Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 6/16/2009 11:32:28 AM EST
I have finally finished the CAD model, and I'm about to start programming the 4-Axis to make chips for me, but then it occurred to me that it resembles a VLTOR MUR with the angled design. The reason I went with the angled design was to match my lower, and although I don't really plan on selling these, I'm not ruling out the possibility. Do you think these look to much like the MUR to make VLTOR mad if I ever sell them? I don't want to tick anyone off, especially VLTOR. I really like their upper, and if I wasn't making my own, I would probably get a MUR.




One more thing, would anyone be interested in buying one of these? I may do a limited run if people want them.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 11:40:07 AM EST
I would be very careful. In Fact, i would get legal opinions before going forward. Thats awful close.

Link Posted: 6/16/2009 11:53:28 AM EST
too close, especially the modular forward assist/shell deflector design that's unique to vltor. i believe you can make whatever you want for your own use, as long as you don't start selling them.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 11:55:17 AM EST
Why would it matter if it does?
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 12:05:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 12:05:59 PM EST by sd_norske]
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Why would it matter if it does?


It would may violate VLTOR's patent.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 12:20:16 PM EST
I looks almost identical to me. There are aonly some many ways to make an upper receiver but the forward assist / shell deflector maes it appear as though it is a copy of the design.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 12:44:54 PM EST
Yes, I agree it's too close to the Vltor.

You could always change yours a bit by not making it like the Vltor by adding more flat areas instead of sharp points (horizontal lines).

The forward assist area you could make to a different shape, maybe an octagon section instead of a square section like Vltor's.

I would only be tempted in buying your upper if you could meet 10% of the middle of the tolerances of all dimensions and if you sell it real cheap.


Link Posted: 6/16/2009 3:07:55 PM EST
Yeah, I'll probably be making one or two of these for myself. Selling a few was just an after thought. Now that I look at both of them, the MUR is actually a lot different, especially on the right side. Mine is symmetrical with the facets, where it looks like the MUR goes to two flats instead of the three on the left. I made the removable FA / Shell deflector so that it would simplify the manufactureing process... And you can actually change them, unlike the MUR, where you have to send it to the factory. Looking at it, the FA assembly is really different from the MUR's, so I think the only problem would be that it is detachable. I don't think they could get legal on me for just the looks, look at the sun devil uppers, they also have a faceted design to them, just no accessories on the right side.

Are there any VLTOR reps on this forum? I would like to hear their opinion. If they have a problem, I won't sell them. Again, the main purpose is for me to make a upper that perfectly matches my lower, selling them is secondary for me.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 3:17:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 3:24:27 PM EST by 87GN]
Originally Posted By RD001:
Yeah, I'll probably be making one or two of these for myself. Selling a few was just an after thought. Now that I look at both of them, the MUR is actually a lot different, especially on the right side. Mine is symmetrical with the facets, where it looks like the MUR goes to two flats instead of the three on the left. I made the removable FA / Shell deflector so that it would simplify the manufactureing process... And you can actually change them, unlike the MUR, where you have to send it to the factory. Looking at it, the FA assembly is really different from the MUR's, so I think the only problem would be that it is detachable. I don't think they could get legal on me for just the looks, look at the sun devil uppers, they also have a faceted design to them, just no accessories on the right side.

Are there any VLTOR reps on this forum? I would like to hear their opinion. If they have a problem, I won't sell them. Again, the main purpose is for me to make a upper that perfectly matches my lower, selling them is secondary for me.


They're here, but they don't announce themselves. Call 520-408-1944, ask for Eric. Or maybe Kino.

I don't know what, if any, patents cover the MUR, but a detachable FA/deflector assembly would seem to me to be something that would be covered by a patent.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 7:21:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By RD001:
Yeah, I'll probably be making one or two of these for myself. Selling a few was just an after thought. Now that I look at both of them, the MUR is actually a lot different, especially on the right side. Mine is symmetrical with the facets, where it looks like the MUR goes to two flats instead of the three on the left. I made the removable FA / Shell deflector so that it would simplify the manufactureing process... And you can actually change them, unlike the MUR, where you have to send it to the factory. Looking at it, the FA assembly is really different from the MUR's, so I think the only problem would be that it is detachable. I don't think they could get legal on me for just the looks, look at the sun devil uppers, they also have a faceted design to them, just no accessories on the right side.

Are there any VLTOR reps on this forum? I would like to hear their opinion. If they have a problem, I won't sell them. Again, the main purpose is for me to make a upper that perfectly matches my lower, selling them is secondary for me.
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, j/k. I like your design, I believe you are different enough to avoid problems. What tolerance range are you looking at? What is the composition of your billet? I would be interested in your receiver if you choose to sell a few, keep us advised.



Link Posted: 6/16/2009 9:07:35 PM EST
Thanks, It will be 7075 T-6, just like the lower. Most people use this alloy for receivers. I'm hoping VLTOR will see it your way!
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:20:35 AM EST
I'd like one with a deflecter but without a forward assist, how much we looking at?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 8:52:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 8:53:21 AM EST by REDMASTA]
the VLTOR is not even blilet anymore its forged so its not that sharp of angles anyway. I like yours, make them for sale so i can buy one . The only thing I'd change slightly is the forword assist thing. Why not make it a part of the receiver instead of seperate?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 10:05:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By militarymoron:
too close, especially the modular forward assist/shell deflector design that's unique to vltor. i believe you can make whatever you want for your own use, as long as you don't start selling them.

this, looks almost identical to me. Either machine in the forward assist or make it without one and I think you would be good.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 10:54:23 AM EST
I might be interested in one if the price is right.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:11:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By Texaspyro21:
I might be interested in one if the price is right.


+1
I'm willing if you are able........
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:57:14 PM EST
I have your solution....

Make them in 308... DPMS style...
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 1:45:09 PM EST
This is not the place I would be looking for advice on patent infringements. Contact an attorney.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 4:03:30 PM EST
I would not be surprised if they patented the removable brass deflector and forward assist. Remove those and you will probably be alright.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 8:04:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 8:16:35 PM EST by RD001]
Honestly at work today I was discussing the removable FA-deflector and we decided that it would be best to make it interglacial. Fortunately for me, it seems like all of you are of the same mindset. I will revise the design shortly.

Depending on how difficult the final process is to machine the price may vary. It will probably be more than your standard upper. Probably in the range of other billet uppers. Keep in mind these will be superior to forgings.

Thanks for your opinions!

ETA: Yes, Bigriver! If there was more of a source for AR-10 parts, I defiantly would build myself a few! As it is now, I don't see the need to make AR-10 type rifles without any parts for them... Maybe some day
Top Top