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Posted: 10/2/2005 11:38:00 PM EDT
...I am trying to decide if I really need one.  All I use my rifle for is vermen around the house and such. Im not in the miliary or a LEO.  So for an average shooter as myself, do they really help you out with your groups or what.  What benefit would it bring to me. Thanks for your response in advance.One day I will no longer be a noob.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 11:40:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 11:41:04 PM EDT by twonami]
I think it does. Really helps in shot follow up and I also have a gimpy left hand.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 11:43:28 PM EDT
Is your rifle set up already to accept one?

If so, look at it this way: you can pick up a decent one for $20-30
Try it out, if you like it, great!
If not just sell it on the EE and you'll make most of your money back...

my .02
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 11:44:36 PM EDT
I wouldn't go back. It REALLY helps my offhand shooting.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 11:46:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
Is your rifle set up already to accept one?

If so, look at it this way: you can pick up a decent one for $20-30
Try it out, if you like it, great!
If not just sell it on the EE and you'll make most of your money back...

my .02


\

Well,yeah it has a yhm freefloat forend on it. Everything you say is true, I was just wondering what the actual benefits of one was. Thanks guys keep em coming.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 11:46:39 PM EDT
yes. its creates a more natural firing position for most people and helps keep barrel heat off the hand. A cheapy VFG and bolt on rail can be had for $35ish and work fine for non combat shooting needs. CDDN has the combo i believe.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 11:56:55 PM EDT
i like it.





but the magwell tends to work for me too.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:00:05 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:59:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By none_other:
...and helps keep barrel heat off the hand.



I have one on mine because of this reason.  I actually shoot better without it. It may be due to the fact that I shoot some competitive long range rifle matches with position shooting (.308 in AICS).
But when you start dropping the hammer (M16), it gets very warm very quick.  I've heard the barrel gets 7 degrees warmer every round that goes down the bore - that's a 210 degree increase with 1 30 round mag.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:53:06 AM EDT
+1 on it really helps on the follow up shot, I really like them
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:53:56 AM EDT
It helps out.  On long patrols it saves your wrist since it is in a more natural position.

Max
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:02:07 AM EDT
Never seen a personal use for them.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 6:21:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
i like it.
but the magwell tends to work for me too.



Well said. That about sums it up.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 6:32:26 AM EDT
I am definately in favor of having a VFG installed.  I hate shooting without it now!
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 8:04:41 AM EDT
I like them, but I have rigs that are set up without them, too.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 8:08:52 AM EDT
In a day of carbine class shooting, the barrel nut area got too hot to hold in my traditional mag hold.  I had to buy a FVG to continue on the spot.  I'm still gettting used to it and find myself doing mag hold every so often.  Gloves would have helped that day, also, but I didn't have any.  I do now.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 8:37:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 8:38:39 AM EDT by Kal-El]
no, but it looks cool

j/k

i have a VG but i do mag-wel hold alot
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 8:46:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 8:48:28 AM EDT by Forest]

Originally Posted By Southernfried:
...I am trying to decide if I really need one.  All I use my rifle for is vermen around the house and such. Im not in the miliary or a LEO.  So for an average shooter as myself, do they really help you out with your groups or what.  What benefit would it bring to me. Thanks for your response in advance.One day I will no longer be a noob.



It doesn't sound like it would be a big help for you.

The VFG does a couple of things for the shooter:
1) Helps control the muzzle during followup shots - do you often do hammers or controlled pairs when shooting vermin?
2) Better comfort when holding the rifle at low ready for long periods of time - do you hold the rifle at the ready for 20-30 minutes (or more) when searching your yard for these vermin?

It's not about shooting 'smaller groups' on paper - it's about conrol & ergonomics in a fast moving lethal envrionment.

edited to add There is one other think I find the VFG useful for.  If you shoot alot of ammo quickly,  it keeps your hand from getting burned.  So if you like dumping magazine after magazine and don't like how hot the handguard or lowr receiver gets, then you would appreciate a polymere VFG.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 8:50:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 5:26:16 PM EDT
I'm a magwell guy, but when the lower gets hot, I'll use some kind of VFG, whether it was the $14 grip + rail combo special, or my current bipod.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 5:58:37 PM EDT
I use them, I like them, I think they make a difference in what ever it is you ask it makes a difference in...
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 6:08:18 PM EDT
Maybe VFG+BIPOD = GripPod would be good for you.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 6:21:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 6:22:22 PM EDT
I prefer the magwell grip, but I shoot left handed and my thumb get in the way of the ejection port. VFG is the next best thing.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 6:31:02 PM EDT
I just bought a couple for some diehard naysayers.  They were well liked.  (I was one of them)

Fast double taps on steel at CQB are much easier, particularly when transitioning from a rifle suspended from a tac sling.

All things old are new again (think Thompson SMG with VFG).
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 6:33:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ar15club:
Maybe VFG+BIPOD = GripPod would be good for you.




Hey that might work, how much
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 4:56:42 PM EDT
I like them.
i say try one out
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 5:03:46 PM EDT
Great for offhand shooting but if you really want "help" ......learn how to shoot with a sling.....the right way.

Link Posted: 10/5/2005 5:53:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MisterPX:
I'm a magwell guy, but when the lower gets hot, I'll use some kind of VFG, whether it was the $14 grip + rail combo special, or my current bipod.



Is a harris strong enough to be used as a VFG? I don't have a VFG, but I have a bipod on one of my rifles, and this could save me some money. (Something I don't have a whole lot of right now)
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 6:00:33 PM EDT
i have fucked up wrist and the VFG helps me a shitload. Helps to keep the barrel down when shooting to i think. Id have to have one now.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 6:20:56 PM EDT
before I had one I used my harris , then I found  a yankee one for $30. SOLD
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 9:33:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Southernfried:

Originally Posted By ar15club:
Maybe VFG+BIPOD = GripPod would be good for you.




Hey that might work, how much



About $200

check the website www.grippod.com
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 10:03:46 PM EDT
a half ass VFG and half ass bipod for the lowly price of 200
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 10:19:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BeckettOfNevada:
a half ass VFG and half ass bipod for the lowly price of 200

I was thinking the same thing.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:43:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By topgunpilot20:

Originally Posted By BeckettOfNevada:
a half ass VFG and half ass bipod for the lowly price of 200

I was thinking the same thing.



Even though Im a noob, thats more than I want to spend for a grip
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:15:02 AM EDT
no!  hate to be the bad guy but it didn't help me at all.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:28:40 AM EDT
For yard varmints mine works real well along with my LRT 'Battlelight'...
The front end seems to steer and point better for me with a 'tiller' up front.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 7:41:20 AM EDT
I noticed in some pictures that some people have the VFG mounted pretty far forward on their rail.  Is the goal to accomplish a push with the support and pull with the master grip or pull with both?  How stable is push/pull for 50 yards and out?    
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 8:26:40 AM EDT
It does for me lets me hold my weapon close to the shoulder and lets me stay on target better while walking toward my target
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 9:44:57 AM EDT
In the fast paced world of Aricraft Maintenance, we love vert grips.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:53:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BeckettOfNevada:
a half ass VFG and half ass bipod for the lowly price of 200



Ouch!  Get a Harris ($60) and the forearm adapter ($12) and for $72 you can have a good bipod and a half ass VFG!
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:34:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2005 4:37:11 PM EDT by Gimme_A_Carbine]

Originally Posted By MisterPX:

Originally Posted By BeckettOfNevada:
a half ass VFG and half ass bipod for the lowly price of 200



Ouch!  Get a Harris ($60) and the forearm adapter ($12) and for $72 you can have a good bipod and a half ass VFG!



HAHAHA

Until today, most of my current set ups had VFGs.  I love them, and swear by them.  I took my M4gery today and put it back to stock config (removed the RAS, the EOTech, and Magpul stock).  Felt really weird at first (and LIGHT), especially without the VFG.  I shoot better with it than without it, but I wanted a change of pace...I'm sure it'll end up back on at some point.

Airborne
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 11:32:46 PM EDT
It's strong enough. We use the harris bipod as a vertical grip in the army all the time. It helps when you have to keep the rifle up for a while, like when scanning the area. I use it like that frequently when scanning ahead during foot patrols at night. When the (1.6 kg) night scope is mounted on the carry handle, the M16 is very top-heavy.
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