an AK
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:52:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:53:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 4:54:34 PM EST by Stickman]
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:57:03 PM EST
Hello
I have shot thousands upon thousands of rounds thru many differant ARs. And Wolf, no matter how much people love it , will get stuck in the chanber once and a while. I have had wolf get stuck in Colts, Bushmasters and RRAs. A very clean chamber helps...clean with your chamber brush.

ARs are GREAT but if you want a rifle that NEVER fails get a good AK.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:58:56 PM EST
Same issue on Sat. at our outdoor range. After 240 rnds of surplus and about 100+ cheap Wolf ammo..... we had (2) Wolf stick in the chamber in my sons AR. Luckily I had my 1pc. cleaning rod that trip due to storing it with the bolt gun.

Our issues were not a dirty chamber, or burrs, or an out of spec barrel chamber. We have had this upper for years and all my other ammo shoots fine. It was definately the Wolf ammo.

We finished with another 100+ surplus and 100+ Wolf without any other issues.

Like the others mentioned, try some Winchester or other name brand ammo or even surplus and I bet that you wont have any issues.

Good luck,
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:09:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:18:14 PM EST
its the ammo....1 wolf squib

had the same problem last week--1 out of over 1200 rnds of wolf in my AR and i get my first stuck case
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:19:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 5:41:09 PM EST by _DR]
Cause and effect...

Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:21:14 PM EST
I've got a new Bushmaster with about 500 rounds through it and have had only two double feeds, one with green box Remington which I no longer shoot (underpowered), and then with, yes, you guessed it ... Wolf.

After I read all about the jams with Wolf on this site, I still went ahead and bought 3 20-round boxes of the crap (62 grain, supposedly polymer coated). It jammed on me on the "second" round fired. I shot up the rest of that first 20 round box and haven't opened the other two since.

Another day when I'm feeling like I need to practice my chamber clearing procedures, I'll shoot some more Wolf. But not until that dumb day.

I'm sticking to Winchester, Federal, "top flight" surplus and Hornady.

I've also added a D-Fender to my extractor and some gray magpulls followers to my mags as pre-emptive double feed measures.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:33:32 PM EST

Let me see, you bought a "Big Lots" AR and feed it "Alpo" and now you're are suprised and all let down that you had issues with that combo?


That's pretty much what I was thinking.............Some can't buy a clue.....
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:39:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:41:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 5:42:22 PM EST by ALPHAGHOST]

Originally Posted By SGB:

Originally Posted By MEDIC-0372:


ARs are GREAT but if you want a rifle that NEVER fails get a good AK.




..........anyone who claims AKs NEVER fail is full of shit. I've seen numerous AKs fail, mostly due to crap ammo. Including Mine.



+1

my AK wont run w/ Hungarian training ammo half of the time and sometimes jams w/ poly mags+wolf HPs

mechanically, the AK is superior (imo), but like all machines, its got its kinks
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:42:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By MEDIC-0372:
Hello
I have shot thousands upon thousands of rounds thru many differant ARs. And Wolf, no matter how much people love it , will get stuck in the chanber once and a while. I have had wolf get stuck in Colts, Bushmasters and RRAs. A very clean chamber helps...clean with your chamber brush.

ARs are GREAT but if you want a rifle that NEVER fails get a good AK.




Oh Rly?

Funny thing is I have shot THOUSAND upon THOUSAND of rounds of Wolf and NEVER had that problem, EVER. I have had MORE problems with Federal XM193 than Wolf.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:43:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:45:26 PM EST
There's some good advise above - but you also might want to check your bolt carrier key - it might be slightly loose
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:48:59 PM EST
Well sorry to whoever I offended. When I was reading about them on the build board alot of people spoke highly of there kits. And it wasnt one fail to eject it was around 3 or 4. This is the first time its happened, all my other trips to the range with it were great. I was asking questions, sorry if thats a crime. Im going to take the o-ring advice and check it out also Im going to check out other ammo. I havent been here that long and didnt know ammo was a big deal cause it seemed alot of people shot wolf. So god damn it lay off. Want2race do you have a picture of where this o-ring is by chance?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:49:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By UrbancommandoX:
Just curious the people who said ak, are you being sarcastic since this is the ar board or are you serious? Cant tell by looking at letters.




This isn't only the AR board. In case you haven't noticed, there is a whole other world to AR-15.com. Look here AK47.net

......and yes, we are very serious about buying an AK. A VEPR or Arsenal is just what this guy needs.

Accountant
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:51:28 PM EST
I obviously know there is another board. Maybe I should have said this section or forum instead of this board.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:59:43 PM EST
Some guns/barrels just don't like the Wolf. I've had a Colt 20" and a Bushy 20" that would occasionally get a stuck case in semi auto. Run them in full-auto beta dumps and never had a problem. It's not like it's the end of the world when you have a stuck Wolf case. Don't use the stuff for life or death eve4nts unless you have to. Just expect to have a stuck case and if it doesn't happen, you can be all happy and that. I still shoot the Wolf for funnin' around cause it's cheap.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:10:06 PM EST
I've used wolf as range ammo,knock on wood,havent had any problems.

Between all my ARs, probably have over 6k of wolf through them.

I save my good stuff for life or death situations and to zero in my rifles.

TG
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:12:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By UrbancommandoX:
Well sorry to whoever I offended. When I was reading about them on the build board alot of people spoke highly of there kits. And it wasnt one fail to eject it was around 3 or 4. This is the first time its happened, all my other trips to the range with it were great. I was asking questions, sorry if thats a crime. Im going to take the o-ring advice and check it out also Im going to check out other ammo. I havent been here that long and didnt know ammo was a big deal cause it seemed alot of people shot wolf. So god damn it lay off. Want2race do you have a picture of where this o-ring is by chance?



o-ring: dsgarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=518
ADCO's got em too
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:28:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 6:36:11 PM EST by MEDIC-0372]
SBG...sorry, I guess that I should not have said, "NEVER". But I did say to get a GOOD AK. There is some junk non-military spec stuff being sold in the US. I am sorry that yours does not work to well but I have never seen an AK fail using standard FMJ ammo.

ALPHAGHOST...you are right, many semi and/or full auto guns wont run on training ammo. I remember in the Army our SAWs would many time not cylce with blanks and our M-16s would jam quit often with blanks. Also hollow points have been known to cause problems...stick with FMJs or S-points.

NonConformist...that is amazing. I am glad that you have such good luck with Wolf. I myself have also shot thousands of rounds of Wolf .223 in my ARs. BUT...I have had some stuck cases in each of my ARs. Colt, B-Master and a RRAs. All chrome lined. I love Wolf and I am not bashing it. UrbancommandoX stated that he had a problem and I helped to inform him that it is a common problem with Wolf and ARs. He stated that he had a Kit built rifle so I let him know that it does not only happen with his Kit Build but it happens with other "Name Brand" rifles also. If you read the posts here and on other boards you also will see a trend...that wolf ammo sometimes causes stuck cases in ARs. It may not happen in all ARs but it is common.

Just remember...Wolf ammo is good, fun and cheap but if it fails don't worry its cheap.

And if you want a rifle that NEVER fails LESS than anything out ther get a GOOD AK.

Take care,
Medic 0372
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:43:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 6:45:09 PM EST by StealthyBlagga]
Stuck cases are a common (though not universal) problem with Wolf in AR15s. If you look closely, you may find that the rim was actually ripped off the case by the extractor. Before you spend a penny on "fixing" your rifle, I suggest you thoroughly clean the chamber and then buy a couple of hundred rounds of WalMart Winchester White Box ammo and test fire again.

I have owned 5 different AR uppers from 5 different manufacturers with very different barrels and ALL OF THEM have suffered this kind of stopage with Wolf ammo. Don't let anyone here tell you your rifle is faulty just because it won't shoot Wolf.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:52:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
Stuck cases are a common (though not universal) problem with Wolf in AR15s. If you look closely, you may find that the rim was actually ripped off the case by the extractor. Before you spend a penny on "fixing" your rifle, I suggest you thoroughly clean the chamber and then buy a couple of hundred rounds of WalMart Winchester White Box ammo and test fire again.

I have owned 5 different AR uppers from 5 different manufacturers with very different barrels and ALL OF THEM have suffered this kind of stopage with Wolf ammo. Don't let anyone here tell you your rifle is faulty just because it won't shoot Wolf.



I 2nd that.

My point earlier too....one of two rifles had Wolf FTE problems. And yes, the case had a "rip" or "part of the rim seperated" from the extraction attempt. That was the end of a 1000 rounds of Wolf shot during the last 3 range trips.

For the cost of Wolf per 1k rounds and my teenage son and I doing informal plinking at the 100 yd. range I will put up with the couple of rounds per thousand that may not extract.

Just my $.02, .....err $.05 at this point.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:57:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
Stuck cases are a common (though not universal) problem with Wolf in AR15s. If you look closely, you may find that the rim was actually ripped off the case by the extractor. Before you spend a penny on "fixing" your rifle, I suggest you thoroughly clean the chamber and then buy a couple of hundred rounds of WalMart Winchester White Box ammo and test fire again.

I have owned 5 different AR uppers from 5 different manufacturers with very different barrels and ALL OF THEM have suffered this kind of stopage with Wolf ammo. Don't let anyone here tell you your rifle is faulty just because it won't shoot Wolf.



Not saying you are not right. But why do some of us not have problems with WOLF ammo? Just asking as I don't know why this continues to be an issue (with some).
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:07:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Garandboy:
Not saying you are not right. But why do some of us not have problems with WOLF ammo? Just asking as I don't know why this continues to be an issue (with some).



I can't answer with any certainty, but I suspect it has to do with some combination of the following variables:

1) Barrel (material, lining, chamber dimensions/smoothness, gas system etc.).
2) Shooting style (cadence of fire etc.).
3) Maintenance habits.
4) User expectations.

I wouldn't say the people who claim they have "shot thousands of rounds of Wold without a problem" are liars, but, in my considerable experience, stuck cases are more common with Wolf .223 ammo than with commercial brass cased .223 ammo.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:13:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 7:16:41 PM EST by _DR]
It probably doesn't help that per the description the weapon has apparently received little if any cleaning or maintenance, which should include cleaning the chamber and lubrication.

Wolf leaves a thick filthy residue, as do many of the russian made munitions.

Contrary to what McNamara's whiz kids told us, the AR15 is not a maintenance free weapon.

Now is when we will get all the "10,000 rounds and no malfunctions without cleaning" stories.


Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:28:59 PM EST
I've had a bunch of cases of Wolf by now (right now it's probably half and half between the laquer coated stuff and the polymer coated stuff).

I had the most problems with the laquer coated Wolf, but it was by no means as bad as yours. In the 4 or 5 cases of laquered .223 I'd bought, I had about 3 stuck cases that required knocking out. I think I might have had one in the 5 cases of Polymer coated Wolf. The other problems I've had with my rifles since then have been related to mags or lack of cleaning (obviously my fault)

On another note, I had 3 stuck cases of Q3131a in 2 boxes in one day at the range. I'd never had those problems with Wolf (at least not in 40 rds time).

Shit happens.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:35:04 PM EST
make ABSOLUTELY sure that your chamber is TOTALLY clean before you do your next test fire.

AR's can be, and are, very reliable, as long as one stays with a reputable manufacturer and applies proper maintenance and lubrication.

good luck with it.


don't count it out yet.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:44:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By MEDIC-0372:
Hello
I have shot thousands upon thousands of rounds thru many differant ARs. And Wolf, no matter how much people love it , will get stuck in the chanber once and a while. I have had wolf get stuck in Colts, Bushmasters and RRAs. A very clean chamber helps...clean with your chamber brush.

ARs are GREAT but if you want a rifle that NEVER fails get a good AK.



HA! I've owned many rifles, and the two LEAST reliable were both AKs. Go figure.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:46:57 PM EST
+1 on the ammo...start there, then check the mag, etc... before you junk the upper.

It usually the simple answer most of the time.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:48:03 PM EST
+1 on the ammo...start there, then check the mag, etc... before you junk the upper.

It usually the simple answer most of the time.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:52:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By UrbancommandoX:

So I have a delton 16inch kit on a dpms lower.

Wolf ammo.

Im starting to think I should of bought an ak.




Take up knitting.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:52:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By UrbancommandoX:
So I have a delton 16inch kit on a dpms lower. Wolf ammo.




That is your problem.


And try to use paragraphs next time.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:23:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:24:37 PM EST
I have had stuck cases with Wolf polymer, Olympic, Rem/UMC all kinds of crap. Usually it happened when I went a while without really cleaning it.

One thing I always keep in mind when my Ar's malfunction is this. Ar-15(other modern battle rifle owners as well) owners(most anyway) shoot them and they shoot the crap out of them. Most of us clear at least 2-3 cases a year if not more and normally are slack on detail cleaning. We are gonna see more malfunctions than other shooters due to probability. Ar's, Ak's, Fal's and all of them see more rounds in a year than a typical bolt action rifle does in it's entire lifetime. Malfunctions occur with any machine, especially a machine put under tremendous stress.

Don't get down trodden over this, if the fucker blows up then I could understand. Hell when I bought my first one it was going full auto on me and took two trips to the factory to get it fixed and I wasn't upset. Ak's do mess up and I think the whole Ak's are more reliable than Ar's is bullshit. Sure they might will go longer without cleaning, but I'm not a peasant from the Ural's and am capable of cleaning my rifle occasionally.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:39:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 8:40:28 PM EST by rogue007]
Ship the upper to me.............I'll buy it, seriously.


its not the upper, if it was running before, it will run again.


When you cleaned it............. you probably forgot something, like the extractor buffer or something....


Nothing wrong with Del-ton or Wolf...........all that matters is that it makes holes.......
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:44:59 PM EST
I would be embarrassed I couldn't spell Embarrised
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:47:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By k9dpd:
Stop shooting wolf, unless it is an AK



Huge +1
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:53:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
Oh Rly?

Funny thing is I have shot THOUSAND upon THOUSAND of rounds of Wolf and NEVER had that problem, EVER. I have had MORE problems with Federal XM193 than Wolf.



I would have said the exact same thing months ago(minus the XM193 problems). I had shot around 8000 rounds of WOLF before having my first malfunction. Blown primer, torn casing and stuck in the chamber. Popped it out with a cleaning rod.

I'm sure it will happen sooner or later.
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