Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
PSA
Member Login

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 7/1/2005 8:28:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 4:04:54 PM EDT by Kevin]
Link Posted: 7/1/2005 9:01:20 PM EDT
I really need to save my money for one of those.
Link Posted: 7/1/2005 9:04:58 PM EDT
those pics need to be posted in the reticle thread!





just notice how the 3x intensifies the grainy eothing reticle.
thanks for the pics
Link Posted: 7/1/2005 9:12:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2005 9:13:10 PM EDT by TalonArms_R]
Link Posted: 7/1/2005 11:56:00 PM EDT
That really shows why you need the 2 moa Aimpoint.  The 4 moa is HUGE.
Link Posted: 7/2/2005 1:19:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Maverick656:
That really shows why you need the 2 moa Aimpoint.  The 4 moa is HUGE.




i actually think its perfect.



being that the aimpoint is a cqb optic design for getting off quick shots, with the 3x it would be easier to pick up and acquire a target imho.


Link Posted: 7/2/2005 7:55:57 AM EDT
How much does the 3X unit and it's mount weigh (by themselves)?

Paladin
Link Posted: 7/3/2005 1:31:32 AM EDT
Thats the same set up i was thinking about, it looks great, Is there any problems with ejected cases hitting the 3x when it is flipped up out of the way, and does it cowittnes perfectly with eotech. And for the big ? how much does the 3X and flip mount cost?
Link Posted: 7/3/2005 5:25:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2005 5:30:05 AM EDT
Nice.  I still haven't seen one range report using one of these, nor one durability report.  Will this be it?  Besides, I still don't get the concept, but I'm a slow b@st@rd, anyway.
Link Posted: 7/3/2005 5:38:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2005 5:47:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wave:
OK, I have an EOTech already. What else do I need to purchase to complete the set up as pictured above?




from the looks of it just the samson/arms flip mount and the 3x
Link Posted: 7/3/2005 5:48:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
The veiw through the magnifier and EoTech is much clearer than the one through the magnifier and Aimpoint. The Aimpoint has a real blue hue to it. I suppose thats because you are looking through 4 different lenses?




i have never really noticed the blue tint till these pics.
Link Posted: 7/3/2005 5:49:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Nice.  I still haven't seen one range report using one of these, nor one durability report.  Will this be it?   Besides, I still don't get the concept, but I'm a slow b@st@rd, anyway.





this is what im shooting for, would like to see what its worth.

Link Posted: 7/5/2005 12:59:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 1:01:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2005 1:03:16 PM EDT by TalonArms_R]
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 1:33:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 1:36:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2005 1:37:10 PM EDT by mongo001]

Originally Posted By TalonArms_R:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Nice.  I still haven't seen one range report using one of these, nor one durability report.  Will this be it?  Besides, I still don't get the concept, but I'm a slow b@st@rd, anyway.



My first tests
new-arguy's first test

As for durability, what can go wrong? Anything that can smash your 3x will smash your optic. You can't loose zero on the 3x and it is rubber coated.


The quick and dirty info on the concept:
Aimpoint was asked to produce a magnifed optic that worked as well as an ACOG, but did not sacrifice the CQB superiority of the M2.  Aimpoint's 2x sucks, so they developed the 3x.
Samson stepped it up a notch by making the system work for patrol and combat operations by not having to remove the optic and put it your pocket.
Magnified out on the street and flipped over when kicking in doors.
With more and more military orders rolling in, I am guessing these might issued gear soon.






Ok, conceptually that makes sense.  Having never really kicked in a door with carbine in hand, I'd opt to remove the 3X, rather than have it hanging out there just begging for something to grab it, but that's just my nondoor kicking, couch sitting, geer queer take on that.
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 1:55:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
The veiw through the magnifier and EoTech is much clearer than the one through the magnifier and Aimpoint.



I will have to agree, the Eotech does look to have far better clarity in these photos.  


TalonArms_R; that is a very nice setup.
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 1:58:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 2:23:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TalonArms_R:

Originally Posted By mongo001:

Originally Posted By TalonArms_R:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Nice.  I still haven't seen one range report using one of these, nor one durability report.  Will this be it?  Besides, I still don't get the concept, but I'm a slow b@st@rd, anyway.



My first tests
new-arguy's first test

As for durability, what can go wrong? Anything that can smash your 3x will smash your optic. You can't loose zero on the 3x and it is rubber coated.


The quick and dirty info on the concept:
Aimpoint was asked to produce a magnifed optic that worked as well as an ACOG, but did not sacrifice the CQB superiority of the M2.  Aimpoint's 2x sucks, so they developed the 3x.
Samson stepped it up a notch by making the system work for patrol and combat operations by not having to remove the optic and put it your pocket.
Magnified out on the street and flipped over when kicking in doors.
With more and more military orders rolling in, I am guessing these might issued gear soon.






Ok, conceptually that makes sense.  Having never really kicked in a door with carbine in hand, I'd opt to remove the 3X, rather than have it hanging out there just begging for something to grab it, but that's just my nondoor kicking, couch sitting, geer queer take on that.




If you let somebody get close enough to grab your optic, they are not going for your optic.
You have to keep your muzzel toward your enemy, or suspected enemy.
Look at it this way. You are on patrol and somebody takes a shot at you from a house. You engage the window with the magnified optic hoping to catch a glimpse of the asshat taking shots at you.
You see the guy pulled back from the window and you take your shot and now you have to go in.
Instead of taking off the optic and putting it in your pocket, or worse, dropping it, kicking it and pissing off your patrol leader; you just hit the lever, flip the optic and go through the door.

If you KNOW you are going house to house, then remove the whole thing with the ARMS throw lever and put it away.
The Quick Flip is specificly designed to get the magnifed optic clear of your sight picture NOW.
Like the EOTech add says "Speed saves lives."

Besides, the 3x flipped does not stick out any further than a light mounted on an offset.






I meant something, not someone.  You say it flips over for CQB, that likely means in and out of many places, doors, buildings, etc..  Having just taken part of Pat Rogers carbine operators class, I know of many times where the muzzle is pointed in places other than at the enemy - low ready and indoor ready are two that come to mind.  Busting through a door in a stack, something I have never done but seen many times, I'd rather not have a device of that size hanging off the side of my carbine.  But, then again, it's no bigger than a SF light so maybe I'm overthinking it, but here's something that makes sense to me - If it's not mission critical, take it off.  Mr. Murphy will find it if you don't.
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 3:54:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 4:07:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2005 4:07:31 PM EDT by mongo001]

Originally Posted By TalonArms_R:
Trust me. With the quanity of 3x and QFs that are starting to see use overseas, you are going to see more and more of these showing up in carbine classes everywhere. Hopefully you will get a chance to shoot with one.



Having been through part of a carbine class, I'd see no use for the 3X.  Other people's MMV.  Thanks for all the info.
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 8:13:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 8:49:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TalonArms_R:

Cases will hit the 3x when flipped, but mine has about 500 hits and it looks brand new. They don't hit with ebough force to even leave a mark.
It does co-witness perfectly when the EOtech is mounted directly to a flat top. It will NOT work with any non-milspec hight mount like a LaRue or RRA.
As for a price, email me at talonarms@prodigy.net because it is too low to print here.



Nice write up....just hope Grant doent pop in here or you'll have a hard time convincing him that LaRue is not Mil Spec
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 9:14:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
The veiw through the magnifier and EoTech is much clearer than the one through the magnifier and Aimpoint. The Aimpoint has a real blue hue to it. I suppose thats because you are looking through 4 different lenses?



IIRC the blue is from the tinting used to reflect the red dot off the lens and back to you.  That coating results in a slight blue tint.
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 9:35:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Having been through part of a carbine class, I'd see no use for the 3X.  Other people's MMV.  Thanks for all the info.



Depends on what you're doing.  For most of my carbine classes I'd agree with you.  When most of your shooting is up close and personal there is no need for magnification.  Also if you're in confined spaces (like a building) magnification is just a hinderance.

However if you plan on being outsied (say perimeter duty as an LEO - or just bugging out from your office to home per the FIRE simulator) then magnification really has it's uses.  Magnification allows you to see what that man is carrying is it a rifle or a tool?  (is he a legitimate target or not?).  It also allows you to see into area where you un-aided eye cannot - like darkened windows or behind bushes.
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 1:08:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
The veiw through the magnifier and EoTech is much clearer than the one through the magnifier and Aimpoint. The Aimpoint has a real blue hue to it. I suppose thats because you are looking through 4 different lenses?



IIRC the blue is from the tinting used to reflect the red dot off the lens and back to you.  That coating results in a slight blue tint.



This is the answer.  Its why all reflected dots have blue glass.  Dr Optic, Kobra, Aimpoint, Reflex, OKO, etc all have it to varying degrees.
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 2:55:17 PM EDT
Having kicked in doors with an acog I can tell you that if you can shoot an acog cqb then there is no reason to take the\ 3x off. That is if you go from building to building like the thing was designed for. Anyone understanding the BAC will know that if the 3x causes the aimpoint or eotech to work the same way your brain will focus on the target while moving the weapon quickly and not the magnification. This does take a little getting used to and really would only hinder you if you dont have practice (or BAC type concept doesnt work for you) and you need to take really precise shots. For the most part with CQB you are mostly point shooting since using really well aimed shots could get you killed. Again this is where practive comes in.

The flipside would be running out of the building you have already cleared to go to the next one and when you go to stack on the other door someone down the street across another phase line or something pops up and you cant tell if he or she has a camera or a RPG. That could go REAL BAD if you cap CNN.
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 4:08:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TalonArms_R:
Originally Posted By Va_Punisher:

It does co-witness perfectly when the EOtech is mounted directly to a flat top. It will NOT work with any non-milspec hight mount like a LaRue or RRA.



Why doesn't it work with a LaRue, just an interface issue or a lack of cowitness issue?  

The LaRue raises the heigth of the EoTech and the magnifier to the same height so it's still all on the same plane, isn't it?  Is there not enough spacing between the two LaRue mounting pads to accomodate the magnifier while maintaining control access, or does the Samson mount use more than two slots?  If control access is the issue, couldn't you just flip the magnifier over to the side to gain access?

If loss cowitness capability is the issue, it doesn't look like a BUIS would work if mounted just on the flattop from your picture above.
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 4:18:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Having been through part of a carbine class, I'd see no use for the 3X.  Other people's MMV.  Thanks for all the info.



Depends on what you're doing.  For most of my carbine classes I'd agree with you.  When most of your shooting is up close and personal there is no need for magnification.  Also if you're in confined spaces (like a building) magnification is just a hinderance.

However if you plan on being outsied (say perimeter duty as an LEO - or just bugging out from your office to home per the FIRE simulator) then magnification really has it's uses.  Magnification allows you to see what that man is carrying is it a rifle or a tool?  (is he a legitimate target or not?).  It also allows you to see into area where you un-aided eye cannot - like darkened windows or behind bushes.



Understood.  Out to 100yds and maybe a little beyond, I'm perfectly comfortable with an Aimpoint/EOTech and my eyes for target ID.  Very few perimiters will extend past that and if they are that far or farther, there will be a shooter there with real glass to take care of the issue.  If I wanted BAC, I'd go ACOG with an Aimpoint in the ruck/range bag/trunk of the car.  That setup looks heavy and busy.  

Can you see clearly into dark places with a lit reticle in the way?  Seems that would hinder your "night vision", at least a little bit.

Just posing the other side, as professional couch commandos see it, keeping the topic lively and active.

You guys must live in some deep, dark, nasty holes to come up with all these scenarios.  I'm comfortable and happy living 30 miles from East Detroit and Dearborn.
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 7:33:15 PM EDT
Here is my range report.
100 yard targets with the Aimpoint M3 sighted in for 100 yards using the 3X Magnifier.


Using this weapon, the bipod, and 75 grain TAP.


I was amazed at how fast you could place your shots into the 2 MOA dot, firing pretty quickly I expected some real fliers, but didn't get any.

Link Posted: 7/7/2005 7:28:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Can you see clearly into dark places with a lit reticle in the way?  Seems that would hinder your "night vision", at least a little bit.


Yes the magnification helps even with the lit reticule (the night course proved that to me).

Bushes were what really suprised me.  During the simulator I had stopped behind some cover and was scanning the area.  You could see that there was a 'potential target' hidden behind a bush at 100y.  With my bare (20/15) vision I could not make it out from where i was.


You guys must live in some deep, dark, nasty holes to come up with all these scenarios.  I'm comfortable and happy living 30 miles from East Detroit and Dearborn.

Well a scenario of 'your walking down a nice safe suburban street with a rifle' you'd be expecting the cops to come arrest you.  What good is a 'jungle walk' without targets?

But the Scenario FIRE uses I though was somewhat realistic for a city dweller.  You're just trying to get from point A to point B during an urban riot (plenty of those over the last 15 years) and there are a variety of 'test situations' along the way - not all of which require shooting.
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 7:29:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Can you see clearly into dark places with a lit reticle in the way?  Seems that would hinder your "night vision", at least a little bit.


Yes the magnification helps even with the lit reticule (the night course proved that to me).

Bushes were what really suprised me.  During the simulator I had stopped behind some cover and was scanning the area.  You could see that there was a 'potential target' hidden behind a bush at 100y.  With my bare (20/15) vision I could not make it out from where i was.


You guys must live in some deep, dark, nasty holes to come up with all these scenarios.  I'm comfortable and happy living 30 miles from East Detroit and Dearborn.

Well a scenario of 'your walking down a nice safe suburban street with a rifle' you'd be expecting the cops to come arrest you.  What good is a 'jungle walk' without targets?

But the Scenario FIRE uses I though was somewhat realistic for a city dweller.  You're just trying to get from point A to point B during an urban riot (plenty of those over the last 15 years) and there are a variety of 'test situations' along the way - not all of which require shooting.



Cool.  Good info on the illum at night.
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 9:25:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/7/2005 9:30:33 AM EDT by TalonArms_R]
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 9:49:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TalonArms_R:

Originally Posted By jmart:

Originally Posted By TalonArms_R:
Originally Posted By Va_Punisher:

It does co-witness perfectly when the EOtech is mounted directly to a flat top. It will NOT work with any non-milspec hight mount like a LaRue or RRA.



Why doesn't it work with a LaRue, just an interface issue or a lack of cowitness issue?  

The LaRue raises the height of the EoTech and the magnifier to the same height so it's still all on the same plane, isn't it?  Is there not enough spacing between the two LaRue mounting pads to accomodate the magnifier while maintaining control access, or does the Samson mount use more than two slots?  If control access is the issue, couldn't you just flip the magnifier over to the side to gain access?

If loss cowitness capability is the issue, it doesn't look like a BUIS would work if mounted just on the flattop from your picture above.



The LaRue EOTech mount will work with a 3x magnifier only if you use a LaRue mount for it.
You can not use a Quick Flip with an EOTech or Aimpoint in a LaRue mount because it will be too high to line up.



What I don't understand is, if everything lines up alright when mounted on a single plane flat top, why wouldn't everything still line up when mounted on a raised platform Eotech mount, as long as everything still stays on a single plane?


I don't think the QF will fit on the LaRue EOTech mount.


Why is that?  Is it a fore and aft thing or does the QF mount require more slots than the back pad of the EoTech mount provides (which I think is 2)?



Even if it did fit, I don't think you would not be able to operate the buttons on the EOTech.
It is an interface issue.



I could envision that with the magnifier in the up and locked position, but it looks like you could flip it over to the side, adjust the Eotech brightness without anything in your way, and then lock it back up.  I can see though that when locked in that position, control access is essentailly non-existant (or at least very tight -- forget about gloves).



The co-witness thing is just a design difference.

A BUIS will work with the QF and magnifier better than any other magnifed optic system.
If you have a low profile BUIS folded under any other scope or ACOG, you have to remove it to get the BUIS to deploy. If you take a hit through the magnifier on a QF, you can just flip it out of the way and flip your BUIS up.  No need to waste time removing anything.



That does sound like a great feature.
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 11:07:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 9:25:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/8/2005 6:04:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2005 4:43:19 PM EDT by jackt308]

Ok, conceptually that makes sense.  Having never really kicked in a door with carbine in hand, I'd opt to remove the 3X, rather than have it hanging out there just begging for something to grab it, but that's just my nondoor kicking, couch sitting, geer queer take on that.h.gif


been there a couple times,and that would be a very bad thing,whacking it on a door jamb.not usually a problem, but stuff happens. lol.i definitely agree,i prefer it off (i've got it set up almost the same on my m1a ebr;don't want that .308 brass hitting my magnifier...personal preference).i've got mine on a gg&g multiflex mount,though.i only use it in those "oh look,there's something far away" (not contact distance) situations,anyway; overwatch,outdoor intensive ops,etc.although,i've got to admit,it is an interesting setup.but the less there is to get hung up,the better
Link Posted: 7/8/2005 9:17:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 6:23:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2005 8:17:47 PM EDT by Duffy]
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 6:24:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TalonArms_R:

Besides, it does have an ARMS throw lever and you can remove it any time.



That's all I've said all along.
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 4:00:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TalonArms_R:

Originally Posted By Va_Punisher:
Thats the same set up i was thinking about, it looks great, Is there any problems with ejected cases hitting the 3x when it is flipped up out of the way, and does it cowittnes perfectly with eotech. And for the big ? how much does the 3X and flip mount cost?



Cases will hit the 3x when flipped, but mine has about 500 hits and it looks brand new. They don't hit with ebough force to even leave a mark.
It does co-witness perfectly when the EOtech is mounted directly to a flat top. It will NOT work with any non-milspec hight mount like a LaRue or RRA.
As for a price, email me at talonarms@prodigy.net because it is too low to print here.

Forgive me because I am new to ARs.  You do mean it will nout work aon a RRA mount like the dominator or something not that it won't work on a RRA flat top right?
Link Posted: 7/9/2005 7:42:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 2:39:09 PM EDT
thank you
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:30:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:11:38 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:34:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
The veiw through the magnifier and EoTech is much clearer than the one through the magnifier and Aimpoint.



I will have to agree, the Eotech does look to have far better clarity in these photos.  





In real use, the Eotech with the 3X gives outstanding clarity, and worked much better for me in all lighting conditions.  The 3X does NOT increase the "grain" of the Eotech reticle, as already mentioned, it simply looks that way because the adjustment is cranked so high for the picture.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 1:11:12 PM EDT
email sent no reply, did you get it???

sean1971paul@yahoo.com

Thanks!
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 3:41:46 PM EDT
Who are you talking to?
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:04:11 PM EDT
So anyone know aprox price with flip mount thing?
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top