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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 7/11/2004 4:59:17 PM EST
I like going shooting, but it seems like I spend at least as much time as I spend shooting cleaning once I get home.

For example, today I went to the range and shot about 15 rnds of .223 out of my 700 PSS, then about 200 rounds of 7.62 x 39 out of the AK, and finally 100 rounds of 9mm out of the glock. I was there for about 1 1/2 hour Then I went home and spent about 30 min on the glock, 35 min on the AK and 20 min on the 700.

I sort of enjoy the time I spend cleaning (its moderately theraputic) but by the time I get done I feel like its enough of a pain that I don't want to go shooting again soon. It's probably due to the fact that I tend to be super anal about it and want to get every last bit of dirt off (somewhere along the line I became convinced me that my guns would dissolve from rust if it didn't).

So, here's the question: Do I spend too much time cleaning? I always clean the barrel on the 700, sometimes between shots (especially when I was breaking it in) but, at least with respect to the glock and AK, could they be cleaned oh say . . . every other trip? I mean, with the non corrosive ammo, will it really hurt anything?

What are your cleaning practices?
Link Posted: 7/11/2004 5:04:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/11/2004 5:32:06 PM EST
I run a bore snake with Hoppes#9 thru the barrel while its warm at the range and one with oil later.
Every now and then I clean the action and lube it.
My carry gun I keep a lot cleaner.
Link Posted: 7/11/2004 7:21:20 PM EST
SW

I'm right there with you I think I spend more time cleaning then shooting
But that doesn't spot me from going ever weekend
I think cleaning is a discipline type thing with me taught to me by my father ( the only right thing ever taught to me by him ) and grand father ( who always said if your going to do it do it right the first time ) and my favorate ( measure twice and cut once )

so the answer to your question is no I don't think you clean to much

But it seens like YOU think you clean to much
find a happy medium that works for you.

Drow
Link Posted: 7/12/2004 10:33:43 AM EST
SHESHHH! I spend at least 2 hours per gun. I limit it to 3 guns per shooting session because I spend to much time cleaning. I have sence learned that I do not have to get 100% of the metal fowling(which is what I spend most of my time cleaning on) out of the bore. Next cleaning session I hope to cut my cleaning time in half!
Link Posted: 7/12/2004 10:14:06 PM EST
Of course there is a point where the effort outweighs the benefit, but hell, if you really find cleaning theraputic...

Just go easy on the Sweets.
Link Posted: 7/13/2004 3:37:17 PM EST
My answer is: it depends.

After many years (and rifles of all types) in this game I've come to believe in the merits of barrel break-in procedure. I'm not yet convinced that the "fire one shot then clean" drill is necessary, but frequent cleaning early in the life of chrome-moly and stainless barrels yields accuracy and ease-of-cleaning dividends down-line. In other words, I don't think there's only one proper way to do this.

If you've put about 500 to 1000 rounds through a barrel and have compulsively cleaned (using good cleaning technique) it a number of times you've probably already noticed that each successive cleaning is getting easier. You've also probably noticed that you're getting better accuracy than the day the rifle was first fired. This is good. Win-win.

But at this point I've learned to be more comfortable increasing the rounds fired/cleaning interval..........takes alot of discipline...........maybe some nail-biting.......... But you may find that you can get as much as a tenfold increase in number of rounds fired/amount of time & effort needed to clean the barrel compared to the first few outings.

When the barrel starts to get shot out you'll see a deterioration in accuracy that compulsive cleaning will not help. Yeah, worn barrels may be harder to clean too but no amount of elbow grease will restore the accuracy they once enjoyed.

Sam
Link Posted: 7/14/2004 3:38:42 PM EST
I usually take at least 4-5 AR's to shoot, and we assembly line them. I can clean all in 30 min.
Link Posted: 7/14/2004 8:43:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
I usually take at least 4-5 AR's to shoot, and we assembly line them. I can clean all in 30 min.



DANG MAN!!!! That is fast!!!!! How do you possibily get all the crud out of 4-5 AR's in 30 minutes? Is that humanly possible? It takes me at least 1 hour per gun but I get every nuk and crany and every single piece of folwing out.
Link Posted: 7/16/2004 7:23:55 PM EST
Dear Swglock,

I usually spend more time per firearm than you do. Sometimes I select firearms to use at the range because they don't eject brass into the grass and their mechanisms require less effort to clean. I don't always enjoy recovering spent cases, but I do it to keep the range clean and to give the brass to friends who reload.

I agree, cleaning can be theraputic. It's also a good time to examine parts for wear & tear.

Your cleaning times and efforts seem "par for the course" to me.

Sincerely,
Craig
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 7:05:29 PM EST
I am very anal when I clean a gun and I can't stop myself, I have tried. As a result, it takes hours for me to clean a gun. I have since then just trained myself to clean only when the gun really needs it.

If you think about it, we clean guns for basically three reasons:

1. Prevent Corrosion
2. Retain Accuracy
3. Retain Reliability

If you are shooting a chrome-bored AR15 and using a good quality CLP like Breakfree or FP-10 in a non-desert (or marine) environment, you can go at a minimum of 500 rnds between cleanings before any issues arise. In my neck of the woods, I could probably go almost indefinately without breaking down my rifle to clean it. Just add CLP every so often to keep things running, wipe down the exterior of the rifle between outings to prevent corrosion. Copper doesn't build up in a broken-in chrome bore so accuracy isn't really an issue.

Well there is one additional reason to clean a gun:

4. Reduce Wear

If you think about it though, has anyone worn out a bolt carrier or upper receiver from lack of cleaning? I haven't heard of it.
Link Posted: 7/31/2004 3:16:41 PM EST
YES!
Link Posted: 7/31/2004 4:05:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By jason_h:
If you think about it, we clean guns for basically three reasons:

1. Prevent Corrosion
2. Retain Accuracy
3. Retain Reliability

....

4. Reduce Wear

If you think about it though, has anyone worn out a bolt carrier or upper receiver from lack of cleaning? I haven't heard of it.



Amen.

All you really need to do after 50 (or 350) rounds is wipe down the bolt, carrier, and interior of upper. Then punch the bore a few times with CLP.

Wipe down all small parts (firing pin, etc.) as well as the lower and innards.

That's it. Anything more is really neurotic.

(If you know what the sig pic of mine is, you know what maintenance standards experience I've got.)

These rifles really are damaged more by excessive cleaning, only becaue they really don't require the "white gloves" inspection cleaning that the military requires. They will function just as well, if no better, with lesser cleaning.

Corey
Link Posted: 8/1/2004 2:31:17 AM EST
If I spend more than 30 minutes on a firearm it's either extremely filthy or I've gotten distracted by something.
Link Posted: 8/1/2004 4:29:52 AM EST
You cleaned your AK
Link Posted: 8/2/2004 11:11:04 PM EST
i usually clean my ar every 1500-2000 rnds, thats it never more than that, and as far as my ak goes its seen over 10,000 rnds without a cleaning...i know it sounds lazy but i just dont think military rifles need to be cleaned as often...plus with my ak i wanna see how many rnds it will fire before jamming, it has yet to give me one problem and its a cheap sar1, but then again either has my ar, and all i ever shoot is wolf ammo in both, just my thoughts.hug.gif
Link Posted: 8/7/2004 2:16:53 PM EST
I think gun owners like us are obsessive compulsive and love a clean gun but it could be just me.
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 4:55:25 AM EST
swglock:

While cleaning can be 'therapy', there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Many people attempt to 'baby' their firearms with constant cleaning. While this is well meaning, it can often be more harmful than having a 'dirty' firearm. The real determinant here is cleaning methods.

There are countless numbers of firearms that have been harmed by overzealous cleaning. The term "barracks bore" often applies to these firearms: Repeated cleaning, especially from the muzzle (as was necessary with the M1 Garand for example) has cause more barrel wear and tear than shooting did. Ruined muzzle crowns, excessive wear, etc all result. Frequent assembly/disassembly canand will also accelerate wear and tear.

The other cleaning 'sin' is improper lubrication and/or too much lubrication. Well meaning shooters often overlube, trying to ensure everything is nice a slick. This excess lube accumulates dirt, lint, dust, and other crap, and turns into an abrasive pasty crud that is more harmful than a little honest dirt or regular wear.

I have longtime, very high round count competive shooters within my club. Two of them are or have been very very competitive ar Camp Perry. Their cleaning routines are remarkably lax. They are of the opinion that frequent disasembly and cleaning can be more harmful than a little bit of powder fouling. In addition, these guys NEVER shoot for record with a spotless rifle... These two guys have a minimum of about 25 years of shooting experience each and both regularly shoot a minimum of 5000 rounds each per year in AR's, 1911's and M14/M1A rifles. I'd conservatively guesstimate these two guys have something over 250,000 rounds down range. If a relaxed cleaning regimen works for them, it will work for you too.

If you want the keep them spotless for pride or therapy reasons, go fot it. Just do not be lead to believe that your firearm must be spotless. Learn to discriminate between a harmless little lint/dust/honest powder fouling and real crud. Keep critical surfaces appropriately lubed and free of the major junk and everything will run fine.

My cleaning practices vary with conditions. If it's been a decent day at the range, I shoot 'em then stick 'em back in the cabinet. If the weather was crappy, I clean them that day, not for dirt reasons but for moisture (corrosion) control. If I'm shooting relatively "clean" guns (Bolt rifles), I usually take care of them once a year. If they are 'dirty' guns (ie: a 500 round day with a revolver and cast lead bullets over Unique) I clean 'em right away because they are literally covered in crud.

If you do wish to maintain clean bores with minimal wear, get an Outers Foul Out. You can electrochemically remove copper or lead fouling with no bore wear. It's much much less harmful than aggressive brushing.

As for Glocks, AR's and the like, I simply pull the bolt and lightly brush the lugs, giving them a light lube (or pull the slide and give the rails/barrel lug surfaces a light brush lube). That works just fine until a higher round count is achieved (500+).

The only real exception is carry guns. I clean them, particularily the Glock 27, much more frequently. This is not because of fouling but rather because of lint. Concealed carry under clothing seems to drop all sorts of dust/lint/crud inside a Glock 27 (perhaps due to the opening in the bottom of the grip behind the mag and the relatively 'open' slide/rail interface). This is not a problem with a 1911.

After break in the 700 in .223 should easily go 200, 300 or more rounds before a cleaning (my Seven SS in 308 does, as does my 673 in .350). The AK is harder to pin down. It should go several hundred rounds ( and many many more) without a problem, but some cheap junk milsurp 7.62 is truly filthy and corrosive to boot. Its an ammunition depended function in this case. The Glock can go 300, 400 or more without a problem unless you are shooting cast lead, which is generally ill advised in a Glock.

Frozenny
Link Posted: 8/11/2004 7:36:46 AM EST
I usually shoot 500+ rounds a session several times a month so I clean every time. I don't give it a chance to build up. A clean rifel is a happy rifel.
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 5:26:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By swglock:
I like going shooting, but it seems like I spend at least as much time as I spend shooting cleaning once I get home.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I sort of enjoy the time I spend cleaning (its moderately theraputic) but by the time I get done I feel like its enough of a pain that I don't want to go shooting again soon.



I tend to get the same way with my reloading, while I know I can (and others do) punch out 500 rounds an hour, I prefer the meticulous, precise methods used by benchrest shooters, even while loading handgun ammo...After you spend an hour rolling up 100 "perfect" .45 acp you will be much more inclined to target practice instead of "go blasting"....Futhermore, I am often inclined to put these rounds up untill I have a nice stack of them.

I am still (after 18 yrs of shooting) learning proper firearm cleaning methods, but like you, after I decide to sit down and clean them, I tend to spit-shine every part possible...It is rewarding when I get to the range too, pulling out that beautifully cleaned, glossy, piece can only be compared to the feeling of pulling out a brand new one, only, you've spent many hours with this one, you operate it like an extention to your body, and you take pride in what you do.

Dont be too concerned with occasional shooters "burnout"...If you dont want to shoot this weekend, put some ammo up instead, it wont be long untill your dieing to go heat those barrels up again.

All in all, between cleaning and handloading, I bet I spend twice the time at home with my hobby as I do at the range, (even at the range we could start figuring time spend on my data cards) but it is a hobby, so it's okay to treat it as such.


~Crpdeth
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 11:51:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By twonami:
I think gun owners like us are obsessive compulsive and love a clean gun but it could be just me.



All about the fondling!
Link Posted: 8/13/2004 9:26:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lion_Dog:

Originally Posted By twonami:
I think gun owners like us are obsessive compulsive and love a clean gun but it could be just me.



All about the fondling!



Yeap I agree.
I spend more time cleaning my guns than I do shooting them.I work part time on saturdays(good discount) in the local gun shop and cant help rubbing on the guns there too.Even take my own FP-10 oiled cloth with me to use.Thats what happens to ya after 25 years of loving on guns.
Raymond
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 7:26:34 AM EST
If you suffer from a chronic cleaning fetish disease, you have picked the wrong weapon. Run, don't walk, to your nearest gun store and purchase a Ruger Old Army .44 cap and ball revolver, a tin of 310 caps, some .457 roundballs and 1 lb of FFFG. Soon you will experience cleaning nirvana!
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 11:33:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By jmart:
If you suffer from a chronic cleaning fetish disease, you have picked the wrong weapon. Run, don't walk, to your nearest gun store and purchase a Ruger Old Army .44 cap and ball revolver, a tin of 310 caps, some .457 roundballs and 1 lb of FFFG. Soon you will experience cleaning nirvana!



Already there man.Ive been shooting BP guns most of my life.Got a room full of mil-surps too that I shoot corrosive ammo in.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:43:02 AM EST
Sighs......I wish I only sat at the bench for 30-45 minutes! I shoot suppressed almost everytime and my God what mess it makes internally. But I suppose it makes it all better when I go shooting again......its so quiet!
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