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Posted: 1/4/2005 2:44:21 AM EDT
And if so, where can I get one? I've recently come down with 'A1 fever', and while it would be relatively straightforward to assemble a near-perfect A1 clone using my existing rifle's lower, it'd be nice to; 1) have everything be historically accurate, and; 2) have a second rifle altogether, in the truest of ARFCOM traditions.

For that matter, how difficult is it to get proper A1 upper receivers? I've seen photos here and elsewhere of them, so I know they're out there somewhere, but in my casual searching of all the major manufacturers' websites, I have yet to see any for sale. Am I just missing something terribly obvious?

Any help would be most appreciated, so consider this my thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 3:47:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2005 3:47:54 AM EDT by Beowulf]
No one is currently making true A1 uppers or lowers. You can look for a Sendra on the used market (that's what I've got), which were forged and A1 spec. I think some of the EA receivers were A1's as well. The uppers are available as M16A1 take-offs, also on the used market. I have heard a rumor that Fulton Armory may be producing new A1 uppers soon, but don't know if this is true or not.

Link Posted: 1/4/2005 8:32:59 AM EDT
Fulton sells m16a1 and M16 style uppers (with and without out the FA), as well as a lot of other sellers. What makes these untrue uppers?

Every lower for sale new manuf has been A2, which is a stronger lower than either m16a1 or M16.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 8:49:23 AM EDT
I have two Fulton uppers, one is an M16 slick side and the other is a late M16A1 style that has the case deflector (aka 'Brunton Bump') that some refer to as the M16A1M upper. I've yet to see a Fulton A1 style that has the FA but not the deflector. I'd like to see them offer one.

BTW - the Fulton uppers (and their lowers for that matter) are first-class all the way!
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 8:58:00 AM EDT
Early PWA lowers were A1 configuration as well.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 9:39:43 AM EDT
Early Eagle Arms lowers (pre-Armalite) are also A1 configuration. They were reportedly made by LMT.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 10:13:44 AM EDT
The Fulton upper with A1 sights, forward assist, and case deflector is actually a Canadian C7 style upper. It's not a true M16A1 upper.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 11:24:39 AM EDT
forgot about the case deflector on the Fulton upper.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 1:33:45 PM EDT
On page three of the attached thread, the guy from Fulton Armory is talking about them making a true A1 upper, with the FA but without the shell deflector. Maybe if everyone starts calling...

www.warrifles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2117&page=3&pp=10
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 6:35:18 PM EDT
How difficult is it to come accross these A1 receivers? I'm assuming that it's something of an ordeal, given the apparent scarsity of manufacturers that produced A1 lowers and the surpluss nature of the uppers. At any rate, how much would one of these bad boys reasonably set one back?
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 6:59:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2005 7:00:11 PM EDT by Delta-9]
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 8:03:22 PM EDT
No, Delta-9 I had not seen that thread. I read the first page, and didn't see what I was looking for (no forward assist, no A1 lower).

Thanks, though.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 8:16:01 PM EDT
Can one of you gurus set me straight here?

A true A1 rifle would have a "smooth" sided lower, an upper with no FA, A1 style rear sight, the stock would be about an inch shorter, triangular hand guards and a 3 pronged FH. Am I even close?

Thanks
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 11:33:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 2:16:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 2:32:02 PM EDT
Troy: Bingo.

Gregory_K: Good article!
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 9:49:22 PM EDT
Well, after having just checked Fulton Armory's webpage, I see neither A1 uppers or lowers, just pre-A1 slickside receiver parts... I wonder if I ought to email or call them up to see if they're actually going to offer A1 parts in the relatively near future.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 6:48:50 AM EDT
I guess we could call the slab side the "A0" for the M16 and the A1 would be for the M16A1.
Gets confusing with all the "A1" talk.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 7:26:31 AM EDT
Brett_Bass - didn't mean to hijack

Gregory_K and Troy - great info, thanks
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 7:35:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2005 7:42:56 AM EDT by rockytherotty]
I don't think some people really know the difference between M16 "slickside" uppers, true A1 uppers or A1 late model uppers. Here is the scoop...

M16

Original production as seen from 1963-1967. Also typifies Colt commerical SP1 production.

This unit is from a military M16




A1

Introduced in 1967 this version featured the forward assist that was introduced on the Army's XM-16E1 and carried forward officially into the A1 series. Other minor improvements made.

Two versions are pictured below The upper version features the A1 sight and forward assist, as found on a 6550. The lower image is a late model that also featured the case delfector.




Link Posted: 1/6/2005 2:39:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 3:57:32 PM EDT
I would like someone to make a semi receiver like the top M16 receiver in the pic

Link Posted: 1/6/2005 5:38:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 5:54:45 PM EDT
Right now CDNN is selling SP1 uppers with the triangular hangaurds and A1 upper.

www.cdnninvestments.com/arsp1upnewco.html
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 6:42:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
You can get them; all Colt SP1 and Sporter lowers are just like that (though they have a large-hole pivot screw).

-Troy



Hey Troy - my light weight sporter has a small hole pivot screw. I removed it and installed a push pin. Do I misunderstand you or do I have something rare? Purchased the day the ban passed in '94.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 6:44:17 PM EDT
During that time frame any would possible. as every AR manuf was trying to get as many out the door as possible.

One think Colt makes it had to do is track when they made changes.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 12:35:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SamColt:
Can one of you gurus set me straight here?

A true A1 rifle would have a "smooth" sided lower, an upper with no FA, A1 style rear sight, the stock would be about an inch shorter, triangular hand guards and a 3 pronged FH. Am I even close?

Thanks



talking about a colt/Armalite model 01 ?? or M16 ??
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:44:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 7:47:35 AM EDT by shamayim]
Sorry, but the SP1 lower is NOT a dup, by any stretch of the imagination, to an A1, or even an "A0" lower. It's totally w/o any hump, for either the hinge pin spring/detent, or mag catch protector.

The early Sendras are about the closest one can get to a semi auto A1 type lower. I'm just finishing up the metal work on a Rock River lower, "A1ing" it. Since I don't own a milling machine or lathe, I've been doing it by hand, and it's been a real PITA When I get the refinishing done, I'll post some pics.

Was going to do an M16 type also, w/o the mag catch fence, but after the amount of time and energy I've spent on the A1 job, think I'll bite the bullet and try to find an old time original lower.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:15:41 AM EDT
SNS Industries will be making quasi slabside lowers like the ones used on the early XM and CAR series, with a 'fence' for the pivot pin retaining spring and no mag fence - however, it will be black and have the A2 front and rear reinforcements.

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 9:54:14 AM EDT
Aren't some of the older SGW "stop sign" lowers also of the A1 configuration?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 12:27:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 4:40:56 PM EDT by Villafuego]
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 5:09:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 5:35:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 5:39:13 PM EDT by Ekie]

Originally Posted By Villafuego:
Oops.........try this pic
img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/villafuego/palmetto.jpg



That is close, don't look bad at all. But no, the M16A1 did not have a lower like that. The M16A1 had a mag fence. Lowers similar to that were used on Colt's Model 02/602/AR-15/M16, and early Model 603 (read XM16E1).
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