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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 8/24/2009 1:39:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2009 1:40:01 PM EST by tigs40cal]
The last couple of times I have shot my M&P15A (M193)I have noticed the the brass is ejecting straight out or forward of ejection port. There is a small shiny spot on the back of the ejection port in front of the deflector. No marks on deflector so I guess the brass is hitting the back of the port and ejecting out and forward. Is this an extractor spring problem?

Link Posted: 8/24/2009 2:44:00 PM EST
Usually an indication of higher than normal bolt speed (aka overgassed).
Link Posted: 8/24/2009 3:16:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By gregw45:
Usually an indication of higher than normal bolt speed (aka overgassed).

I've ran 1500 to 1800 rounds and this just started in the last 200.
Link Posted: 8/24/2009 4:20:35 PM EST
Have you started shooting hotter ammo?
Link Posted: 8/24/2009 5:09:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By 240shwag:
Have you started shooting hotter ammo?

First 1k was S&B M193 (3200fps feels kinda snappy) and no problem. Then I ran around 500 Canned Heat. 4-450 no problem then started throwing brass forward. Ran some more S&B M193 Saturday and doing the same thing. Extractor spring don't protrude past the O ring and looks a little short to me. I got a BCM spring that I'm going to compare to the original and install. Would a weak / wore out spring cause this?
Link Posted: 8/24/2009 5:47:21 PM EST
You action spring is weaker than it was brand new. The BCG will travel faster than with a new spring.
Link Posted: 8/24/2009 6:19:08 PM EST
Is it common to have to change the buffer spring every 1500 to 2K rounds? Whats the fix? Full auto carrier? heaver buffer or just a new buffer spring? Or all the above? Thanks for any help.
Link Posted: 8/24/2009 6:23:34 PM EST
Change the spring when it is less than 10 and 1/16" in length.

I don't understand why people get so hung up on the "ejection pattern" of a rifle. If the rifle works, it works. Might not be running "ideally", but it's a combat rifle for crying out loud.
Link Posted: 8/24/2009 6:30:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2009 6:43:57 PM EST by tigs40cal]

Originally Posted By beavo451:
Change the spring when it is less than 10 and 1/16" in length.

I don't understand why people get so hung up on the "ejection pattern" of a rifle. If the rifle works, it works. Might not be running "ideally", but it's a combat rifle for crying out loud.

I don't care where the brass goes as long as it's running good like you said. I just want to know if there is something I need to do because of this change to unsure it keeps running good.

ETA: I will check the spring length. Thanks for the help.
Link Posted: 8/24/2009 6:43:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2009 6:44:25 PM EST by beavo451]
Originally Posted By tigs40cal:

Originally Posted By beavo451:
Change the spring when it is less than 10 and 1/16" in length.

I don't understand why people get so hung up on the "ejection pattern" of a rifle. If the rifle works, it works. Might not be running "ideally", but it's a combat rifle for crying out loud.

I don't care where the rounds go as long as it's running good like you said. I just want to know if there is something I need to do because of this change to unsure it keeps running good.



Touché
Link Posted: 8/25/2009 6:51:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By tigs40cal:

Originally Posted By beavo451:

... I don't understand why people get so hung up on the "ejection pattern" of a rifle. If the rifle works, it works. Might not be running "ideally", but it's a combat rifle for crying out loud.


I don't care where the rounds go as long as it's running good like you said ...




A proper ejection pattern can be used as a guage, and is an indication that the rifle IS "running good" ... or functioning well / close to optimal.

Which is not the same thing as saying "If it works, it works" ... especially in the context of a "combat rifle" where reliability is critical.

Link Posted: 8/25/2009 7:53:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By tigs40cal:

Originally Posted By beavo451:

... I don't understand why people get so hung up on the "ejection pattern" of a rifle. If the rifle works, it works. Might not be running "ideally", but it's a combat rifle for crying out loud.


I don't care where the rounds go as long as it's running good like you said ...




A proper ejection pattern can be used as a guage, and is an indication that the rifle IS "running good" ... or functioning well / close to optimal.

Which is not the same thing as saying "If it works, it works" ... especially in the context of a "combat rifle" where reliability is critical.



So at a carbine class where every persons' gun ejects differently AND his or her rifle will probably malfunction once or twice, you're going to tell them that he should have paid more attention to how his gun was ejecting?
Link Posted: 8/25/2009 1:00:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By tigs40cal:

Originally Posted By beavo451:

... I don't understand why people get so hung up on the "ejection pattern" of a rifle. If the rifle works, it works. Might not be running "ideally", but it's a combat rifle for crying out loud.


I don't care where the rounds go as long as it's running good like you said ...




A proper ejection pattern can be used as a guage, and is an indication that the rifle IS "running good" ... or functioning well / close to optimal.

Which is not the same thing as saying "If it works, it works" ... especially in the context of a "combat rifle" where reliability is critical.


This was my thinking and what brought about the question. When my rifle ran all those rounds the same from brand new then something changes like whats happening with mine, I would just like to know why. I will check spring length and go with a heavier buffer to start. if that don't do it I'll get a FA carrier. Thanks for all responses.
Link Posted: 8/25/2009 1:54:42 PM EST
OK, one more "stupid question". With whats going on described above, should I get a heavy buffer or go to an H2 Buffer?
Link Posted: 8/25/2009 4:20:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2009 12:07:28 PM EST by Winn]
Originally Posted By beavo451:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By tigs40cal:

Originally Posted By beavo451:

... I don't understand why people get so hung up on the "ejection pattern" of a rifle. If the rifle works, it works. Might not be running "ideally", but it's a combat rifle for crying out loud.


I don't care where the rounds go as long as it's running good like you said ...




A proper ejection pattern can be used as a guage, and is an indication that the rifle IS "running good" ... or functioning well / close to optimal.

Which is not the same thing as saying "If it works, it works" ... especially in the context of a "combat rifle" where reliability is critical.



So at a carbine class where every persons' gun ejects differently AND his or her rifle will probably malfunction once or twice, you're going to tell them that he should have paid more attention to how his gun was ejecting?






Yeah right, paying attention to something like that would be silly ...

Because ejection issues and malfunctions are completely UNrelated - always.



Link Posted: 8/28/2009 11:28:55 AM EST
I just took my new 16" middy build to the range and I noticed all the ejected shells had a deep scratch in them about in the middle of the case. I was also ejecting shorter than my other ar did and it was a bit foreward or straight out to the side. The gun also seemed to recoil a bit harder than it should have. Used PMC, Privi, and XM193. As we were picking up, I noticed the same wear mark you describe at the back of the ejection port and nothing on the shell deflector.
With it being a middy and having a m16 FA bcg I would think it would be undergassed if anything. I wonder if the upgraded ejector and extractor springs on the super duty bcg have anything to do with it. I must say though, the gun ran like a champ with no failures yet so I am a bit hesitant to mess with it...but I'm going to anyway.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/28/2009 11:53:21 AM EST
I have a Tactical Springs M4 Carbine Buffer Spring, H2 Buffer and BMC Bolt Upgrade kit coming for mine. Hope the big brown truck show up today
Link Posted: 8/28/2009 10:26:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2009 4:48:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dano523:
Originally Posted By tigs40cal:
The last couple of times I have shot my M&P15A (M193)I have noticed the the brass is ejecting straight out or forward of ejection port. There is a small shiny spot on the back of the ejection port in front of the deflector. No marks on deflector so I guess the brass is hitting the back of the port and ejecting out and forward. Is this an extractor spring problem?



With different ammo's being used in a rifle (read not tuned for just one, and it only run), spent cases out the ejection port is the whole idea and not a set ejection path. If you are trying to turn your rig for one type of ammo, that is great, but don't think that ejection path will be the norm for all the ammo's being used if different types.
Ejection pattern is not the real issue. My rifle has gone through a change in the last 150 - 200 rounds. I am just trying to insure trouble is not on the horizon.

Link Posted: 8/29/2009 6:09:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2009 7:30:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2009 2:36:16 AM EST by tigs40cal]
Here is a pic where casings are striking. Looks like the back edge of ejection port and leading edge of deflector.



A pic of the charging handle pulled back 100%. Bolt sticks past rear of ejection port 1/8"-3/16".



I measured the buffer spring and it is 10-7/8" relaxed. The buffer is 3-1/4" total end to end.
Link Posted: 8/29/2009 9:09:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2009 7:31:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2009 7:57:41 AM EST by tigs40cal]
Installed a BMC extractor spring and off to the range I go this morning. Fired 8 rounds and brass ejecting straight out with one still going a little forward. Not one mark on the deflector . Then I changed out my stock buffer with the new H2 buffer and spring and wow . Shooting way softer than ever and all brass ejecting a little to the rear and striking the deflector just right. Happy days
Link Posted: 9/21/2009 9:08:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By tigs40cal:
Installed a BMC extractor spring and off to the range I go this morning. Fired 8 rounds and brass ejecting straight out with one still going a little forward. Not one mark on the deflector . Then I changed out my stock buffer with the new H2 buffer and spring and wow . Shooting way softer than ever and all brass ejecting a little to the rear and striking the deflector just right. Happy days


just curious, did you use the red or the blue spring from tactical spring?
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