See some new item. People have made docter-ACOG mount now. The docter looks bigger than the Optima sight. However, its frame is made of metal, Germany product. Believe it is better than the optima? Have anybody compare these two sight?


http://www.specwargear.com/images/saleboard-OptimaDocter%202.jpg


http://www.specwargear.com/images/saleboard-O-D%204.jpg


http://www.specwargear.com/images/saleboard-O-D%205.jpg

http://www.specwargear.com/images/saleboard-O-D%202.jpg


http://www.specwargear.com/images/saleboard-O-D%201.jpg

People are reporting that the Dr sight is tough as nails compared to the optima.  Nice comparison pictures.

I am finding it hard to keep my clothes on while looking at this optic setup. Anyone have an extra $1500.00 dollars laying around that they dont need......I will accept paypal donations without even charging an additional 3%.........

Schweeeeeet look'in ain't it?!

I saw someone mount the Dr to their front dovetail on a TS01 (non-NSN model), I kinda liked that profile.

... Where can you or I buy the [b]Docter Optic[/b] mount?

... Don't say specwargear.com because they don't sell them.

... I would LOVE to abandon my project and just buy one. One thing I noticed about the one shown; notice that mount doesn't match the base. I don't know why an engineer would do that.

Winston I sure hope Spec War sells them I just sent them $64.  They are making them now.  Sorry a bird in the hand...

... No man, don't be sorry. The fun part was the CAD designing and stereolithographic modeling. The bitch was trying to actually getting them made.

... If I bought one from specwargear.com I would certainly contour the base to match that of the site. The one in the picture above just looks shoddy from both views. I'm used to holding +/- 0.003" on aluminum jobs like these and they missed it by 0.030" easy.

I have hundreds of dollars in mounts for this aplication.  I have built two of my own and modified a specwar optima mount.  If you made a better one I'd quikly throw this 4th one in the pile of dead mounts.  I don't think the spec war Docter mount is the be all end all.  It still does not have the pegs on top like we talked about you putting on yours and yes it does look a little sloppy.  Their web site says they have 12 in stock so who ever is making them is not doing it high volume.  If I were you I would not be discouraged -- I'd go ahead.

Is it just me, or does something look different (fake) about those ACOGs?   The finish and some other details just don't look right.  

Yep , they do.

Mine is going to be on my way tomorrow.

PP out

Yep,

NSN markings missing from the side. I guess the soft-air boys missed that detail.



While I have never handled one, I prefer the front mount also.

[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=161184[/url] [;)]

the lack of the orange O-rings under the adjustment caps also gives them away...

MM

black instead of the orange O-rings under the adjustment caps also gives them away...although it's always *possible* to replace them.  no 'trijicon ACOG' molded into right side of scope plus smooth screw heads instead of ones with 'ridges'.

MM

Apparently the TA31 and TA01 share some components, my TA01NSN's front end looks like it had the TA31 fiber optic housing milled away.  The real TA01NSN's body isn't as smooth as them fake ones.  Screw these guys, I'd never buy from them.

ok, i gave one of the specwargear optima mounts a try.  i actually know the specwargear guy - he's a real steel owner (notice i say 'owner' and not 'shooter'), and not an airsofter.  his intentions are good with this item (to offer something that there was a demand for) and i've never had any problems dealing with him.

now to the mount.  i agree that it'd be nice to have it match the mounting base contours, but that's just another operation that adds more cost. if it were made in quantity, i'd expect it to be more refined.  as it stands, i found no probs with machining/finish quality, but the problems arose with the fit.

it installed just fine on my NSN, but i noticed that it pointed upwards slightly, instead of level. when i stuck my optima on it, i ran out of elevation travel since the sight pointed up at a slight angle.  at first i thought that the bottom of the mount was contacting that center casting(?) 'ridge/seam' just above the ACOG body, so i relieved a channel on the bottom of the mount with a dremel.  it still pointed up with no contact, so examining it further, i noticed that the front inside part of the half 'ring' of the mount contacted the step on the scope between the 'depression' where the ghost ring sits and the body.  using the dremel again, i radiused the mount there, and after that, it sat level, and i was able to use the range of adjustment on the optima without further ado.
my having to do that brings up two questions:
1. was this mount designed/tried out on real ACOGs or the fake ones, which someone mentioned before, are 'smoother' than the real ones and may not have the casting seams/ridges found on the real body?
2. how consistent are non-critical physical features of the ACOG bodies (casting seams and such are of no functional concern and *may* not be ground down exactly the same)?

another thing that concerns me is the lack of the two round 'pins' that is found on the top of optima bases that locate the optima by interfacing with the holes on the underside of the sight and prevent any rotation/movement. given a knock, i'm wondering if the two screws that attach the sight to the mount are sufficent to hold zero.

i'd be interested in hearing from anyone who purchased the SWG mounts to see if they encountered similar issues.  i'll take that feedback back to SWG so they can correct it.

pinco, u got yours yet?

cheers,
MM

... Ah yes [b]militarymoron[/b], true to life story about suffering the ills of mechanical systems without an engineer looking at it prior to production.

... You'll notice features in these photos addressing your findings.

(1) Inside ghost ring cutout radiused to clear irregular surface.
(2) Relief machined in to clear flashing on ACOG, notice the female radii to reduce stress risers.
(3) Pin indexed to easily reposition zero.

[img]http://members.cox.net/stevenaz1/AC1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://members.cox.net/stevenaz1/AC2.jpg[/img]

hi winston,
ah, yes, that's the way it SHOULD be. very nice indeed. did you have that design made a while back, because i missed it (hadn't signed up here yet), otherwise i'd have bought one back then.  good attention to detail on the female radii.  i'm an aerospace/mechanical engineer myself and i probably would have missed that one until i dropped my rifle on the sight and the mount broke off :-)
oh well, sometimes you don't know until you try - live and learn right?  at least someone else may now be aware of the issues.
edited to add: the optima bases have a little piece of rubber to insulate the battery from the mount (not sure if it's shock or electrical isolation) - the bottom of the sight is also raised very slightly from the base.  are there any issues to mounting the sight directly to an aluminum/steel base with the battery in direct contact with it?  witout being raised, there's no space for anything but a piece of tape under the battery.

cheers and thanks,
MM

... Not produced yet, I made several nylon stereo lithography full scaled models, but still looking for a manufacturer that won't ream me too badly on an NC short run (aluminum). One of those models is still on my rifle with the Docter Optic attached and believe it or not works fine! (too bad it's white)




... Thanks, this simple stuff comes second nature anymore. Finite element analysis dictates its final configuration.



... No known requirement for a dielectric interface for the [u]Docter Optic[/u], I don't know about the Optima. Doesn't it have a magnetic positive center post surrounded by the ground?

Well Winston, when you go into production you can count me in as a customer.   Your design seems more thought out.  

I would hate to find out that the product I considered buying was designed to fit replica firearms rather than real ones!  [puke]

winston,

quick comment on your design - the single pin may not guarrantee return to zero as the two screw holes in the sight are loose tolerance enough that you'd lose your windage and cannot be counted on as a repeatability feature (on the Optima).

"magnetic positive center post surrounded by the ground" - what's that mean in moron terms? i'm mechanical, not an electrical. maybe someone who doesn't think it's magic everytime a light switch is flipped may be able to answer that. i'm lucky if i install batteries in the right way :-P  FWIW, it looks like it may be the other way around - ground being in the center (but really, i don't know).

kisara - the intention of SWG was to design for the real ACOG, whether that really happened is questionable (in my mind). but actually that kind of stuff goes on more than many people think.  some stuff is being sold for real weapons that are actually designed for airsoft. in fact, airsoft retailers get a lot of inquiries from real steel shooters asking whether airsoft accessories (like rail systems) will fit on real weapons, because they're cheaper.  i've even seen requests coming from police departments trying to save a couple of bucks!!!
personally, i'd NEVER put anything designed for airsoft on a real weapon - they may look the same, but that's where the similarity ends.  materials, tolerances etc are not up to real use IMHO. and sadly enough, some 'real steel' manufacturers aren't any better either. i compared my GG&G MAD to an ASA copy - the ASA copy was inexcusable.

cheers,
MM

Can the Dr Optic be mounted on the dovetail of the TA01nsn?

... I'll tell you what, when I get home I'll design one for you!

... I can concept it here, but I don't have an ACOG to get the interfacing dimensions off of.

Right on! That would be a great place to mount the optic.  Since the eye relief is so short on the TA01 transitioning to a red dot thats mounted a little further forward would be a little easier.

... I sincerely think you might be onto something here. In all fairness, I recall a board member suggesting something along those lines but I was "tunnel-visioned" on completing the one shown above. I'll get one CAD modeled, and make a funtional stereo-lithography 3D prototype and we'll kick around which one to machine.

MM,
not yet,
PP out

I Got mine.  I centered the windage and elevation adjustments on my Docter before I installed it.  Once mounted it was dead on without any adjustments!!!  A bit of luck I'm shure but it also speaks to the quality of manufacturing/engineering.