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Posted: 12/25/2005 10:22:13 PM EDT
I already know this is a dupe!
Dupe Nazi's can go to "you know where" and go "you know what" to themselves! Merry Christmas  Poll Incoming |
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Posted: 12/25/2005 10:24:55 PM EDT
[#1]
My A2 carbine is iron sight old school the other carbine flattop YHM railed uber-tactical has a EO
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Posted: 12/25/2005 10:26:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Both. I prefer optics, but irons are fun, and practicing with a BUIS is necessary.
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Posted: 12/25/2005 10:39:08 PM EDT
[#3]
both
i like optics for close in (red dots) and irons for long distances |
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Posted: 12/25/2005 10:54:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Both, this is ARFcom, after all
 WIZZO |
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Posted: 12/25/2005 11:30:46 PM EDT
[#5]
For most of my life, I was old school and shot with iron sights. Now that my eyesight is not as good, I prefer optical sights.
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Posted: 12/25/2005 11:37:30 PM EDT
[#6]
+1 |
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Posted: 12/26/2005 1:16:11 AM EDT
[#7]
I have identical uppers except one is a flat top with an ACOG on it and one is a regual top with A2 sights on it.
For work I use an ACOG |
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Posted: 12/26/2005 1:24:47 AM EDT
[#8]
Iron.
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Posted: 12/26/2005 1:26:13 AM EDT
[#9]
Iron sights only here. Mounting an optic on my carry handle doesnt work too well.
I'm sure in a future purchase I will get a flat-top so I can mount a scope...just not interested in it right now. I'd rather put the money toward other things. |
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Posted: 12/26/2005 2:39:49 AM EDT
[#10]
I used irons in the Army and loved em, only recently have I discovered there is a whole new world with optics. I still enjoy the irons but for practical purposes I don't use them, I spend my time learning about scoped shooting now and have them for my M4, SLR105 and NDM86.
I always thought I was a reasonable shot with the M16A2 because I could consistently fire expert with it, but when you can actually see your shot groups through a scope you realize that you have actually only learned the basics from the military...and suddenly it makes sense why they call it Basic Rifle Marksmanship  Z |
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Posted: 12/26/2005 3:03:32 AM EDT
[#11]
Both
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Posted: 12/26/2005 4:10:30 AM EDT
[#12]
TA11 satays mounted but at the range I practice with both the ACOG and irons.
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Posted: 12/26/2005 5:34:45 AM EDT
[#13]
I use both.The aimpoint is for night shooting and low light..irons for everything else.
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Posted: 12/26/2005 5:57:11 AM EDT
[#14]
Proper shooting technique yields iron sight groups that are hard to best with a scope.
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Posted: 12/26/2005 6:19:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Irons - Cause I'm too poor too afford a decent optic
Right now |
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Posted: 12/26/2005 6:20:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Well seeing as how I only have irons...
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Posted: 12/26/2005 7:14:45 AM EDT
[#17]
it all comes down to tshooting but you cant hit what you cant see, and optics allow faster shots on targets then irons this is being proven over and over again |
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Posted: 12/26/2005 7:24:54 AM EDT
[#18]
I prefer irons....though I have no issue with optics.....they can be a hell of a lot of fun.
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Posted: 12/26/2005 7:37:46 AM EDT
[#19]
Aimpoint for speed and CQB type stuff. Irons for distance.
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Posted: 12/26/2005 7:42:27 AM EDT
[#20]
SWO_daddy
Somebody drank the CMP Highpower Koolaid....  Amazing you don't see a lot of bench rest shooters using irons...  That statement is just plain wrong........ |
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Posted: 12/26/2005 7:44:23 AM EDT
[#21]
I use Irons
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Posted: 12/26/2005 10:01:34 AM EDT
[#22]
If you go back a read what I wrote again, you might notice that I didn't say that one can shoot the tightest groups with irons. I said that if one knows how, once can shoot groups that are very hard to beat with a scope.   Denis Demille's national record. Three ten-shot strings, 60 seconds or less each, from a sitting position. Do better with a scope, under similar conditions, and I'll pay attention. |
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Posted: 12/26/2005 10:36:27 AM EDT
[#23]
Optics mostly, but practice with irons fairly often.
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Posted: 12/26/2005 10:46:49 AM EDT
[#24]
Optics 90% of the time. I'll admit it.
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Posted: 12/26/2005 11:07:29 AM EDT
[#25]
If you're gonna use Palma sights, you might as well be using a scope. Do it with issue A2 sights and I'll pay attention. |
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Posted: 12/26/2005 12:06:14 PM EDT
[#26]
I like irons, for some reason I hate red dots, and I rarely ever use a scope.
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Posted: 12/26/2005 12:46:45 PM EDT
[#27]
optics, hands down
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Posted: 12/26/2005 1:04:51 PM EDT
[#28]
80% irons, 20% scope.
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Posted: 12/26/2005 1:14:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Better yet, give him time on a scope and what what happens. If you can't understand that a magnified target at distance results in higher abilities, there is something wrong. |
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Posted: 12/26/2005 2:12:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Irongs on my HK41, thats the way I trained with the G3 and it works well. I use the stock 1.5x optic on my Steyr AUG and like that better than any other sight Ive tried. Schmidt & Bender scopes on my 22 and big game rifles.
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Posted: 12/26/2005 2:13:47 PM EDT
[#31]
From SWO_daddy
Yea..like that's an Apple's to Apples Analogy..... That rifle stopped being an AR a lonnngggg time ago. and with Palma sights and match ammo with a Highmaster behind the trigger. I know you love Highpower(and I do to) and all your Hero's wear Creedmore Shooting hjackets but it's just one discipline. For the masses of AR shooters, they are going to be more accurate with optics that uses one point of reference and are very forgiving of lack of technique vs. Normal (read Rack grade) Irons sights that use 2 points to reference and are not very forgiving to any errors in sight picture. If you can argue that point then you have the buckles on your shooting jacket cinched up Waaayyyy to tight...
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Posted: 12/26/2005 2:22:54 PM EDT
[#32]
I can't say I disagree with anything except the part about that rifle "stopped being an AR a long time ago". It never was an AR. It's a bolt action TUBB 2000. Look closely at the bolt handle riding inside the buttstock tube. 
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Posted: 12/26/2005 3:23:34 PM EDT
[#33]
I thought this was an AR discussion, SWO_daddy. 95% Aimpoint and 5% BUIS or 19 out of 20 mags with Aimpoint. |
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Posted: 12/26/2005 3:26:01 PM EDT
[#34]
Other than annual qual, it is almost all RCO with the carbine.
Allot of time with the irons on the M9 though. |
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Posted: 12/26/2005 4:38:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Both...'cause its the ARFCOM way!
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Posted: 12/26/2005 6:29:24 PM EDT
[#36]
Originally from SWO_daddy
Ya got me their.... 
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Posted: 12/26/2005 7:55:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Irons are irons. They all work the same. |
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Posted: 12/26/2005 8:07:56 PM EDT
[#38]
If the bad guys sit long enough to shoot at them like that, than irons would be fine. Self Defense and combat "I think" are in a more fluid way. I've only used irons and traditional scopes, but I'm ramping up for an eothingy or red dot for HD and hunting and plinking. |
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Posted: 12/26/2005 10:33:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Glock Photee
 But seriously both irons and optics. Most of my rifles have irons and it' just good to stay proficient with irons. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 3:00:11 AM EDT
[#40]
Skill with irons is the steppingstone for optics. If you cant shoot well with irons, you cant shoot well with optics, though you may think you can. The DMR course has a significant portion shot with irons, or BUIS for the unfortunate.
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Posted: 12/27/2005 3:20:22 AM EDT
[#41]
That is because the POI for the course was designed by competition shooters, contrast the DMR/SAM-R course on the Marine side that is all optics because the GySgt who designed it came from the SS community. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 3:28:38 AM EDT
[#42]
yes...again...in the spirit of ARFcom
both Leapers T168 for when I feel like using optics day/night, and if I want to use my irons, I just move the AR up about an inch so I can look through my A2 ring and see my Trijicon tritium front sight post |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 3:43:21 AM EDT
[#43]
I use both but as I get older I find myself usinf optics more
 
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Posted: 12/27/2005 5:47:34 AM EDT
[#44]
I didn't put up those pics to show what is achievable under combat conditions. I did so to show the potential of the ultimate iron sight setup in the hands of an ultra skileld shooter. IIRC, WW2 was mostly a war of maneuver with lots of urban combat in Europe (kinds like Iraq now) and lots of jungle combat in the Pacific. Lots of enemy soldiers were put down by American GIs with nothing but a front blade/rear aperture sight in very fluid, tactically confusing engagements. Would WW2 GIs had loved to have an Aimpoint? Sure. Could they have been more effective? Sure. Did they get the job done in urban combat not much different than today? Yep. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 5:48:56 AM EDT
[#45]
Could it be that the use of irons for some portions of the Army SDM course is driven by the need to train with all sighting options available? Just asking. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 11:57:19 AM EDT
[#46]
Yes it could be, the assumption I guess is they know nothing and must start from scratch. Personally I think it is close to training someone to drive on NVG, yet most of the course is driving blackout without them. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 12:01:09 PM EDT
[#47]
WWII saw the majority of enemy wounds coming from HE, small arms fire was less than 10 percent of wounds and of that small percent most were caused by automatic weapon, crew served and BARs. So yes the old GIs slogged on without the optic sights, but that is only part of the equation. |
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Posted: 12/27/2005 12:05:45 PM EDT
[#48]
90% optics, 10% irons.
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Posted: 12/27/2005 12:25:16 PM EDT
[#49]
tag
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Posted: 12/27/2005 2:32:32 PM EDT
[#50]
So when am I going to see you at a highpower match, Pat? |
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