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1/27/2021 11:01:57 PM
1/27/2021 12:46:26 AM
Posted: 3/15/2005 3:39:49 PM EST
I know ER Shaw makes the Colt barrels, but I heard that they also make the barrels for Model1. Can anyone verify if there is any truth to this? If so, why buy a Colt barrel??

It sounds like a rumor to me, can anyone tell me one way or the other with certainty?
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 3:46:51 PM EST
ER Shaw does not "make" colt barrels, I have heard that may suppply Colt with some barrel blanks.  Then Colt either does the work required or has it done by a sub to finish the blank into finished Colt spec'd barrels.  Colt barrels are also MP tested M1S barrels are not.  M1S barrels are 4140, Colt barrels are 4150.  Colt barrels are superior to M1S barrels.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 3:50:22 PM EST
Model  1 doesn't magnaflux or proof test their barrels. Also, I son't think they have anything that comes in 1/7 twist.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 3:54:26 PM EST
How often would you guess the MP testing catches an error or flaw in the barrel? 1 in 100? More? Less?
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 3:57:13 PM EST
I couldn't begin to make an edumacated guess, but it is labor intensive (I've magnafluxed Chevy heads before) and if they have stringent standards, they will end up throwing more barrels out, hence costing more than normal.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 3:59:16 PM EST

Quoted:
How often would you guess the MP testing catches an error or flaw in the barrel? 1 in 100? More? Less?


I could'nt even guess, all I know that a barrel or bolt that has been MP tested tells me I'm getting one of the highest quality parts I can get.  I like quality not quantity.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:00:37 PM EST
"Supplies barrel blanks" is the key phrase here with emphasis on barrel blanks.  The subsequent finish machining and QA/QC is what makes the barrel what it is.

There is a striking difference between Colt barrels and M1S barrels - 4150 vs. 4140 - not a big deal but it is a difference.  Makes you wonder if the above statement is true or not.  Food for thought.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:02:18 PM EST
I don't think that's right.

E.R. Shaw states on their website they use 4140 steel in their CM barrels.

Colt uses 4150 CM steel in their barrels.

So that doesn't jive.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:10:21 PM EST
Here's one example, my uncle worked for this company Nelson Precision Drilling right here in Glastonbury CT.  They did gundrilling on barrel blanks for Colt.  The barrel blanks and tooling were supplied by Colt, yes even the tooling!  Colt has specifically designed tooling and proceedures that were designed by Colt and they were to be used by their subcontractor, but my uncle did'nt know who supplied Colt with the blanks.  All this company did was do the gundrilling and then they went back to Colt.  So this is one example of a sub contractor doing work for Colt, not SHAW producing barrels for them.  That's just a bunch of crap.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:11:41 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:17:42 PM EST

Do Colt and Model1sales use the same barrel??  


Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:29:37 PM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:
How often would you guess the MP testing catches an error or flaw in the barrel? 1 in 100? More? Less?


I could'nt even guess, all I know that a barrel or bolt that has been MP tested tells me I'm getting one of the highest quality parts I can get.  I like quality not quantity.



I like quality too, but what you paying for that added quality seems rather high. Let's say that they throw out 1 out of 100 barrels due to flaws detected from MP testing. So you are buying a barrel with a 1% chance of not being faulty for how much more??

I am just thinking out loud so don't flame me. It's just something to think about.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:43:37 PM EST
Some one is buying that barrel that they throw out, also.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:44:49 PM EST

Quoted:
SomeModel one is buying that barrel that they throw out, also.



fixed that for you
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:49:36 PM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:
SomeModel one is buying that barrel that they throw out, also.



fixed that for you





I don't care who you are, that is funny, right there!!
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 10:56:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 11:02:33 PM EST
Colt farms out production to many suppliers. No one here can say 100% that ERshaw has never made a barrel built to colt specs for colt.

And I know the Colt whores love to get wet over MP testing, and Colts QC blah blah blah, but I've shot dozens of AR's and not one non-MP barrel has ever exploded and killed a shooter.

My current bushy has an MP barrel. Wow...and you know what, my best, most accurate  shooter to this day remians my non-MP 4160 SS Olympic barrel

Hell, Rock River puts out a damn fine rifle and they use pretty cheap 4140 steel barrels
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:00:52 AM EST
i have had a few ER shaw barrels..and whether they are colt or not...whatever...

both barrels i have had shoot straight and accurate.

Id LIKE to see a bench test between similar aged m4 profile bbls from ER, colt, and bushmaster...

just to see the difference.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 1:03:24 AM EST

Quoted:
Only a Colt barrel is a Colt barrel.



That pretty much wraps up this topic in one neat, little package.  If you have an ER Shaw barrel and it makes you feel better that you have something in common with a Colt barrel, more power to you.  The fact that it is an ER Shaw barrel tells you that is likely a very good barrel, but it hasn't gone through the same QA/QC as a Colt barrel - good, bad or indifferent.

I don't think that the average shooter would be able to tell the difference, anyway.  The reason QA/QC programs exist is to ensure that the materials will hold up in the most extreme of conditions, and only a very small fraction of people ever operate in these extreme conditions.  I know I don't.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 2:22:08 AM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:
Only a Colt barrel is a Colt barrel.



That pretty much wraps up this topic in one neat, little package.  If you have an ER Shaw barrel and it makes you feel better that you have something in common with a Colt barrel, more power to you.  The fact that it is an ER Shaw barrel tells you that is likely a very good barrel, but it hasn't gone through the same QA/QC as a Colt barrel - good, bad or indifferent.

I don't think that the average shooter would be able to tell the difference, anyway.  The reason QA/QC programs exist is to ensure that the materials will hold up in the most extreme of conditions, and only a very small fraction of people ever operate in these extreme conditions.  I know I don't.


Well said Mongo
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 3:26:15 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 3:51:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 3:54:35 AM EST

Quoted:
I also asked them what the big difference between 4140 and 4150 is. They said that as long as you are chrome lining the barrel there is ZERO difference between the two. If you are NOT chrome lining then the 4150 is the better steel.


C4



Now that makes alot of sense.  The steel is just a "container" for the hard chrome lining.  It never struck me that way, but that makes alot of sense.  
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 3:58:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 4:43:24 AM EST

Quoted:
Colt farms out production to many suppliers. No one here can say 100% that ERshaw has never made a barrel built to colt specs for colt.

And I know the Colt whores love to get wet over MP testing, and Colts QC blah blah blah, but I've shot dozens of AR's and not one non-MP barrel has ever exploded and killed a shooter.

My current bushy has an MP barrel. Wow...and you know what, my best, most accurate  shooter to this day remians my non-MP 4160 SS Olympic barrel

Hell, Rock River puts out a damn fine rifle and they use pretty cheap 4140 steel barrels


Wow, is it going to piss you off to know that chances are your MP marked Bushy barrel wasn't actually MP tested?

Bushmaster admitted in their own forum here that they only test sample barrels from each batch, yet that doesn't stop them from marking every barrel.


Signed,

A happy Colt whore
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 5:36:13 AM EST
I e-mailed ER Shaw and asked them do you make ar15 barrels.  That is the way I asked the question because I didn't want to pin them to a certain manufacture.  They responded back that they do not make any barrel for semi-auto, lever action, or pump.  90% of their barrels are for bolt action and the other 10% shotgun.  The reason I emailed this question was because I bought a Double Star and on the J&T website they say they use ER Shaw barrels??????? So how is that for confusion?
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 5:41:04 AM EST

Quoted:
I e-mailed ER Shaw and asked them do you make ar15 barrels.  That is the way I asked the question because I didn't want to pin them to a certain manufacture.  They responded back that they do not make any barrel for semi-auto, lever action, or pump.  90% of their barrels are for bolt action and the other 10% shotgun.  The reason I emailed this question was because I bought a Double Star and on the J&T website they say they use ER Shaw barrels??????? So how is that for confusion?



I believe I was at the ER Shaw booth at SHOT Show and they had a number of AR profile barrels on display.   I'm pretty sure it was ER Shaw.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 6:05:27 AM EST
Mongo I believe you, I just can't figure out why ER Shaw wouldn't admit it???  
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 6:10:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 6:14:34 AM EST
ER Shaw= Small Arms Manufacturing
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 9:04:06 AM EST
Whats this then?

Who makes the parts in your kits?
We use Shaw barrels (the same company that makes barrels for Colt), we also use military contractors to supply our parts. These manufacturers also make parts for other manufacturers such as Colt, Fabrique Nationale, and others

from

www.jtdistributing.com/faq.shtml
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 11:40:02 AM EST
Does anyone know what the reject rate is on Magnetic particle testing? From the definition it test for imperfections within a sample on either the surface or at shallow depths.  I dont see this being a big problem, as no barrel failures have been reported on this board due to imperfections.

I think sometimes, mountains are made out of mole hills.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 12:06:32 PM EST

The barrel blanks and tooling were supplied by Colt, yes even the tooling! Colt has specifically designed tooling and proceedures that were designed by Colt and they were to be used by their subcontractor,


Fairly common practise when dealing with the government, be it the military, FAA or NASA. The tooling will be submitted for government inspection and once the gov't signs off on it, that's what has to be used.

At the machine shop I worked for, we stored thousands of tools for Boeing that had to be re-certified for the FAA at least annually. Our inspectors were eventually certified by Boeing to inspect and certify the tools themselves. At that point, we became a government approved inspection station.  After that, we would build and certify tooling ourselves and mark it Boeing (or Air Force, or NASA) property. Our milling machines, hydraulic presses and lathes even had to sit on government approved, leveled, six foot thick, steel-reinforced concrete bases.

The inspectors would also drag our roll-aways off into inspection and certify all our measuring tools every year. We were expected to do our own inspections before submitting a part for first-article inspections. We used two foot thick, polished granite tables up to ten feet long for our own inspections.

Some of the parts for the B1-B did not have a hole, straight line or flat surface to orient the part. They had to be referenced to a point in space that wasn't even on the part. We had to build tooling that would orient the part to an XYZ co-ordinate in space that could be determined from a reference point on the tooling.

Some extrordinarily hi-tech hunting rifles were built on the night shift using leftover steel that was custom made for the Air Force. Once an order was completed, excess material (smaller pieces) was no longer certified for production and could be used to make tooling or just used for home projects with the shop owners permission.
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 8:25:51 PM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:
Colt farms out production to many suppliers. No one here can say 100% that ERshaw has never made a barrel built to colt specs for colt.

And I know the Colt whores love to get wet over MP testing, and Colts QC blah blah blah, but I've shot dozens of AR's and not one non-MP barrel has ever exploded and killed a shooter.

My current bushy has an MP barrel. Wow...and you know what, my best, most accurate  shooter to this day remians my non-MP 4160 SS Olympic barrel

Hell, Rock River puts out a damn fine rifle and they use pretty cheap 4140 steel barrels


Wow, is it going to piss you off to know that chances are your MP marked Bushy barrel wasn't actually MP tested?

Bushmaster admitted in their own forum here that they only test sample barrels from each batch, yet that doesn't stop them from marking every barrel.


Signed,

A happy Colt whore



Nah. Dont care
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 9:16:18 PM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Colt farms out production to many suppliers. No one here can say 100% that ERshaw has never made a barrel built to colt specs for colt.

And I know the Colt whores love to get wet over MP testing, and Colts QC blah blah blah, but I've shot dozens of AR's and not one non-MP barrel has ever exploded and killed a shooter.

My current bushy has an MP barrel. Wow...and you know what, my best, most accurate  shooter to this day remians my non-MP 4160 SS Olympic barrel

Hell, Rock River puts out a damn fine rifle and they use pretty cheap 4140 steel barrels


Wow, is it going to piss you off to know that chances are your MP marked Bushy barrel wasn't actually MP tested?

Bushmaster admitted in their own forum here that they only test sample barrels from each batch, yet that doesn't stop them from marking every barrel.


Signed,

A happy Colt whore



Nah. Dont care




BURN!!!!
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