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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/30/2005 10:14:41 AM EDT
Does anyone make an A1, Slab Side, or Partial magazine fence lower reciever?....
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 11:43:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 7:00:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 2manytoys:
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=264233



Well, here it is 4 months later, and nobody has seen squat yet..

Sure am glad I just went ahead and milled that spare Rock River lower I had hanging around down to A1 specs.

I'll hold off doing the DPMS to M16 configuration for awhile, to see if these things ever actually come into existance. If so, and the reviews of the early true believers are good, then I'll spare myself the hassle of another self conversion and get one.

But I gotta tell you---I'm dubious.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 7:08:22 PM EDT
I'm feeling the same way shamayim. Dubious.

I piped right up for a partial rail, but by now I'm thinking I'll wait for the second run. If reviews of the first run are positive.

BTW, how much work is involved? I have a slabside lower along with two A2 types, so I can see the difference. But just how difficult is it to actually do? I'm thinking the boss just behind the takedown pin would be the hardest?
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 7:44:21 PM EDT
What exactly are you guys referring to when you are asking for "partial mag fence" receivers? I assume a slabside can be made from a forging by merely milling the area flat with the side of the magwell down to the rim around the bottom opening. If we did this we would prefer not to mess with rim strength and sacrifice part durability. It is possible we could do a run of these but I would want a minimum order of 25 pieces to consider doing it. Once the engineering, programming and setup is done we would consider making it an extra cost option. Show me some pics of exactly what you want.

Leo Williams
Superior Arms
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 7:49:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2005 7:52:33 PM EDT by mobius]

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
I

BTW, how much work is involved? I have a slabside lower along with two A2 types, so I can see the difference. But just how difficult is it to actually do? I'm thinking the boss just behind the takedown pin would be the hardest?



the hardest part, well not hard, but probably a little more costly, would be to program the CNC machine for the M16 or the A1 lower style......if you have ever seen a blank lower, the thing they put in the machine to be milled and worked on, it's basically a large hunk of alumium, that has the basic shape of the lower......there is no detail what-so ever on it, .. all that is done by the machine.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 8:00:37 PM EDT
We source forgings from 2 different companies( Cardinal and Anchor Harvey). It does not matter the vendor, the sides of the part are "finished" as forged. All other areas around the part are either machined or polished in. If this is something that merely needs machined away we could run these fairly easily the more I think about it.

Leo Williams
Superior Arms
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 10:13:39 PM EDT
Lee,

Welcome to the thread.

Here's a picture I just took of my Colt slabside and one of your A2 type lowers:



The A2 type is reinforced at the rear just behind the take down pin and also along the top of the receiver ring. There is also a fillet added to the front pivot pin ears. SP1 semi auto receivers, M16 and M16A1 receiver will all lack the extra material here.

All Colt SP1 semi auto receivers had the larger pivot pin and slab side receivers. The earliest M16 receivers had the standard sized pivot pins but were also slab sided. I think they used a special pivot pin though. Then Colt added a "partial rail" just below the ejection port. Eventually they extended it downwards to protect the mag release button.

I am definately in the market for an affordable M16 type partial rail lower for the M16 kit I bought early this spring. But I'm not interested if the A2 reinforcements/improvements are left on the receiver. I think most of the people in the other thread have stated pretty much the same thing. We would really like something with the most authentic look.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 4:23:58 AM EDT
While it can most definitely be cut from an A2 forging, the hardest part would be figuring the engineering from a photo. I assume the forging dies that made these are proprietary to Colt and the forgings cannot be purchased this way. Doing a lot of less than 25 would be cost prohibitive due to the engineering and trial and error involved in getting it just right. The discerning may always be able to tell the difference between authentic and reproduction. Removing the magwell top fence totally and partially would be the simplest part of this. Recontouring the buttstock ring will be time consuming in both machining and polishing before anodize due to the type of tooling required to get acceptable detail. It will still be difficult to get as crisp of lines along the take down pin detent as the original as forged parts. We CAN do it, the question is whether anyone can AFFORD for us to do it. A group buy would work best in this situation to spread the engineering costs. On a group of 25 would $200 retail be out of line? It will probably take close to an hour to hand polish the modified areas before anodize which will eat up a lot of the extra cost.
Thanks for the business as well. I am surised to see you have one of our receiver you can photograph beside what you are after. We are a relatively new company and appreciate all business.

Leo Williams
Superior Arms
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 4:43:08 AM EDT
I'd be okay with under 200 for the stripped lower.

I'm not a machinist, but I know exactly what you are talking about.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 7:41:56 AM EDT
Leo,
If this group buy was popular, would SA start producing these as a lower you can buy individualy and at any time? I need a slab-side lower for my SP1 and if this were to happen, I'd have to save up some money . If this does happen, would they be finished in the old Colt Grey?
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 7:48:56 AM EDT
I'd be interested in one in the 100-200 price range.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 8:38:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
I'm feeling the same way shamayim. Dubious.

I piped right up for a partial rail, but by now I'm thinking I'll wait for the second run. If reviews of the first run are positive.

BTW, how much work is involved? I have a slabside lower along with two A2 types, so I can see the difference. But just how difficult is it to actually do? I'm thinking the boss just behind the takedown pin would be the hardest?



Did it all by hand, w/files and abrasive paper. Yes, the boss was the hardest part, and yes, the thing was a total bitch to do.

It was a question of realizing that the project was going going to be a killer, AFTER I'd already started it. So it was a question of either finish the damned thing or throwing away a butchered up A2 type lower.

Making an early M16 type lower, w/o the mag fence, will of course be even a worse job, if I go ahead w/it. It's not just a question of milling off the fence. To do it right, you've got to reshape the bottom of the thicker portion, to match the curve on the left side of the reciever.

I'm not looking forward to it.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 8:39:16 AM EDT
I have no defiition of "colt grey" to go by. In most likelihood we would have them painted by an industry partner of ours. He does extremely nice work, its very durable, and can be matched per upper. I'd have to check with him on cost. we would perfer to do these in lots/ groups. The differences in programming are enough that 1 at a time would not be cost effective. I doubt the price would go down on additional runs. The thing I'd have to check on is if the forging has enough meat to make the Large pin standard. It would be easier for us to make them small pin and supply anadapter bushing for the SP1 uppers. Adding new uppers to them would be easier as well. I don't thing there is much trim material on the standard forgings we have.
You will not see them from us in the 100 range unless someone digs up a forging die. If the forgings are available MUCH cost would be removed. The time of machining away A2 lower forgings as required around the buttstock threads and repolishing so they look decent after anodize is a majority of the cost.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 8:48:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2005 8:49:07 AM EDT by Blanco_Diablo]

Originally Posted By Toolman_556:
I have no defiition of "colt grey" to go by. In most likelihood we would have them painted by an industry partner of ours. He does extremely nice work, its very durable, and can be matched per upper. I'd have to check with him on cost. we would perfer to do these in lots/ groups. The differences in programming are enough that 1 at a time would not be cost effective. I doubt the price would go down on additional runs. The thing I'd have to check on is if the forging has enough meat to make the Large pin standard. It would be easier for us to make them small pin and supply anadapter bushing for the SP1 uppers. Adding new uppers to them would be easier as well. I don't thing there is much trim material on the standard forgings we have.
You will not see them from us in the 100 range unless someone digs up a forging die. If the forgings are available MUCH cost would be removed. The time of machining away A2 lower forgings as required around the buttstock threads and repolishing so they look decent after anodize is a majority of the cost.


I think Colt Gret is also known as "sandstorm 9" if that helps any (don't mark that as truth, I'm not sure at all)...I think it's pretty close to the color you have on your lowers now, maybe just a tad bit lighter...I'm not sure since I've never handled one of your lowers. If you look at that picture, the slabside is done in Colt Grey and looks a little lighter in color than the SA lower below it.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 8:49:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2005 8:51:39 AM EDT by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 10:14:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2005 10:16:25 AM EDT by Bumblebee_Bob]
I don't think I would make any with the larger pivot pin hole. Just stick to the standard size, let people use the adapter bushing if they want to use a Colt semi auto upper.

There is quite a bit of difference in color from the black Superior uses and the Colt grey. The pictures don't show it as much because the flash is washing out the black on the Superior receiver. I've got a cheapie camera and that was the best I could do last night at midnight. If I took them outside you would see a big difference.

Thanks shamayim, that's what I figured. And it sounds like way too much work for me.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 11:34:45 AM EDT
Here's two more pictures showing the color difference between the Colt Dark Grey and current Black:





The upper is originally off the slab side lower previously pictured. I'm using an adapter bushing to mate it to the Superior lower pictured here. Quite a bit of difference when they're side by side.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 4:32:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
I don't think I would make any with the larger pivot pin hole. Just stick to the standard size, let people use the adapter bushing if they want to use a Colt semi auto upper.


+1
I'd want an A1 type lower, not a Colt style slabside.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 4:58:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shamayim:
Sure am glad I just went ahead and milled that spare Rock River lower I had hanging around down to A1 specs.


I need a picture, please.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 6:08:48 PM EDT
I have an old Colt A1 upper and Lauer duracoat in the "parker" color is a spot on match if you want to have something to reference first hand. It is the color I did my lower in. The top is the original Colt finish and the lower is the duracoat parker.

Link Posted: 7/31/2005 6:48:30 PM EDT
Id be interested in an early A1 lower.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 7:23:43 PM EDT
I'd take 2......, with the mag fence...
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:35:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:

Originally Posted By shamayim:
Sure am glad I just went ahead and milled that spare Rock River lower I had hanging around down to A1 specs.


I need a picture, please.



I'm in the process of getting the color on it. The A1 upper it's going onto is a really strange creature; darker than the early Sandstrom, but not as dark as current issue. So I've had to mix and match, and finally got a batch that's cliose enough to keep me from going "yuck" when I look at it. Now, if the Georgia weather will get dry enough to allow me to go out and spray it, I may fimally, after nearly a year, be able to show it in public.

Then, I'll have to find a way to post pics. I do not own a digital camera, have never posted a pic on the internet and will have to get my computer manual writer son to walk me thru it.

Have patience. I really do want to show off my handiwork.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:46:44 PM EDT
I thought Mega Machine was making A1 lowers??
www.ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=153544&page=16
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 2:48:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BB:
I thought Mega Machine was making A1 lowers??
www.ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=153544&page=16



1) Mega was talking about making "slabside" lowers, which is NOT an A1 type.

2) He doesn't have any of those either.

so

3) I'll believe it when I see it
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 9:17:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2005 9:19:49 PM EDT by Colt-653]
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 11:27:00 PM EDT
Hey Colt-653,

I'm still standing by "patiently"!!

Currently, I've reserved (I hope!!) 1 of your A1 and 1 of your XM16E1 receivers. Can I add ANOTHER A1 receiver to this order for a total of 3 receivers?

I'm planning on building a full stock, A1 rifle, an early "Slick-side" rifle with a 3 prong flash suppressor and an A1 16" carbine with a L/W barrel.

I'm sure that once your receivers hit the market, you'll be well rewarded for your efforts!! With luck, they will be a follow-up order!!

Thanks in advance!!!!

bergunx
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