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Posted: 5/16/2005 6:42:22 PM EDT
shot out of a 20" plus barrel?

CRC
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 7:05:37 PM EDT
What is the question again?
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 7:33:13 PM EDT
I think he means, does a 223 in 55gr do the same damage as a 5.56 in 55gr out of a 20" barrel?
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 8:01:01 PM EDT
No. So there.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 8:28:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2005 8:32:51 PM EDT by CRC]
But what if they use the same bullets as the Winchester WB and Q3131 does?

Link Posted: 5/16/2005 9:12:17 PM EDT
Assuming that the projectiles are identical, and the velocity when they hit the target is identical, theoretically they will do the same damage.

The projectile dosnt know if it came from a .223 case... or a 5.56 case.

In the real world, the .223 load starts off at a slower speed (assuming its fired from the same rifle), and thus has a shorter fragmentation range than the 5.56 pressure load. Barrel length, manufacturing variations, and the position of the moon on the date of manufacture will also effect bullet performance.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 9:17:23 PM EDT
It depends on if the ammo was made in the northern hemisphere or the southern hemisphere, where things spin in the opposite direction.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 9:23:22 PM EDT
This post is for posterity.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 10:18:44 PM EDT
Okay so more velocity makes it do more damage.

There isn't a threshold where over a certain velocity the same bullets will act the same in human flesh?
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 12:44:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 1:04:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
But what if they use the same bullets as the Winchester WB and Q3131 does?




They would be the same with the exception that the 223 would have less effective frag range.

I have shot 55gr PMP out of an M4 and it frag'ed just fine.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 5:37:44 AM EDT
If you take the same bullet, such as the one loaded in Q3131A ammo, and put it in a .223 load, such as the Win/Wal-Mart Valu-Pack (and I believe this might be the case although I am not certain), and then fire each out of the same rifle, here is what you will have: The .223 will exit the barrel with about 200 fps less velocity.

Let's say, just for discussion, 3000 fps instead of 3200. This bullet will fragment in flesh at velocities down to around 2700 fps, according to the Ammo Oracle. The .223 will drop below 2700 fps at around 100 yds. The 5.56 will still be doing just over 2700 fps at 150 yds.

So, if you rely on fragmentation as your primary wounding mechanism, then you have to make a choice. If you are not going to address targets any farther than 100 yds, the .223 may suit your purposes just fine. Please note, however, that the greater speed of the 5.56 will always mean greater damage at equivalent yardage.

Let's say you shoot at a target at 100 yds. Wouldn't you rather have the bullet going around 2900 fps, with over 1000 ft/lbs of energy, than traveling around 2700 fps, with around 930 ft/lbs? Needless to say, while I have some of the Valu-Pack in my closet, and would use it for self-defense if it came down to it, it is not what I have loaded in my SHTF mags.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 4:38:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2005 4:39:17 PM EDT by CRC]
If you take the same bullet, such as the one loaded in Q3131A ammo, and put it in a .223 load, such as the Win/Wal-Mart Valu-Pack (and I believe this might be the case although I am not certain)

It is the case and it's the same way with Winchester's 9mm FMJ loads.

Which is why I asked.


At the same velocity (and not the same distance though) if the loads are using the same bullet they should perform the same.

CRC
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 6:07:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
If you take the same bullet, such as the one loaded in Q3131A ammo, and put it in a .223 load, such as the Win/Wal-Mart Valu-Pack (and I believe this might be the case although I am not certain)

It is the case ...

...snip...

CRC



OK -- I hope this is accurate, since I already believe that it is. :-) What I'd like to know is, what is your source for that information, just so I can nail it down in my own mind? I have not been able to confirm this.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 11:33:18 AM EDT
Read the ammo orical and do a search here. You should find MANY posts on different bullet constructions/loads that would answer your question.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 4:46:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By colt100:
Read the ammo orical and do a search here. You should find MANY posts on different bullet constructions/loads that would answer your question.



It's not in the ammo oracle -- that's "oracle", numbnuts -- and as far as searching on arfcom for this kind of information, well, there's two or three people around here whose word I'd take for it. I looked. Didn't find it. So, I'm looking for something authoritative, like from the Winchester's mouth.
Link Posted: 5/18/2005 11:41:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
Okay so more velocity makes it do more damage.

There isn't a threshold where over a certain velocity the same bullets will act the same in human flesh?



I believe the critical range is 2500-2700fps. Below this, there is minimal fragmentation; above it, there is consistent, substantial fragmentation. Bullets striking soft tissue at the low end of this range tend to simply fracture in to two pieces at the cannelure; those at the high end will tend to fragment into many smaller pieces (particularly, the base of the bullet). Above (or below) this range, terminal performance doesn't change dramatically, but there will still be some effect of velocity. Above 2700, the average % fragmentation will gradually increase with velocity.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 10:10:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brerarnold:

Originally Posted By colt100:
Read the ammo orical and do a search here. You should find MANY posts on different bullet constructions/loads that would answer your question.



It's not in the ammo oracle -- that's "oracle", numbnuts -- and as far as searching on arfcom for this kind of information, well, there's two or three people around here whose word I'd take for it. I looked. Didn't find it. So, I'm looking for something authoritative, like from the Winchester's mouth.



First off, I type fast and I didn't know we were being tested on our spelling. You knew what I was refering to. Maybe YOU should be the spelling/english mod so you can go around and correct everyone's grammer.

Second, my post was refering to the origional question, not yours. If the origional poster would read the oracle (is that better??) I believe that a lot of his questions would be answered.

Grow up.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 5:15:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
It depends on if the ammo was made in the northern hemisphere or the southern hemisphere, where things spin in the opposite direction.



+1 I'm glad someone finally brought this up.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 6:44:14 AM EDT
I can't believe CRC has over 8000 posts and he is asking a question like this.
I don't even want to search on his name to see where he got such a high number.

There is only ONE answer to this question.

AMMO ORACLE
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