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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/7/2004 11:54:47 AM EST
Does wolf burn up more dirty in the rifle than other ammo? I have the new poly coat stuff and shot 500 rounds and it was a dirty freakin riflehock.gif. Is all ammo the same.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:08:30 PM EST
No...Wolf is dirtier then most, cheaper then most too.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:26:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 12:26:41 PM EST by Grunteled]
Very dirty stuff. I take out cakes of black shit after firing more than 200 rounds of it. Accuracy seems to degrade quickly due to all the fouling as well. No chrome in my current bore so the stuff is tough to get out.

Cheap as it gets though.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 2:59:56 PM EST
It is cheap shit ammo. What do you expect?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:10:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 3:11:49 PM EST by Gunbert]
I love the 'cakes of crap after 200 rounds' arguement!

I went to the range two weeks ago and put nearly 1500 rounds of the new polymer wolf through my M16 in about 3 hours. No cleaning was done at all, no added lubrication, nada. She was dirty when I cleaned her, but there was no heavy build up of crud, just the normal carbon buildup indicative of a direct impingement gas system. Wolf ain't super clean, but what do you want for cheap, reliable plinking ammo that is roughly half the price of 'better' fodder? And there's no such thing as a clean direct gas rifle, even with the really pricey stuff.



And the only time I had a failure was when I let someone else shoot some old wolf with the red sealant through it when she was really hot. That sealant was bad stuff, it's like loctite in the chamber! I would really suggest using the newer poly stuff, it's substantially better than past versions of this ammo.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:12:22 PM EST
New member here I have used Wolf in the past w/Mini-14 no problems Is an AR much more picky
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:56:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By MWallin:
New member here I have used Wolf in the past w/Mini-14 no problems Is an AR much more picky



They can be if they have a 'match' chamber. Otherwise you should be fine.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:45:10 PM EST
I have had no problems, just being real dirty
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 7:52:34 AM EST
Yes, no issues with the stuff I've used, but very dirty stuff.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:29:41 AM EST
I understand we all want more for less -But are we really getting more by buying Wolf?

My point is -why buy from a former Warsaw Pact nation(I still remember ) when we have our own firearm industry here in the US that is constantly under attack from the Left and needing your patronage. Not to mention a FAR BETTER product than anything Wolf makes.Now I am not rich by any definition of the word -but I feel better (and shoot better) sending my $$$ up to the Black Hills of South Dakota that to Mother Russia.

After all, the job you save may be your own .

Just a thought -not looking for a debate/flame-fest.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:19:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By PinPointOne:
I understand we all want more for less -But are we really getting more by buying Wolf?

My point is -why buy from a former Warsaw Pact nation(I still remember ) when we have our own firearm industry here in the US that is constantly under attack from the Left and needing your patronage. Not to mention a FAR BETTER product than anything Wolf makes.Now I am not rich by any definition of the word -but I feel better (and shoot better) sending my $$$ up to the Black Hills of South Dakota that to Mother Russia.

After all, the job you save may be your own .

Just a thought -not looking for a debate/flame-fest.




Why buy Japanese cars/ bikes? Why by computers with tech support in India? Why use an operating system developed by a CONVICTED felon?

1. Cause they're cheaper and work better. 2. Because most people don't build their own. 3. Most people aren't computer smart enough or care enough to realize there are alternatives.

So which one is it for Wolf ammo; it's cheaper, most people don't reload, and some people don't care that the high buck US made stuff is superior.

Also most of us realize that Wolf is plinking ammo and nothing more. I wouldn't rely on it for a self defense ammo, I've got a 3/8" thick steel plate with 4 holes from 100m using wolf and there's no difference in size from the front of the plate to the back.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 8:54:31 AM EST
the money you spend on Wolf doesnt go to russia. Wolf is a consortium of wester businessmen who have ammo factories in europe make product for the american market. as sub-contractors. the military centerfire stuff is made in russia because they were equipped too. while the .22 and shotgun ammo was made in germany. their 12ga target loads are a bit slow but their slug and buck rounds are the schizznit. plus i dont think i need to tell you how good their .22 is. many matches are won with Wolf .22
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:40:44 PM EST
Just finished a run of over 1,600+ rounds downrange with Wolf polymer coated ammo without cleaning or re-application of lube.

Did it just to see.

Yep it's filthy. Yep it took an extra 10 min. to scrape the bolt and carrier free of the charcoal like mung.

Was the ammo accurate at 100m? NO!

Was it reliable and safe? Yes.

Detrimental wear? none observed or measured.

Does filth matter for high volume 1-50m reactive practice, as long as the stuff is relaible? No.

Is Wolf my favorite? Heck no!!!

It is what it is.
It has it's Niche.

Politics be damned.
It's ammo in the hands of free Americans.

Used to hate Wolf.
Now I can tolerate the filthy stuff.

S-28

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:45:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By Gunbert:

Originally Posted By MWallin:
New member here I have used Wolf in the past w/Mini-14 no problems Is an AR much more picky



They can be if they have a 'match' chamber. Otherwise you should be fine.



Ok, newb says what is the difference between a "match" and a "regular" chamber?
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 12:23:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 1:14:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By twonami:

Originally Posted By Gunbert:

Originally Posted By MWallin:
New member here I have used Wolf in the past w/Mini-14 no problems Is an AR much more picky



They can be if they have a 'match' chamber. Otherwise you should be fine.



Ok, newb says what is the difference between a "match" and a "regular" chamber?



regualr (556)= loose = less accurate, more reliable (especially with cheap ammo)
match (223)= tight = more accurate, less reliable (especially with cheap ammo)

tight match 223 chambers provide more accuracy for match shooters, but the tighter tolerances play havok with reliability when using cheap or milsurp ammo...the looser tolerances of the regular 556 chambering makes for a more reliable weapon with a variety of ammo brands.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 1:20:36 AM EST
nationwide sez: "Fuckin Eh? Wolf ammo = Cheaper, then dirt???"






POSSIBLE RESPONSE:

YES / NO
OR WHAT?
GO AWAY
PLEASE COME BACK LATER (Bring PIE!!)
F*CK YOU, A$$HOLE
F*CK YOU



Link Posted: 9/10/2004 8:44:38 AM EST


Why spend an extra $100 for each case of ammo when you got so many things to buy this month?

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 9:36:15 PM EST
Hey all I'm brand spanking new to the forums here and also a new BM owner. I must just say that for cheap ammo that 62gr. green tip ammo from ammoman is a pretty good deal. It ends up being like 20 cents a round and it seems to be a decent shooter. Granted I only have been thru about 150 rounds of it. A guy I know chronoed Wolf the old formula and found that there were varying velocities with each round some were 3300 some were 2800. Also Ultramax makes some nice cheap ammo. Its like 30 bucks for 150 rnds of 55 gr. Still the green tips are by far the best bang for the buck that Ive found so far. Anyway I wanted to at least TRY to contribute.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 12:58:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Siglite:
It is cheap shit ammo. What do you expect?



That about sums it up.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 5:11:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By W-W:
No...Wolf is dirtier then most, cheaper then most too.



Aint that the truth!
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 3:12:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By S-28:
Just finished a run of over 1,600+ rounds downrange with Wolf polymer coated ammo without cleaning or re-application of lube.

Did it just to see.

Yep it's filthy. Yep it took an extra 10 min. to scrape the bolt and carrier free of the charcoal like mung.

Was the ammo accurate at 100m? NO!

Was it reliable and safe? Yes.

Detrimental wear? none observed or measured.

Does filth matter for high volume 1-50m reactive practice, as long as the stuff is relaible? No.

Is Wolf my favorite? Heck no!!!

It is what it is.
It has it's Niche.

Politics be damned.
It's ammo in the hands of free Americans.

Used to hate Wolf.
Now I can tolerate the filthy stuff.

S-28



___________________________________

Can I get an AMEN brothers!

I dont have any problems with it either. Used in ARs, Mini 14, AC556.

I've used tens of thousands of rounds of Wolf in several calibers without a single malfunction.

I'll buy it as long as its sold here in the US.

Most gun owners need to get over the "dirty ammo" thing and just clean their guns and stop whining about it.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 5:18:20 PM EST

Well, I was thinking about trying a few rounds of it, but the local range posted a note stating that you can't shoot Wolf ammo anymore... Funny how it made the "Not Allowed" list...

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:43:31 AM EST
its relieable plinking ammo, but I would still have some Black Hill or xm193 around for home defense use, if your into that. the other thing i noteiced shooting wolf (the new stuff) was the smell, it stinks alot more than the xm193, alot like ammonia, and that it was noticably weaker than the xm193. again, very dirty stuff as well, and if not stored right, the case can rust.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:35:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:06:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:

Originally Posted By djgolus:
Well, I was thinking about trying a few rounds of it, but the local range posted a note stating that you can't shoot Wolf ammo anymore... Funny how it made the "Not Allowed" list...




Probably just because it has a steel case. Your range most likely sells the brass from the gourd and doesn't feel like sorting out all the steel cases.

Just a thought.....



You might be correct there. I'll have to ask them the next time I visit.

Link Posted: 9/14/2004 6:03:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By djgolus:
Well, I was thinking about trying a few rounds of it, but the local range posted a note stating that you can't shoot Wolf ammo anymore... Funny how it made the "Not Allowed" list...



Thats just great...as if the Democrats aren't trying to put enough rules on us, this range has to add a few of their own. Glad there's more than one range where I live. They serve shooters, not the reverse. Now, it they would refund the difference in ammo price from their fees... They might have a deal.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 4:07:32 PM EST
yeah its dirty. just use a real cleaner like breakfree or FP-10 and you'll be good to go. i've shot a bunch of it no problem in my 1 of my ars and i just bought another case tonight.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:51:02 PM EST
I like the stuff. Took my cost for a weekend at the hun farm from $300 to 150.

And when I want to shoot accurate, I don't use the good stuff. I use my handloads.

Wold, goes bang everytime, in both of my ar's. I will continue to buy more. (After I use the 2k in my garage).

BTW, I have only used the polymer coated stuff.

TXL
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 6:05:26 AM EST
I was shooting Wolf at 50 yards in a 14.5" barrel and it seemed reasonably accurate. Once I moved out to 100 yards, it was all over the paper!

I then went to the 200 yard range with my scoped 20" BM...Whoa, does that stuff suck! I was getting 3" groups with BH 52gr match hollow point, 4" groups with SA battle pack and Q3131A, with Wolf I was getting 24" groups! Yick!

I will keep some Wolf on hand for close range blasting and plinking, but for anything over 50 yards, it doesn't cut it.

I miss the SA battle packs!
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 11:46:36 AM EST
WOW !!! 24inch groups - Ill be passing on the Wolf ammo,methinks.

Is that even considered a group?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 12:17:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:
Probably just because it has a steel case. Your range most likely sells the brass from the gourd and doesn't feel like sorting out all the steel cases.

Just a thought.....



Maybe... if thats the case, perhaps they should ask Santa for a big magnet from Northern Tool or something.

It's really pissing me off how ranges "ban" certain ammo for no apparent reason, and with no consistency. In dallas area alone:
One: no exposed lead, must be FMJ
another: no non-US military cartridges
Another: no FMJ, hollow points or softpoints only
most: (and this makes sense) armor peircing
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 12:49:15 PM EST
For what it's worth, I ran 1200 rounds of Wolf thru my Carbon 15 at Thunder Ranch. (If you go to TR for Urban Rifle, take a nice light AR--you'll really start to appreciate it about the third day.) Shortly thereafter, I started having failure to extract, and finally actually broke the extractor--twice. This was a gun that had never hiccupped previously. BM took it in, replaced the gas block & extractor and polished everything (chamber, bolt, carrier), and got it back to me in three days, no charge (yea, BM!!). The gun has run flawlessly since, albeit without Wolf. Be aware that before sending it in to BM, I had soaked and brushed the s**t out of the chamber with Butch's Bore Shine several times, but when the second extractor (again, supplied by BM) snapped, I gave up and sent it in.

So, I very nearly wrecked a really nice weapon with Wolf. My two cents? I wouldn't put an unopened box of Wolf ammo in the same room with any firearm I liked.

Link Posted: 9/24/2004 1:22:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By BeauPeep:
For what it's worth, I ran 1200 rounds of Wolf thru my Carbon 15 at Thunder Ranch. (If you go to TR for Urban Rifle, take a nice light AR--you'll really start to appreciate it about the third day.) Shortly thereafter, I started having failure to extract, and finally actually broke the extractor--twice. This was a gun that had never hiccupped previously. BM took it in, replaced the gas block & extractor and polished everything (chamber, bolt, carrier), and got it back to me in three days, no charge (yea, BM!!). The gun has run flawlessly since, albeit without Wolf. Be aware that before sending it in to BM, I had soaked and brushed the s**t out of the chamber with Butch's Bore Shine several times, but when the second extractor (again, supplied by BM) snapped, I gave up and sent it in.

So, I very nearly wrecked a really nice weapon with Wolf. My two cents? I wouldn't put an unopened box of Wolf ammo in the same room with any firearm I liked.




I understand.

An extracter costs about $4.00? $10?

The savings on a case of wolf vs other name brand? $50-$80

Math is easy for me.

TXL
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 1:49:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 1:52:22 PM EST by spikeofwoolsey]
I wont pay more than .08 cents per round for WOLF.............. .20 cents WOW, the dude must be shopping at Macy's. Saved enough to buy a new rifle or about 200 extractors.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 2:01:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:04:16 PM EST
Good or bad, new or old, I don't use wolf except in my AK. Had a bad experience with it and don't want to risk it again. It's all about personal preference. Is it worth it to me to save a little money shooting with a good AR that costs hard earned money? not to me.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 1:05:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By mkgunz:
Good or bad, new or old, I don't use wolf except in my AK. Had a bad experience with it and don't want to risk it again. It's all about personal preference. Is it worth it to me to save a little money shooting with a good AR that costs hard earned money? not to me.



A big +1 to that. Had a Wolf 223 blow off the back of a cartridge, taking like a quarter of the headstamped area off with it, and I got a blown 20 rounder, and powder burns all over my hands and arms. The Bushy had to be sent back for a new bolt, bolt carrier, and extractor. After that, I reload all my own .223 now. If you want cheap ammo and piece of mind, consider reloading.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 12:17:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:

Originally Posted By djgolus:
Well, I was thinking about trying a few rounds of it, but the local range posted a note stating that you can't shoot Wolf ammo anymore... Funny how it made the "Not Allowed" list...




Probably just because it has a steel case. Your range most likely sells the brass from the gourd and doesn't feel like sorting out all the steel cases.

Just a thought.....



So, shoot Silver Bear or Golden Bear. If my range ever pulled shit like that I'd be looking for another range. What a load of crap.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 9:16:34 PM EST
I haven't noticed Wolf being dirtier than any other ammo. Then again my cleaning regimen is a little more stringent than most people's. After each session it's cleaned and lubed. My advice to others concerned about protecting their firearms investment is they should give it a try. Also, if I may take a moment to attempt to dispel the rumor that steel case ammo can somehow destroy your AR. The type of mild steel used in Wolf ammo cartridges is increbibly soft. Is it harder than brass? Barely, and when I say barely I mean numerically insignificant in comparison for this application. Yor AR has -or should have- a hardened steel bolt carrier, bolt, extractor, barrel extension and barrel. These are the only parts that come in contact with your ammo. The magazine and empty shell deflector on the side of the upper excluded of course.

I would also like to take this opportunity to extend my condolences to those living in places where shooting at an "over regulated" range is the only option for shooting. God bless Texas!


"Happiness is a warm gun" -John Lennon

Link Posted: 9/29/2004 11:15:26 PM EST
beaupeep,

Ask Bushmaster to STOP using garbage CAST and non-MPI certified extractors that are full of obvious pores and voids before you damn the ammo.

Wolf ammo is underpowered,and inaccurate, but the shit does NOT have the capability to destroy an extractor due to pressure or case head expansion.

Worse yet to the Bushmaster argument, is that (And I am a Bushmaster guy!) they point ot he ammo as the root cause of the failure.

If the thing fails with underpowered ammo, what will a freaky/peaky Nato load do to it over time?

Mil-Spec my hairy Heinie!!!!!

Extractors are cheap.
Keep one on hand for use with lousy ammo, and another for "Social occaisions" if needed.

Damn Bushmaster for taking the "Easy out".

Have seen factory Bushy extractors fail with Factory L.E. ammo and they have stated the same.

It ain't the Wolf ammo.

S-28



Link Posted: 9/30/2004 11:04:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
the money you spend on Wolf doesnt go to russia. Wolf is a consortium of wester businessmen who have ammo factories in europe make product for the american market. as sub-contractors. the military centerfire stuff is made in russia because they were equipped too. while the .22 and shotgun ammo was made in germany. their 12ga target loads are a bit slow but their slug and buck rounds are the schizznit. plus i dont think i need to tell you how good their .22 is. many matches are won with Wolf .22



My Wolf .223 ammo says "Made In Russia".
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 11:33:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By bradcdavis00:

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
the money you spend on Wolf doesnt go to russia. Wolf is a consortium of wester businessmen who have ammo factories in europe make product for the american market. as sub-contractors. the military centerfire stuff is made in russia because they were equipped too. while the .22 and shotgun ammo was made in germany. their 12ga target loads are a bit slow but their slug and buck rounds are the schizznit. plus i dont think i need to tell you how good their .22 is. many matches are won with Wolf .22



My Wolf .223 ammo says "Made In Russia".




If you're trying to contradict what DvlDog posted, you need to read it again. Or maybe you're affirming what he posted?
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 3:11:10 PM EST
I put probably approx. 50-60 rounds of wolf through my cheapy 16" C.A.R. and left ifor a little over a month before I cleaned it. All of the patches I used came out a brilliant shade of cruddy rust orange. So I put a copper brush in there to scrape out some of the rust, but it just kept commnig. Moreover, the barrel is now junk and I get to shop for a new one! Unless you clean your bore immediately after you shoot, don't use it. There must be a corrosive element in that ammo somewhere. Don't learn the hard way.

HTH
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 7:44:38 AM EST
The corrosive agent in the ammo ate through the chrome plating in your barrel? YIKES!hock.gif I'm glad I've been cleaning mine regularly!


"Happiness is a warm gun" -John Lennon
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 7:26:11 PM EST
I did some 30 minute research on the great internet..

chrome moly steel alloy: the chromium provides steel with corrosion restiance, the molybdenum provides steel with high temperature strength.

So, a chrom-moly barrel is an alloy of iron, chromium and molybdenum, and is differant than a chrome plated barrel. olympic arms (i think) says they do this so you get the accuracy of a steel barrel, but with the corrosion restiance of chrome, cause chrome lowers accuracy. Sort like the 1:9 twist compromise most commerical barrles have. he
Also, smokeless ammo has hydrochloric acid in it and that will dissolve chromium very well. (did i get that right?)

"Chromemoly is a type steel that incorporates chrome right into the barrel metal itself. This barrel material is corrosion resistant, but not as much so as a stainless material. Using the 4140 chromemoly material allows us to give the consumer a barrel with similar benefits of a chrome lined barrel, but maintain consistencies in the bore that allow for superior accuracy." --forgot who

Chrome info:
http://www.finishing.com/285/86.html

http://www.goodfellow.com/csp/active/static/A/FE01.HTML

http://www.homemetalshopclub.org/news/may99/may99.html <- nice read about steel

Cleaning tips:
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/4653/corrcln.htm

http://www.cobs.com/lprgc/corrammo.htm

Diet & health:
http://www.nutritional-supplement-info.com/chromium.html
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 7:55:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 7:55:49 PM EST by Gunbert]

Originally Posted By Patriot223:
I put probably approx. 50-60 rounds of wolf through my cheapy 16" C.A.R. and left ifor a little over a month before I cleaned it. All of the patches I used came out a brilliant shade of cruddy rust orange. So I put a copper brush in there to scrape out some of the rust, but it just kept commnig. Moreover, the barrel is now junk and I get to shop for a new one! Unless you clean your bore immediately after you shoot, don't use it. There must be a corrosive element in that ammo somewhere. Don't learn the hard way.

HTH






It wasn't the ammo, it was the fact that you left a non-chrome barrel in a moist environment.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:16:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:19:08 PM EST
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