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Posted: 12/13/2003 3:18:50 PM EDT
I haven't opened all the boxes, but some rounds have a little flat spot on the neck, where the round was dinged.  Ammo-oracle says damage is typical, but sometimes unsafe?  A good round spins fine at the neck in my micrometer at .353, a damaged one will not, due to the dimensions being changed by impact.  Could this "stick" in my chamber?  I looked around a little but didn't find the chamber dimensions listed.  I'm sure there has to be some room for play.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

I can't imagine someone trying to load a mag in a hurry, and having to sort out the damaged rounds?
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 3:44:10 PM EDT
Unsafe?  The cartridge case will fire form itself to your chamber when it's fired.  Small dents are cosmetic, not functional.

-- Chuck
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 5:03:07 PM EDT
That makes sense, but in a tapered chamber, if the round doesn't seat properly it wouldn't be able to be fired?

Link Posted: 12/13/2003 6:50:34 PM EDT
Okay, tried to chamber a few dented ones.  They seemed to go in okay and were extracted fine.

One is almost oval shaped at the neck, with a visible dent right on the angle, and the other side was just mushed a little.

So Chuck, you are saying if it can be chambered it's fine?

I guess my problem is defining the "small dent."

Thanks!
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 7:24:06 PM EDT
Wildcat rounds are fire formed to the new chanbers.  

Minor dents should be o.k. and will fire form out to the chamber.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 8:50:14 PM EDT
[b]Fireforming is a common wildcat practice, as long as the round will fully chamber, there shouldn't be any problem.[/b]

Link Posted: 12/14/2003 7:25:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mn227:
Okay, tried to chamber a few dented ones.  They seemed to go in okay and were extracted fine.
View Quote

It's not a good practice to chamber rounds unless you intend on firing them downrange. It might be a good idea for you to absorb some good weapons orientation from some EXPERIENCED individuals as you might learn safely and correctly instead of from your OWN bad experiences. Not a slam but just a suggestion. Tools are better used when seeing others use them correctly.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 9:39:11 AM EDT
Thanks guys, but my question has still not been answered.

I'm looking for a guide on "acceptable deformity" in these cases.  If someone knows the chamber dimensions, that might help too.

Thanks for the safety tip, but those are better for when you KNOW my experience level, or when it actually applies to the thread.  Not a slam but just a suggestion :)
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 10:03:28 AM EDT
Easy, brass is a really soft material, dings are typically inward, so no case expansion has occurred so as to allow it not to readily drop into the chamber. Those inward dings will "iron out" up application of 45-52,000 psi in the chamber upon firing, fully supported by the barrel steel. If the case is too fat or oval in such a manner it wont fit the chamber, thats a different story, bolt energy may not be able to shove/form the case well enough into the chamber to allow bolt lock and firing to happen (remedial action drill needed).

If it really bothers you, go buy a "case gauge" and drop all your rounds, rather than feeding them into the rifle inside your residence.

I have fired many of those range pickups I find where the round has had the bolt lug "skid" the length of the case, leaving a long inward groove.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 10:21:02 AM EDT
Military cases will have these little dings all the time.  Military cases are specifically annealed (softened) in the neck area and little dents are very common.  They'll go down range just fine.

If you doubt this, or just want to experiment set all the little dented ones aside and load them into a marked magazine.  See how they shoot.  Assuming your rifle is in spec they'll be just fine.

-- Chuck
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 11:04:17 AM EDT
There are two safe ways to check whether a cartridge will fit in a chamber, you can check it in the rifle chamber [i]with the bolt removed[/i], or use a case guage, like these from Dillon:

[url]http://dillonprecision.com/template/p.cfm?maj=14&min=0&dyn=1&[/url]

Link Posted: 12/14/2003 4:18:35 PM EDT
The case gage is a good idea, but you may find a lot of 5.56mm ammo which won't fit in a minimum SAAMI chamber which thes replicate.  I've never tried one, though, so if you have I'd appreciate you checking some 5.56mm.

-- Chuck
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:29:53 PM EDT
LE Wilson gauge, box marked 223, been dropping 3131A and other for years, all fit fine.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 10:46:53 PM EDT
Could just remove the firing pin if your worried about such things.  As long as the rifle is pointed at something you can afford/handle being shot, the only downside would be the temporary loss of hearing and possibly alarming others that were in the vicinity.  Just simple physics, nothing to get bent out of shape about if you do the calcs beforehand.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 10:14:04 AM EDT
I recently ran 1000 rounds of '02:Lot030 through my PWA Commando.  There were quite a few dings on the cases but every one went bang without any feeding or extraction issues whatsoever.  I was told that the minor dings are merely cosmetic.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 10:21:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jason_h:
Could just remove the firing pin if your worried about such things.  As long as the rifle is pointed at something you can afford/handle being shot, the only downside would be the temporary loss of hearing and possibly alarming others that were in the vicinity.  Just simple physics, nothing to get bent out of shape about if you do the calcs beforehand.
View Quote


Exactly :)
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 6:27:29 PM EDT
I was an AF Munitions Inspector for many years.  Small shallow impressions or dishes (dings) are no problem.  Deep gouges (sharp angles, not a dish) should be discarded as the brass will be fatigued in that area.  You can tell the difference between a smooth boundary and a sharp boundary (the edge of the impression).  All this chat over such a small issue.  If it looks unsafe to you give it to a friend (or enemy).  I seriously doubt that you will find a real safety issue with LC ammo.

If you want some real sh!t ammo to make a comparison with, buy some of that Indian .308 Ammoman was selling.

MM
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 3:42:54 AM EDT
Enough already!  The more time you spend shooting your weapon and experimenting with ammo, the more familar you'll become with the type of ammo your weapon likes and what really bad ammo is.  As for a fews dings, if you're still worried about it, please send all of dinged ammo (especially LC) and I'll shoot it up for you. C'mon guys.  
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 9:46:33 AM EDT
It's more about the bigger dents on the neck, not anything at all that could be considered a "ding."  Sorry for my use of the incorrect word.

The chamber at the neck is .354, a typical LC round is about .353 at the neck.

I've had rounds that were smashed oval to .363 and still chambered and extracted fine.  Apparently the bolt has enough mass to "correct" these difference in dimension.

This was intended to be more of a technical thread than anything else.  If you found it boring or monotonous you didn't have to post :)

BTW guys, how tight should the lid on my ammo can be LOL!!!  Just kidding of course.
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