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Posted: 3/15/2005 4:46:51 PM EDT
[#1]
ER Shaw does not "make" colt barrels, I have heard that may suppply Colt with some barrel blanks. Then Colt either does the work required or has it done by a sub to finish the blank into finished Colt spec'd barrels. Colt barrels are also MP tested M1S barrels are not. M1S barrels are 4140, Colt barrels are 4150. Colt barrels are superior to M1S barrels.
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Posted: 3/15/2005 4:50:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Model 1 doesn't magnaflux or proof test their barrels. Also, I son't think they have anything that comes in 1/7 twist.
WIZZO |
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Posted: 3/15/2005 4:54:26 PM EDT
[#3]
How often would you guess the MP testing catches an error or flaw in the barrel? 1 in 100? More? Less?
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Posted: 3/15/2005 4:57:13 PM EDT
[#4]
I couldn't begin to make an edumacated guess, but it is labor intensive (I've magnafluxed Chevy heads before) and if they have stringent standards, they will end up throwing more barrels out, hence costing more than normal.
WIZZO |
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Posted: 3/15/2005 4:59:16 PM EDT
[#5]
I could'nt even guess, all I know that a barrel or bolt that has been MP tested tells me I'm getting one of the highest quality parts I can get. I like quality not quantity. 
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Posted: 3/15/2005 5:00:37 PM EDT
[#6]
"Supplies barrel blanks" is the key phrase here with emphasis on barrel blanks. The subsequent finish machining and QA/QC is what makes the barrel what it is.
There is a striking difference between Colt barrels and M1S barrels - 4150 vs. 4140 - not a big deal but it is a difference. Makes you wonder if the above statement is true or not. Food for thought. |
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Posted: 3/15/2005 5:02:18 PM EDT
[#7]
I don't think that's right.
E.R. Shaw states on their website they use 4140 steel in their CM barrels. Colt uses 4150 CM steel in their barrels. So that doesn't jive. |
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Posted: 3/15/2005 5:10:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Here's one example, my uncle worked for this company Nelson Precision Drilling right here in Glastonbury CT. They did gundrilling on barrel blanks for Colt. The barrel blanks and tooling were supplied by Colt, yes even the tooling! Colt has specifically designed tooling and proceedures that were designed by Colt and they were to be used by their subcontractor, but my uncle did'nt know who supplied Colt with the blanks. All this company did was do the gundrilling and then they went back to Colt. So this is one example of a sub contractor doing work for Colt, not SHAW producing barrels for them. That's just a bunch of crap.
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Posted: 3/15/2005 5:11:41 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 3/15/2005 5:17:42 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 3/15/2005 5:29:37 PM EDT
[#11]
I like quality too, but what you paying for that added quality seems rather high. Let's say that they throw out 1 out of 100 barrels due to flaws detected from MP testing. So you are buying a barrel with a 1% chance of not being faulty for how much more?? I am just thinking out loud so don't flame me. It's just something to think about. |
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Posted: 3/15/2005 5:43:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Some one is buying that barrel that they throw out, also.
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Posted: 3/15/2005 5:44:49 PM EDT
[#13]
fixed that for you |
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Posted: 3/15/2005 5:49:36 PM EDT
[#14]
 I don't care who you are, that is funny, right there!! 
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Posted: 3/15/2005 11:56:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Before I throw my $.02 into the ring, I will first disclose my bias. We sell ERShaw barrels on a variety of different uppers, including 5.56NATO and 6.8SPC. Their performance has been absolutely phenomenal, and I could not be more pleased.
With that said, here is my $.02 (I hope it is worth that much) Only a Colt barrel is a Colt barrel. (period.) How can anyone prove that ERShaw “makes” Colt barrels? In this type of forum, it is almost impossible to completely prove anything. What would constitute proof ? Would someone need to post invoices from Small Arms Mfg (ERShaw) to Colt? How about a canceled check from Colt? Do we need to have a mpg of a Colt rep. meeting with a Shaw rep. ? How about a Shaw employee, posting info on product produced and delivered? How do we prove it’s not a forged invoice or a fake mpg or the employee posting is real or that they even know what the heck they are talking about? What would constitute proof they don’t? How do you prove a negative? My point is that in a forum like this all we can go by (for the most part) is second hand information. Since I have spent a lot of years in this industry, and spend most every single day talking with manufacturing suppliers for hours and hours, and have personal relationships with many, here is what I believe . . .but I warn you – I will not be able to prove any of it, and neither can anyone else in this thread. So take it for what you will. I believe ERShaw makes barrels for Colt. Do they make every barrel? --- I would really doubt it. Along with making barrels, could they have also at times supplied blanks? -- Probably. Why do I believe this . . . In enumerable dealings with various industry insiders, I have heard over and over and over and over again that ERShaw supplies barrels to Colt. I have heard numerous detailed stories about how many years it took ERShaw to actually provide Colt with the first barrel, because of union labor conflicts with Colt employees. I have heard numerous detailed stories of the increased production ERShaw was able to provide Colt. I have heard numerous detailed stories of how Colt supplies the 4150 to ERShaw, and the huge quantities they provide. I have heard numerous other details, which should not be disclosed in a public forum because of confidentiality agreements the companies surely have. I have heard these types of stories over and over and over again-- not by the folks at ERShaw, but by independent industry insiders without a vested interest in Colt or ERShaw. Also, I have read posts from HipFiredGun (who seems to have quite a lot of inside knowledge) about the relationship between the 2 companies, and how ERShaw is one of the few (only?) companies to have the entire set of Colt dies. (HFG – correct me if I did not state that accurately). I believe ERShaw makes some of the Colt barrels for the same reason I believe CMT does machining for Rock River Arms; because I have heard it over and over and over from industry professionals whose judgment and knowledge I trust, and have trusted for years. With that said, I go back to my original statement: Only a Colt barrel is a Colt barrel. |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 12:02:33 AM EDT
[#16]
Colt farms out production to many suppliers. No one here can say 100% that ERshaw has never made a barrel built to colt specs for colt.
And I know the Colt whores love to get wet over MP testing, and Colts QC blah blah blah, but I've shot dozens of AR's and not one non-MP barrel has ever exploded and killed a shooter. My current bushy has an MP barrel. Wow...and you know what, my best, most accurate shooter to this day remians my non-MP 4160 SS Olympic barrel Hell, Rock River puts out a damn fine rifle and they use pretty cheap 4140 steel barrels |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 1:00:52 AM EDT
[#17]
i have had a few ER shaw barrels..and whether they are colt or not...whatever...
both barrels i have had shoot straight and accurate. Id LIKE to see a bench test between similar aged m4 profile bbls from ER, colt, and bushmaster... just to see the difference. |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 2:03:24 AM EDT
[#18]
That pretty much wraps up this topic in one neat, little package. If you have an ER Shaw barrel and it makes you feel better that you have something in common with a Colt barrel, more power to you. The fact that it is an ER Shaw barrel tells you that is likely a very good barrel, but it hasn't gone through the same QA/QC as a Colt barrel - good, bad or indifferent. I don't think that the average shooter would be able to tell the difference, anyway. The reason QA/QC programs exist is to ensure that the materials will hold up in the most extreme of conditions, and only a very small fraction of people ever operate in these extreme conditions. I know I don't. |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 3:22:08 AM EDT
[#19]
Well said Mongo |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 4:26:15 AM EDT
[#20]
For me, the idea that ERShaw for years has made Colt barrels means that at the very least, they a capable company. And that is always a good place to start when looking for a supplier/manufacturer. |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 4:51:36 AM EDT
[#21]
I talked to ER Shaw last week about making barrels for me. They DO turn Colt barrels and DO use 4150 steel. The 4150 comes in on special order and the US Govt. requires them to track every ounce of it. After they are done, they send them off to Colt for the final touches (MP test, chrome lining, FSB installation and phosphate). So the answer is YES, ER SHAW DOES make Colt barrel, but they DO NOT finish them.
I also asked them what the big difference between 4140 and 4150 is. They said that as long as you are chrome lining the barrel there is ZERO difference between the two. If you are NOT chrome lining then the 4150 is the better steel. C4 |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 4:54:35 AM EDT
[#22]
Now that makes alot of sense. The steel is just a "container" for the hard chrome lining. It never struck me that way, but that makes alot of sense. |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 4:58:03 AM EDT
[#23]
Yes it does. C4 |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 5:43:24 AM EDT
[#24]
Wow, is it going to piss you off to know that chances are your MP marked Bushy barrel wasn't actually MP tested? Bushmaster admitted in their own forum here that they only test sample barrels from each batch, yet that doesn't stop them from marking every barrel. Signed, A happy Colt whore |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 6:36:13 AM EDT
[#25]
I e-mailed ER Shaw and asked them do you make ar15 barrels. That is the way I asked the question because I didn't want to pin them to a certain manufacture. They responded back that they do not make any barrel for semi-auto, lever action, or pump. 90% of their barrels are for bolt action and the other 10% shotgun. The reason I emailed this question was because I bought a Double Star and on the J&T website they say they use ER Shaw barrels??????? So how is that for confusion?
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Posted: 3/16/2005 6:41:04 AM EDT
[#26]
I believe I was at the ER Shaw booth at SHOT Show and they had a number of AR profile barrels on display. I'm pretty sure it was ER Shaw. 
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Posted: 3/16/2005 7:05:27 AM EDT
[#27]
Mongo I believe you, I just can't figure out why ER Shaw wouldn't admit it???
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Posted: 3/16/2005 7:10:02 AM EDT
[#28]
There are two diff. groups at ER SHAW. One group makes shotgun and rifle barrels and the other makes AR barrels. You might have gotten the group that makes the other barrels. C4 |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 7:14:34 AM EDT
[#29]
ER Shaw= Small Arms Manufacturing
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Posted: 3/16/2005 10:04:06 AM EDT
[#30]
Whats this then?
Who makes the parts in your kits? We use Shaw barrels (the same company that makes barrels for Colt), we also use military contractors to supply our parts. These manufacturers also make parts for other manufacturers such as Colt, Fabrique Nationale, and others from www.jtdistributing.com/faq.shtml |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 12:40:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Does anyone know what the reject rate is on Magnetic particle testing? From the definition it test for imperfections within a sample on either the surface or at shallow depths. I dont see this being a big problem, as no barrel failures have been reported on this board due to imperfections.
I think sometimes, mountains are made out of mole hills. |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 1:06:32 PM EDT
[#32]
Fairly common practise when dealing with the government, be it the military, FAA or NASA. The tooling will be submitted for government inspection and once the gov't signs off on it, that's what has to be used. At the machine shop I worked for, we stored thousands of tools for Boeing that had to be re-certified for the FAA at least annually. Our inspectors were eventually certified by Boeing to inspect and certify the tools themselves. At that point, we became a government approved inspection station. After that, we would build and certify tooling ourselves and mark it Boeing (or Air Force, or NASA) property. Our milling machines, hydraulic presses and lathes even had to sit on government approved, leveled, six foot thick, steel-reinforced concrete bases. The inspectors would also drag our roll-aways off into inspection and certify all our measuring tools every year. We were expected to do our own inspections before submitting a part for first-article inspections. We used two foot thick, polished granite tables up to ten feet long for our own inspections. Some of the parts for the B1-B did not have a hole, straight line or flat surface to orient the part. They had to be referenced to a point in space that wasn't even on the part. We had to build tooling that would orient the part to an XYZ co-ordinate in space that could be determined from a reference point on the tooling. Some extrordinarily hi-tech hunting rifles were built on the night shift using leftover steel that was custom made for the Air Force. Once an order was completed, excess material (smaller pieces) was no longer certified for production and could be used to make tooling or just used for home projects with the shop owners permission. |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 9:25:51 PM EDT
[#33]
Nah. Dont care |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 10:16:18 PM EDT
[#34]
BURN!!!! |
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