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Posted: 8/22/2017 6:34:30 PM EDT
Figured I would start a new thread on how to complete this mod for the echo trigger:

Results:
The semi-mode trigger pull is right around 3lbs.  
Echo mode initial pull is roughly 3.5lbs and the echo reset is a hair over 4.5lbs.
The back up disconnector spring I used was a 55 in/lb spring from centuryspring.com, part number “ 70193 “

This is the step by step process on how I change out the disconnector springs for the echo trigger.  The spring I replaced was the under the back up disconnector; for this one, the semi & echo disconnectors have factory springs.


Remove the hiperfire springs by placing your hand over the hammer pushing up on the tail end of the trigger pack:
Attachment Attached File


Next I removed the hammer and hammer spring.  This should push out with a little force or light hammer taps and a punch:
Attachment Attached File


Take a close look at how the disconnectors sit in the trigger pack:
Attachment Attached File


Tap out the large pin that holds the disconnectors with a punch and hammer (face on view, the semi disconnector, with the tail, will be on the right.  Echo disconnector will be on the left).  For this trigger, the factory disconnector springs were different.  I kept the stiffer spring under the echo disconnector, and the lighter spring under the semi disconnector.  On my newer echo both springs were the same:
Attachment Attached File


Remove the trigger section from the trigger pack frame:
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 6:38:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Cont’d

Below is the back-up disconnector spring that was replaced with part # 70193 from centuryspring.com:
Attachment Attached File


Press forward on the back-up disconnector and the spring will pop out of place (great because removing the pin that the c-clip is holding is a PITA):
Attachment Attached File


Replace the spring and press the bottom of the spring with a small punch, while pulling the disconnector back.  It should pop into place without too much force:
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 6:41:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Cont’d

Put the semi disconnector spring into the right-side hole (looking face on) and place the semi disconnector over the spring:Attachment Attached File


Slide the trigger back into the frame (you will have to press down on the disconnector for this):
Attachment Attached File


Take one of the large pins and push through the hole from the opposite side of the semi disconnector.  An easy way I found was place the pin on the bench (or a piece of wood), partially through the hole, while pressing down on the disconnector shelf with a punch, and lifting up on the tail end of the trigger (under the back-up disconnector).  Then I press down on the trigger pack to push the pin through:
Attachment Attached File


Then take the other pin and insert from the same side as the semi disconnector, using the same technique above.  You want it to go far enough to hold the semi disconnector while also leaving a gap for the echo disconnector:
Attachment Attached File


I use a punch small enough to fit in the echo disconnector spring so that it will slide off the punch.  Place the echo disconnector spring into the spring notch:
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 6:46:04 PM EDT
[#3]
cont'd

Slide the hole in the bottom of the echo disconnector over the spring.  Make sure the spring stays in the notch of the trigger pack:
Attachment Attached File


Press down on the shelf of the echo disconnector while pushing up on the tail end and press pin through echo disconnector hole (same as the semi disconnector above):
Attachment Attached File


I use a punch to help wiggle through the hole once both disconnectors are on the pin:
Attachment Attached File


Should look like this once completed:
Attachment Attached File


Put hammer and pin back.  From here you put the hiperfire springs back (can be found online).  Below is a picture the direction the little shelf should be on the hiperfire springs:
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 6:49:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Lastly here are the pictures of the trigger gauge:

Semi:
Attachment Attached File


Echo Initial Pull:
Attachment Attached File
'

Echo Reset:
Attachment Attached File



If you have any questions let me know.

I did test this in a 300 blk 8 in pistol.  5 mag dumps supers & 5 mag dumps subs (brought my oven mitt).  No issues, worked as advertised.

It's been fun!
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 7:29:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Very cool! Thanks for the detailed write-up!
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 11:34:32 PM EDT
[#6]
awesome and very thorough write up

two thumbs up
Link Posted: 9/29/2017 12:30:49 AM EDT
[#7]
I've done this now to all of my echos... if you do this mod as well, please share your results.
Link Posted: 9/29/2017 10:28:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've done this now to all of my echos... if you do this mod as well, please share your results.
View Quote
Did you take yours out yet?  If so, how did it go?
Link Posted: 10/6/2017 12:56:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:


Did you take yours out yet?  If so, how did it go?
View Quote
Mine went great - an absolute night and day difference in the trigger. The only difficult part about the whole process was getting the bushing back through both disconnectors.
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 3:49:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Yeah I just had it out functioned safe  two rounds through semi i just thought about pulling the trigger and it went off flawlessly, i just unloaded the weapon threw it on each side and  slammed it on the buttock and the hammer did not drop confirmed with dry fire. echo was amazing it truly is night and day the rest of the 8 rounds went of quick like second nature disclosure i have green hiperfire springs and the bushing mod done. also echo felt like you just rock the trigger and it goes but each movement was still deliberate
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 3:58:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Btw the disconnectors sucked i mean SUCKED a slave pin would have worked? But after that its worth a try
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 4:09:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Are you going to make a YouTube video? Maybe have Michael bell show it? I just received my springs and I will mess with it in a few weeks.
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 4:37:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Are you going to make a YouTube video? Maybe have Michael bell show it? I just received my springs and I will mess with it in a few weeks.
View Quote


I have reached out to Mr. Bell about and sent a spring his way. We'll see if he includes that in his video. That said, the instructions here are actually really good.
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 6:29:40 PM EDT
[#14]
I can't quite make out the pictures with the trigger pull weights. Can you type them out.

Also do you have trigger pull weights of the factory springs.
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 6:37:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Very nice instructions. Are you using the gen 2 lever and standard M16 carrier?
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 8:19:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I can't quite make out the pictures with the trigger pull weights. Can you type them out.

Also do you have trigger pull weights of the factory springs.
View Quote
Results:
The semi-mode trigger pull is right around 3lbs.
Echo mode initial pull is roughly 3.5lbs and the echo reset is a hair over 4.5lbs.

Don’t remember exact pull weights of the original, but the echo test was over 9lbs for me.  That was even after both bolt carrier and bushing mods.

Also to the other poster,  I’ve done this on both of my gen1 & gen 2 triggers and both ended up identical.
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 8:31:31 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Btw the disconnectors sucked i mean SUCKED a slave pin would have worked? But after that its worth a try
View Quote
Ha!  Yeah it’s hard to explain without video , but I guess I could have had tits hold the camera!  I’ve done it about 15 times at this point (tried multiple spring variations prior to this one) so its pretty easy now.  I tried my best to explain.

ElAlto  did a slave pin that worked well for him, but I was showing a way without having to fashion something else.
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 8:53:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Yeah and with the little ears that hold the hammer pin it was a little nerve racking trying to actually put pressure on the frame to twist that pin into the disconnectors
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 11:52:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Great....... I bought a FOSTECH II and there is no mention of the carrier possibly needing to be altered or MIM parts etc etc.... They do say it has cutting edge technology. Funny how they have this written on their page now. "ALL ORDERS ARE FINAL. FOSTECH DOES NOT ACCEPT RETURNS. THE ECHO AR-II TRIGGER IS BACKORDERED A MINIMUM OF 30 DAYS!!!" But if it is so cutting edge and made so good why have this disclaimer??
Link Posted: 10/9/2017 12:25:12 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Great....... I bought a FOSTECH II and there is no mention of the carrier possibly needing to be altered or MIM parts etc etc.... They do say it has cutting edge technology. Funny how they have this written on their page now. "ALL ORDERS ARE FINAL. FOSTECH DOES NOT ACCEPT RETURNS. THE ECHO AR-II TRIGGER IS BACKORDERED A MINIMUM OF 30 DAYS!!!" But if it is so cutting edge and made so good why have this disclaimer??
View Quote
Bro, relax.  They make a good trigger and the very few issues I've seen, they replace.  If you don't like it, due to the current times, you could probably sell it for more than you paid for it.  I've shot over 1000 rounds and no issues.

Trigger works fine, even better if you like to tinker.  Could they have done some better R&D before shipping out the first triggers?  Absolutely!  But they are not as bad as some of you are making it out to be.  

If you have the gen2, what carrier mods are you talking about?  That was on the gen1 models.
Link Posted: 10/10/2017 11:29:29 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Great....... I bought a FOSTECH II and there is no mention of the carrier possibly needing to be altered or MIM parts etc etc.... They do say it has cutting edge technology. Funny how they have this written on their page now. "ALL ORDERS ARE FINAL. FOSTECH DOES NOT ACCEPT RETURNS. THE ECHO AR-II TRIGGER IS BACKORDERED A MINIMUM OF 30 DAYS!!!" But if it is so cutting edge and made so good why have this disclaimer??
View Quote
Yeah dude out the box it's worth the money and 30 days ain't shit i waited 10 months and the tuning turns it into the best ar accessory on the market ever concieved of once you get it you will love it  then want to make it even better come talk to us then
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 2:19:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Ok just did the trigger pull test at the gun shop, similar numbers as above for echo i was just above 3 pounds on the initial pull, echo was hard to determine because your measuring over travel till reset but it was just above 4 pounds. semi lowest was 1 pound 10 ounces averaged just above 2 pounds we threw out the low number bc it was taken on the tip of the trigger (which is how i shoot precision tip of trigger in middle of tip of finger)

Green hiperfire springs with bushing mod and new bud spring

LOVE IT
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 2:24:07 PM EDT
[#23]
Question on the pics above do you have the bushing mod done or was that a fostech redesign  of your did it your self nice work im running a piece of weed wacker fuel line wanting to switch it to cleaning rod soon

And had anyone tried polishing that finish they have on the sear surfaces if so process? And how did it turn out
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 2:33:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Not sure weather to love it or hate it but the break in semi is almost blind it is hard to twill when its getting ready to break can somone explain how single and double stage is supposed to work just every one of my triggers i know its going to go even the single stage mil specs but maybe this one is so light its hard to tell but I've never shot a real precision trigger just stuff ice polished and either swapped or cut springs on and people really like my results
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 3:32:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 5:51:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Not sure weather to love it or hate it but the break in semi is almost blind it is hard to twill when its getting ready to break can somone explain how single and double stage is supposed to work just every one of my triggers i know its going to go even the single stage mil specs but maybe this one is so light its hard to tell but I've never shot a real precision trigger just stuff ice polished and either swapped or cut springs on and people really like my results
View Quote
It’s not a precision trigger, lets make that clear.  I look at the trigger as a single stage with a little creep.  The bushing I have was an aluminum bushing that I got from eBay based on mbell’s video.  

Interesting info with the 2lb  initial pull on echo.  I didn’t have those numbers with either of my triggers.  Not horrible since it’s set in echo mode.
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 7:05:45 PM EDT
[#27]
2 lb was semi the green springs have alot to do with that
Link Posted: 10/14/2017 9:06:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Lol didn’t even dissemble mine just released the trigger, pushed the piece forward, popped the old spring out with a dental tool, pushed the new spring in, maybe had 10 seconds of labor invested in it.  
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 10:32:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Can yall provide websites and part numbers for the mods talked about?

I read the one listed from centuryspring its backorderd which is fine. But Where do I buy these green springs Im reading about and a bushing mod??

Thanks!
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 11:37:14 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Lol didn’t even dissemble mine just released the trigger, pushed the piece forward, popped the old spring out with a dental tool, pushed the new spring in, maybe had 10 seconds of labor invested in it.  
View Quote
Wow, for those who have done this, is there anything wrong with doing it this way?
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 7:57:27 AM EDT
[#31]
Shot mine yesterday in a QD lower, lighter pull and release worked fine granted I only ran 3 30 round mags through it
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 9:39:48 AM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Wow, for those who have done this, is there anything wrong with doing it this way?
View Quote
You could do it that way.  I couldn’t get it to go far enough forward to where I was comfortable that I wouldn’t damage the original spring.  

When we originally started looking at the springs we were also replacing the semi & echo disconnector springs.
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 7:01:51 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Can yall provide websites and part numbers for the mods talked about?

I read the one listed from centuryspring its backorderd which is fine. But Where do I buy these green springs Im reading about and a bushing mod??

Thanks!
View Quote
Green springs were hyperfire on their website the bushing is a clipped 22 cleaning brush from your cleaning kit all of the info is in the original echo thread the pages right after were all bitching about the pre-order im curious where someone had the right specs the bushing in the pics is very nice and the green springs bring caution they were causing my hammer to hang at first worked itself out after i left the hammer cocked over night
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 7:05:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


You could do it that way.  I couldn’t get it to go far enough forward to where I was comfortable that I wouldn’t damage the original
View Quote
Yeah ultimately if that is possible for you i would leave the thing together the original spring went flying anyway still haven't found it. But if i knew the dc pin was that much of a pita i would have cut that old spring out of there and twisted the new one to fack to get it back in
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 3:27:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Well what did I do wrong?

I replaced the spring and nothing really changed. BTW the disconnectors are a bitch to reinstall. I think I'll make a slave pin for the future. My pulls in semi are around 4 lbs and in echo 5-5.5 lbs. Nothing has really changed from before the mod. Did I do something wrong?

Semi



Echo

Link Posted: 10/18/2017 4:05:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Does this mod improve the function on release?  My echo II didn't work too well with a standard carbine buffer and a 14.5" barrel.  Maybe I need a H2 or H3 buffer in the lower?
Link Posted: 10/20/2017 9:13:30 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Well what did I do wrong?

I replaced the spring and nothing really changed. BTW the disconnectors are a bitch to reinstall. I think I'll make a slave pin for the future. My pulls in semi are around 4 lbs and in echo 5-5.5 lbs. Nothing has really changed from before the mod. Did I do something wrong?

Semi

https://i.imgur.com/BAYR834.jpg

Echo

https://i.imgur.com/gwm3CTs.jpg
View Quote
What was your original pull weight for the echo reset?  I only ask because mine was 10+ lbs.  Do you have a gen 1 or gen 2 trigger lock?  Busing mod or bolt carrier mod?  Need more info to help.
Link Posted: 10/20/2017 9:41:45 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


What was your original pull weight for the echo reset?  I only ask because mine was 10+ lbs.  Do you have a gen 1 or gen 2 trigger lock?  Busing mod or bolt carrier mod?  Need more info to help.
View Quote
I have three ECHOs one had a problem with echo mode and I sent it back. It would not reset. They replaced the hammer lock with the new design and it worked great. All have an average of 4.5 lbs in semi and 5.5 lbs in ECHO.

The ECHO I did the mod to was in my AR9. It is the gen one hammer lock. I have several 9mm bolts that have been modded to work in it. The original pull weight in ECHO was around 5.5 lbs. Nothing changed when I installed the spring. I was able to shoot it today and it works fine. The trigger in ECHO and semi work/feel the same as it did before the mod. Any ideas why this did not reduce my pull weight down to 3? I am thinking I will leave me other ECHOs alone since they run fine. By the way no bushing mod
Link Posted: 10/20/2017 10:04:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I have three ECHOs one had a problem with echo mode and I sent it back. It would not reset. They replaced the hammer lock with the new design and it worked great. All have an average of 4.5 lbs in semi and 5.5 lbs in ECHO.

The ECHO I did the mod to was in my AR9. It is the gen one hammer lock. I have several 9mm bolts that have been modded to work in it. The original pull weight in ECHO was around 5.5 lbs. Nothing changed when I installed the spring. I was able to shoot it today and it works fine. The trigger in ECHO and semi work/feel the same as it did before the mod. Any ideas why this did not reduce my pull weight down to 3? I am thinking I will leave me other ECHOs alone since they run fine. By the way no bushing mod
View Quote
Both of mine (gen1 & gen2) have the bushing mod done.  The spring was in addition to the original mods that were done in mbell’s videos.  I also hear the green hiperfire springs change things, but you are better off trying the cheap bushing mod first.
Link Posted: 10/20/2017 11:28:51 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Both of mine (gen1 & gen2) have the bushing mod done.  The spring was in addition to the original mods that were done in mbell’s videos.  I also hear the green hiperfire springs change things, but you are better off trying the cheap bushing mod first.
View Quote
The bushing will not work in my AR9 because it has a milled out FA pocket. QC10 made their lower like that. If I put in the bushing it falls off during fire. I wonder if a very weak spring would give the similar results of the bushing
Link Posted: 10/21/2017 11:41:35 AM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The bushing will not work in my AR9 because it has a milled out FA pocket. QC10 made their lower like that. If I put in the bushing it falls off during fire. I wonder if a very weak spring would give the similar results of the bushing
View Quote
You could try that.  Look up the dimensions of the 70193 (length, o.d., etc) spring and they have some lighter weight springs that size.  

You could also try tinkering with the semi and echo disconnectors.  Thats what I started with first.

Let me see if I can find those dimensions and I can post them later.
Link Posted: 10/21/2017 12:28:09 PM EDT
[#42]
Imo the green springs made a ton of difference not too much either i think they were 6 bucks plus shipping
Link Posted: 10/21/2017 12:40:55 PM EDT
[#43]
https://www.hiperfire.com/product/762x39-spring-combo/ here is the link

Do you have the one for that bushing you got off of ebay? It's very nice i would like to get one
Link Posted: 11/9/2017 2:46:21 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Lol didn’t even dissemble mine just released the trigger, pushed the piece forward, popped the old spring out with a dental tool, pushed the new spring in, maybe had 10 seconds of labor invested in it.  
View Quote
I did exactly this as well. Did the removal and reinstall in a large, 2 gallon baggie just in case a spring when flying. No damage to spring. Lifting the spring with a thin screwdriver while pushing up on the assembly did the trick. Reinstall was easier. Insert the spring top first and then gently nudge it into position until it "snaps" into the lower detent hole.
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